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Talk me out of Noctivids

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Old Thursday 10th January 2019, 19:24   #26
Mike F
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Wow, yall really are enablers, LOL. I'll tell you what, I prefer black but for that price (came out to $1900 USD) I'd take green. I added them to the cart but it seems they wont ship to US so I guess I'll have to find a deal like that in the US.
TX, I'm sorry about putting temptation in your way - I did at least think twice about it!

I'm rather tempted to those myself, but I already have a 10x42 NV 7x42 UVHD+ and a Trinovid (2012-15) 8x42, so it would be hard to justify. FWIW I will say that I agree with Chuck. The NV's are an improvement on the UV's (to my eye), but the 7x42 UV (at least) is a superb instrument in it's own right, and I quite believe him when he says that the difference between a NV and UV of the same magnification is really very small.

I hope you get the opportunity to satisfy your curiosity when a NV comes along at the right price.
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Old Friday 11th January 2019, 01:46   #27
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I don’t think $1,913.58 is a particularly aggressive price for used demos. Maybe a while back closer to the NVD’s release that was a great price, but perhaps not now. There was an excellent used pair advertised on this site for $1,675 for over a month, but then they were withdrawn.
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Old Friday 11th January 2019, 03:22   #28
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I donít think $1,913.58 is a particularly aggressive price for used demos. Maybe a while back closer to the NVDís release that was a great price, but perhaps not now. There was an excellent used pair advertised on this site for $1,675 for over a month, but then they were withdrawn.
Noted. Thanks
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Old Friday 11th January 2019, 08:42   #29
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I donít think $1,913.58 is a particularly aggressive price for used demos. Maybe a while back closer to the NVDís release that was a great price, but perhaps not now. There was an excellent used pair advertised on this site for $1,675 for over a month, but then they were withdrawn.
It may be different in the States, but in the UK at least I would have said that £1,500 for an ex-dem 8x42 NV is very good, and I don't personally think it's fair to compare the prices of ex-dem and used. They are not the same thing. Ex-dem items would have just be used in a shop with people doing little more than stepping outside to have a look, or at most at a stand at the Birdfair. They would come fully boxed with all the (probably unused) accessories and full paperwork and guarantee. Used can mean anything - outside in the field in any kind of weather, stuffed into a bag, dangling around someones neck while walking/climbing etc. Nothing at all wrong with buying used, but no surprise that an ex-dem bin would command a higher price.
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Old Friday 11th January 2019, 11:47   #30
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It may be different in the States, but in the UK at least I would have said that £1,500 for an ex-dem 8x42 NV is very good, and I don't personally think it's fair to compare the prices of ex-dem and used. They are not the same thing. Ex-dem items would have just be used in a shop with people doing little more than stepping outside to have a look, or at most at a stand at the Birdfair. They would come fully boxed with all the (probably unused) accessories and full paperwork and guarantee. Used can mean anything - outside in the field in any kind of weather, stuffed into a bag, dangling around someones neck while walking/climbing etc. Nothing at all wrong with buying used, but no surprise that an ex-dem bin would command a higher price.
Totally agree. Demo from a reputable dealer is like new. Used bins can have varying degrees of wear and you will need to ask questions about the condition and have good photos available.
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Old Friday 11th January 2019, 14:45   #31
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TX, I'm sorry about putting temptation in your way - I did at least think twice about it!

I'm rather tempted to those myself, but I already have a 10x42 NV 7x42 UVHD+ and a Trinovid (2012-15) 8x42, so it would be hard to justify. FWIW I will say that I agree with Chuck. The NV's are an improvement on the UV's (to my eye), but the 7x42 UV (at least) is a superb instrument in it's own right, and I quite believe him when he says that the difference between a NV and UV of the same magnification is really very small.

I hope you get the opportunity to satisfy your curiosity when a NV comes along at the right price.
Mike,
You are WELL COVERED in the selection for MOST birding situations!
Since you are a Leica man, it WOULD be hard for me to resist an UVHD+ 12X50! I've always wanted one but afraid of the ER.

So yesterday I did some birding/binocular comparing. I've been using this Meopta Meopro HD 8X42 that I REALLY like. Yesterday I took along a Leica UVHD+ 8X42 to compare. One thing that really stands out about the UV that will never be said about the Noctivid...ERGONOMICALLY EXCELLENT! Sure one can learn to love the Noctivid. It can become second nature if that's what you use and use it for a while. The UVHD+ is INSTANTLY excellent. That big 'ol wide focus on it is in the perfect place. The SIZE of it just fills your hand. I hadn't used the UVHD+ in a while but it's easy to see why it a favorite. Mercy what a nice binocular....a 7X42, even better!
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Old Friday 11th January 2019, 16:57   #32
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Mike,
You are WELL COVERED in the selection for MOST birding situations!
Since you are a Leica man, it WOULD be hard for me to resist an UVHD+ 12X50! I've always wanted one but afraid of the ER.

