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Puzzled me since 2011, Sweden, Gotland, Hoburgen, oct 2011

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Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 22:49   #1
recreationalbirding
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Puzzled me since 2011, Sweden, Gotland, Hoburgen, oct 2011

Hey guys!

This one has puzzled me since 2011. Stumbled upon it today when I was transferring pics to a new computer. I lost lots of sleep over this one some years ago, and now - unfortunately - it came back into play. Can you help me so I can go to bed?

Photos taken from a moving car. Really poor pics. Im sorry.

Im going to take a shot here, so you can laugh a little maybe. Could it be a short eared owl? Would make sense given the location and time, but I could be veeeery wrong.

Any thought and ideas are welcome

I have more pics, of equally bad quality, but lets start with this one.
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Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 22:57   #2
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I'm more thinking Long-eared than Short-eared, but yes, an owl for sure.

Yep, do please add the other pics, every slightly different angle will help.
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Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 23:02   #3
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Thanks for your input! Ill attach a few more pics in a min!


Edit:

Attached another one now. Branches from the tree/bushes and rocks easily fools you with this pic. Looks like they are a part of the bird. Oh well. My photos today are better than this...

Edit #2: Attach two more. From this angle it doesn't seem like an owl, and a few times I thought this was a different bird. But it is not...

Edit #3: By the way. Im convinced it's an owl like you! So I do not question that at all. Just that these last two pics have made my mind wonder for a few years.
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Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 23:16   #4
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It's an Imm. Accipter....probably A.nisus.

Cheers

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Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 23:16   #5
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Looks like an Eagle Owl with that very flat rigid flight posture!
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Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 23:22   #6
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Oh man. I won't sleep tonight...
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Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 23:26   #7
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Attach one more here: Not 100% sharp :-p but I think there is some info to be found there in the v-positioned wings.
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Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 23:40   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recreationalbirding View Post
Attach one more here: Not 100% sharp :-p but I think there is some info to be found there in the v-positioned wings.
That last image is actually worse than anything I've ever put up

However...assuming that the image is of the same bird?....much warmer on the upperparts this does look more Owl like......
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Old Saturday 5th March 2016, 23:58   #9
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That last image is actually worse than anything I've ever put up

However...assuming that the image is of the same bird?....much warmer on the upperparts this does look more Owl like......
Haha! :-) Yeah, that last one left a little room for improvement. I just thought that, regardless of the photo quality, wing angle maybe could be of some help.

I realize that the pictures seem to be of different birds. And I have gotten peregrine and goshawk as ideas from very experienced birders, based by a few of the pics. However, a few other the pics, exclude pretty much anything but an owl.

But I have no memory what so ever of photographing any other bird at this occasion - and I have been thinking of this damn owl for almost 5 years now.

I checked data from the files, and pics were all taken at 10:45 (the same day, maybe I should add...). And to this post I attach the whole series where one can actually see that the bird is moving from right to left, and that the series makes sense given position of birds and the surroundings.

Come on now all you pros out there. Im just an amateur at this... I could use some help.

Actually Ive focused the last 4-5 years on photography instead of regular birding. Well, the reason should be obvious for anyone looking at photos in this thread.
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 03:18   #10
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Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
I'm more thinking Long-eared than Short-eared, but yes, an owl for sure.

Yep, do please add the other pics, every slightly different angle will help.
Not an owl. Accipiter, as Ken suggested. All the evidence is extant in these photos, I'd suggest. Sprawk seems the likely culprit IMHO...
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 03:19   #11
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It's an Imm. Accipter....probably A.nisus.

Cheers
Absolutely agree with this Ken...
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 06:22   #12
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It's a juvenile Goshawk. Pale, warm upperparts and buffish below.
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 06:57   #13
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It's a juvenile Goshawk. Pale, warm upperparts and buffish below.
My opinion too
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 07:51   #14
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My opinion too
I understand....that they sometimes can become a "confusion" species.
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 08:08   #15
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I understand....that they sometimes can become a "confusion" species.
Only when 'extant'.....

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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 08:41   #16
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Hi guys!

Thanks for all your input!

Phil, KGS, Ken, Andy and others. I respect your opinions very much! I don't post much here at BF, but read your valuable posts on a daily basis. Great stuff - really!

Please zoom in on the one that I attach to this post. Is this a goshawk? Or did you base the conclusion on the other pictures?

If I had posted only this picture, what would your thoughts be?

To me, this is not a goshawk. On the other hand, a few of the other pics pretty much looks like anything but an owl, and indeed looks very much like a goshawk.

So Im stuck with a series of pictures, of the same bird, that actually looks like it can not be of the same bird.