So yesterday I did some birding/binocular comparing. I've been using this Meopta Meopro HD 8X42 that I REALLY like. Yesterday I took along a Leica UVHD+ 8X42 to compare. One thing that really stands out about the UV that will never be said about the Noctivid...ERGONOMICALLY EXCELLENT! Sure one can learn to love the Noctivid. It can become second nature if that's what you use and use it for a while. The UVHD+ is INSTANTLY excellent. That big 'ol wide focus on it is in the perfect place. The SIZE of it just fills your hand. I hadn't used the UVHD+ in a while but it's easy to see why it a favorite. Mercy what a nice binocular....a 7X42, even better!
Chuck, did you really have to say that?!

We talked about the virtues of the 12x50 UVHD+ via pm several months ago (before last summer I think) and I've been agonising, on and off, about whether to pull the trigger since then. I'd finally managed to convince myself that I didn't need them and, more importantly, didn't want them, and then you had to say that. Thanks buddy! So, the tempter has become the tempted...........!

.......... so much so that I've just placed an order! Oh boy, this is an expensive place to be..........

I totally agree with you about the UV's vs the NV's ergonomics. Yes, the NV is just fine and feels very comfortable when you adjust, but there's simply no adjustment needed with the UV's. Same for the Trinovid of course.

PS. I'm actually quite glad that you finally tipped me over the edge regarding the 12x50's!

PPS. Perhaps I should start another thread entitled ‘Talk me out of the 12x50 UV’s’!

Last edited by Mike F : Saturday 12th January 2019 at 02:02.
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Old Saturday 12th January 2019, 03:49   #33
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Chuck, did you really have to say that?!

We talked about the virtues of the 12x50 UVHD+ via pm several months ago (before last summer I think) and I've been agonising, on and off, about whether to pull the trigger since then. I'd finally managed to convince myself that I didn't need them and, more importantly, didn't want them, and then you had to say that. Thanks buddy! So, the tempter has become the tempted...........!

.......... so much so that I've just placed an order! Oh boy, this is an expensive place to be..........

I totally agree with you about the UV's vs the NV's ergonomics. Yes, the NV is just fine and feels very comfortable when you adjust, but there's simply no adjustment needed with the UV's. Same for the Trinovid of course.

PS. I'm actually quite glad that you finally tipped me over the edge regarding the 12x50's!

PPS. Perhaps I should start another thread entitled ĎTalk me out of the 12x50 UVísí!
HEHE! I think this is GREAT!

I'm looking forward to hear what you think of those! I especially want to hear about the ER....
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Old Saturday 12th January 2019, 09:07   #34
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HEHE! I think this is GREAT!

I'm looking forward to hear what you think of those! I especially want to hear about the ER....
Chuck, I will certainly give you a full report! The ER is of interest to me as well. Although I wear glasses most of the time I generally prefer to use binoculars without them, so ER isn't necessarily too important. However, although my acuity with glasses is around or better than 20/12.5 (slight difference L to R) and I manage with binoculars very well without them, I'm 55 and I realise that my eyesight is probably going to deteriorate to the point where I need to use glasses to enjoy binoculars to the full. I'll certainly bear this in mind when I'm deciding whether to keep or return them if the ER is too short for me when wearing glasses.
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Old Saturday 12th January 2019, 13:18   #35
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The UV HD 12X50 has less eye relief than stated, and confirmed by Roger Vine on Scopeviews. I do not wear glasses and to me the ER is at the bare minimum, if one wants to see the entire FOV it is not a glass for someone who wears glasses. However, ER aside I do like the immersive views much like the UV 10X50.

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Old Saturday 12th January 2019, 13:36   #36
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Andy, thanks for that insight. I’ve seen pictures of the 12x50 UV (and the 8 and 10x) with what appear to be eyecups of differing lengths (or depths). Most of the pictures that I’ve seen of the 12x50 seem to have the deeper eyecups, which would make ER worse, and the 10x50’s I’ve seen appear to have the shorter eyecups. Do you know if there are indeed differing eyecup lengths (or depths) for the 50 mm UV’s or is it just an illusion of the photographs that I’ve seen?

Lee, sorry if I’ve hijacked this thread! Please move the last few posts to another new thread if you see fit!

Last edited by Mike F : Saturday 12th January 2019 at 13:40.
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Old Saturday 12th January 2019, 20:09   #37
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Yíall talked me into Noctivid. Itís not a matter of IF anymore, itís WHEN the right price comes along. So....