So before making too much fun over me... please take a look at all the pics.
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 08:50   #17
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With a belly like that!....If it's not a Goshawk, It's just eaten one

You'll need a "real" Goshawk expert for this one......Rother should be along shortly...He's had more Gos...than you have had hot dinners!
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 09:08   #18
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With a belly like that!....If it's not a Goshawk, It's just eaten one

You'll need a "real" Goshawk expert for this one......Rother should be along shortly...He's had more Gos...than you have had hot dinners!
Haha!

This is so sick. I really really hate not being able to figure things out. Its the worst of all feelings.

And one might ask: how the he** can I not see the difference between these two very different species in the field? Answer is that I started birding in fall of 2011. So observational skills at the time were poor. Do you remember the feeling? Using the bird guide to see if you've seen a blue tit or a great tit? Well, thats me in 2011. Also, I noticed the bird while driving. So the shots were taken from a moving car from a guy who just started his birding experience...

Edit: New theory!

To summarize:

1) All the technical stuff (series of all photos, times of photo according to file data etc) says this is the same bird. Still, anyone looking at the pictures, instantly see two different birds.

2) First pics in the series says that this is a goshawk.

3) Last pics in the series says this is an owl, or at least not a goshawk.

New theory:

Goshhawk in first pics. Scares a resting/sitting owl, that I manage to ta a few pics of. I do not notice this, because I'm a rookie birder driving a car while trying to observe. Its not a great theory. But maybe the best one? Because then there are two different birds. And that, to me and probably you, is what it looks like.

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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 09:13   #19
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I think all the pics look OK for Goshawk. I'm confident this is the correct ID. The Kestrel-like, fairly obvious contrast between coverts and flight-feathers occurring on some of these pics is not a typical feature, but a juvenile Goshawk is (on average) paler above than a Sparrowhawk.
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 09:31   #20
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I think all the pics look OK for Goshawk. I'm confident this is the correct ID. The Kestrel-like, fairly obvious contrast between coverts and flight-feathers occurring on some of these pics is not a typical feature, but a juvenile Goshawk is (on average) paler above than a Sparrowhawk.
Thank you KGS!

I just started to feel all warm and nice inside, given the new theory that backs up the thought of two different birds. That would make so much more sense to me.

Any more goshawk experts out there? Please look at the last pic in this thread. Could the "3" shape (not the number three, I mean the cupped shape) of the wings be a goshawk?
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 09:58   #21
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The last picture you posted shows a very long tail, far too long for any owl, on the other pictures you can see a heavy body (which would be better for Eagle Owl than Short-eared indeed), so alltogether Goshawks is by far the best call
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 10:20   #22
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Thank you for the awesome reads it was so cool
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 12:36   #23
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The last picture you posted shows a very long tail, far too long for any owl, on the other pictures you can see a heavy body (which would be better for Eagle Owl than Short-eared indeed), so alltogether Goshawks is by far the best call
Hi Tom!

Aha. I actually thought, maybe to back up the owl theory, that possibly it wasn't a tail, but a branch from the bushes behind. If its a tail it has a somewhat semi weird upwards bend. I also think that just in front of the head, there is a rock in the background, that could be interpreted as a part of the head. And if you exclude that - you could make a case for a flat owllike head. But then again. I could be wrong... these pics won't win any photo contests for sure.

Im not totally sure I can sleep just yet. Maybe because this thread has developed like earlier times (in other fora).

When showing some pics, most agrees its an owl. This is also what I thought when I saw it, but that argument is weak given my poor birding skills at the time. But I do remember it as very front heavy and bulky, flying slowly and erratically in a way that I've never seen any hawk fly before or after.

And then, when showing other pics for experienced birders, consensus is usually a goshawk.

And when showing them together, with the hypothesis that it is the same bird - most birders tend to scratch their head, and lean one way or the other, but without the same certainty.

But there are some seriously skilled birders here, who says that nothing, or at least not a lot - contradicts the goshawk theory for any of the pics. So I'll stick with that, at least until I find these pics again 5 years from now and decide to put them in a new forum :-)

Thanks a lot for quick replies and interesting ideas! Please keep the thread alive, if you get any more thought that contradict or verifies any of the ideas if this is the same bird or not, in the pics.
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 12:54   #24
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I just asked my wife about it.

Without very much hesitation, she was confident that that last pic - cropped and attached here - is not showing a bird, but instead two flying turtles, some how attached to each other.

Well. I can not immediately rule that alternative out.

She and I agree, however, that it is good that I have been trying to develop my photographing skills.
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Old Sunday 6th March 2016, 13:02   #25
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I just asked my wife about it.

Without very much hesitation, she was confident that that last pic - cropped and attached here - is not showing a bird, but instead two flying turtles, some how attached to each other.

Well. I can not immediately rule that alternative out.

She and I agree, however, that it is good that I have been trying to develop my photographing skills.
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