Ya man, you should definitely do it! Buy it! Life is too short not to. (Haha, not so fun when the rabbit got the gun).
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Old Saturday 12th January 2019, 21:28   #38
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Andy, thanks for that insight. Iíve seen pictures of the 12x50 UV (and the 8 and 10x) with what appear to be eyecups of differing lengths (or depths). Most of the pictures that Iíve seen of the 12x50 seem to have the deeper eyecups, which would make ER worse, and the 10x50ís Iíve seen appear to have the shorter eyecups. Do you know if there are indeed differing eyecup lengths (or depths) for the 50 mm UVís or is it just an illusion of the photographs that Iíve seen?

Lee, sorry if Iíve hijacked this thread! Please move the last few posts to another new thread if you see fit!
Measured eye-reliefs here:
http://www.tvwg.nl/testrapporten/kij...ravid-hd.shtml
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Old Sunday 13th January 2019, 11:52   #39
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Goudvink, thanks for that! I've been looking at the ER issue more carefully and I've decided, sadly, to cancel my order for the 12x50 UV.

Checking the bins I have I've realised that the stated 13mm of the 12x50 UV won't be enough for me, even if it is 13mm and not just 11.5mm, as measured in the above test.

The Trinovid 8x42 (40008) has 15.5mm (according to Leica) and that is just enough for me (if I push my glasses to my face with the eyecups). My Trinovid 10x25 BCA's have 14.6mm according to Leica (although the specs on the Leica Mayfair store state 13.7mm) and that is not enough, so the stated 13mm of the 12x50 UV will definitely not be sufficient for me.

As I said before, I often choose to use my bins without eyeglasses, but in order to get the best out of them I need to use glasses these days so it really makes no sense to drop 2Kish on a bin without enough ER. It's a shame, but there it is.... sorry Chuck!

Back, then, to finding a pair of Noctivids at a good price for TX!

Last edited by Mike F : Sunday 13th January 2019 at 13:03.
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Old Sunday 13th January 2019, 16:51   #40
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So, looking around it seems there arenít many used Noctivids in 8x42. Its ok as Iím not in a super hurry to part with my money. Theyíre awful proud of the new ones. It seems no one is advertising deals on Leica and Swaro. Looks like they have controlled pricing. This strikes me as there are discounts to be found on Zeiss. I can get a new SF from a dealer for under $2300 and I didnít look that hard.
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Old Sunday 13th January 2019, 16:56   #41
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As I said before, I often choose to use my bins without eyeglasses, but in order to get the best out of them I need to use glasses these days so it really makes no sense to drop 2Kish on a bin without enough ER. It's a shame, but there it is.... sorry Chuck!
That was EXACTLY the reason I passed on the Leica 12X50 and went with the SV 12X50. It was a good decision. BARELY larger than a 42mm SV and very similar size to a SF 8X42. The SV 12X50 has proved itself to be the before companion to a nice 7X or 8X.
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Old Sunday 13th January 2019, 17:15   #42
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Chuck, the SV is certainly very highly regarded it seems. As a matter of interest, are you just using your 12x50’s for birding, and can you hand hold them?
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Old Monday 14th January 2019, 17:06   #43
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. Well, I did it, ordered from Doug today. I guess patience isn't my strong suit.
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Old Monday 14th January 2019, 18:42   #44
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. Well, I did it, ordered from Doug today. I guess patience isn't my strong suit.
Fantastic! 8x or 10x? Let us know what you think when you get them!
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Old Monday 14th January 2019, 19:12   #45
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Fantastic! 8x or 10x? Let us know what you think when you get them!
8x42. I have found I prefer 8x for general use. Doug said he his headed to SHOT show and he would send them out in a week. Will report back.

Total impulse buy, didn't get the deal I was looking for but I don't feel I got took either. Plus, they'll be new and from authorized dealer, so there's that.

Last edited by TXdefender : Monday 14th January 2019 at 19:17.
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Old Monday 14th January 2019, 20:06   #46
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8x42. I have found I prefer 8x for general use. Doug said he his headed to SHOT show and he would send them out in a week. Will report back.

Total impulse buy, didn't get the deal I was looking for but I don't feel I got took either. Plus, they'll be new and from authorized dealer, so there's that.
It's only money! Whatever you pay there's always a better deal later on. Just forget about it and enjoy them!
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Old Monday 14th January 2019, 20:18   #47
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That has been my experience. The initial sting of the investment hurts but long after that sting has worn off the joy of years of use remains. My SV's are almost 10yrs old now and I forgot what I paid but it wasn't cheap. They are still nice to use. In fact I may have found the problem with my 8.5's, operator error. I was checking out two blue jay's giving a squirrel a hard time when I decided to rotate the eyecups in one position from fully extended. The view became a bit more pleasing to me. I don't intend to sell them, yet. Just supplement with Noctivids.

PS. my father still has and uses Trinovid's from the 90's so they last a good while, though he could stand to replace the folding eyecups (the rubber is old and cracked).
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