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Species pronunciation

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Old Monday 29th May 2017, 12:45   #1
pshute
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Species pronunciation

Can anyone tell me if there's an online guide to pronunciation of scientific names for bat species?

[Edit: apologies for the incorrect spelling in the thread subject.]

Last edited by pshute : Monday 29th May 2017 at 21:34.
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Old Monday 29th May 2017, 17:24   #2
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Not heard of any specifically for bats, but just use a general one for Classical Latin and you won't go wrong - the sounds you use in Latin follow well-established rules so are predictable

The ones that get forgotten most often are (1) 'c' in Latin is always a hard 'k' sound, and (2) 'v' in Latin is pronounced like 'w' in English. Another common error is that -ae- is like 'ee', but correctly more like 'eye'.
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Old Monday 29th May 2017, 19:20   #3
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Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
Not heard of any specifically for bats, but just use a general one for Classical Latin and you won't go wrong - the sounds you use in Latin follow well-established rules so are predictable

The ones that get forgotten most often are (1) 'c' in Latin is always a hard 'k' sound, and (2) 'v' in Latin is pronounced like 'w' in English. Another common error is that -ae- is like 'ee', but correctly more like 'eye'.
Not forgetting 'oe' = 'oy!'. It always irritates me when choirs sing the word 'coeli' as 'chellee' in Faure's Requiem and others.

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Old Monday 29th May 2017, 19:25   #4
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I'd like to pronounce them like "everyone else", and I suspect all three rules you quote would raise eyebrows in a lot of places. According to this page, English pronunciation of scientific names varies quite a bit from Classical Latin:
http://courses.washington.edu/ehuf46...ical_latin.pdf

It's a pity it can vary from country to country, but that's the way it is, and I'm not going to push the Classical Latin line. I'm in Australia, I assume pronunciation is at least similar in the UK and USA?

It's the stress position I'm most interested in learning. The rules described on that pages are quite complex, and I think a simple reference list would be more useful.

As an example, how would one say Chalinolobus gouldii?
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Old Monday 29th May 2017, 20:34   #5
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Originally Posted by pshute View Post
I'd like to pronounce them like "everyone else", and I suspect all three rules you quote would raise eyebrows in a lot of places. According to this page, English pronunciation of scientific names varies quite a bit from Classical Latin:
http://courses.washington.edu/ehuf46...ical_latin.pdf

It's a pity it can vary from country to country, but that's the way it is, and I'm not going to push the Classical Latin line. I'm in Australia, I assume pronunciation is at least similar in the UK and USA?

It's the stress position I'm most interested in learning. The rules described on that pages are quite complex, and I think a simple reference list would be more useful.

As an example, how would one say Chalinolobus gouldii?
Ooh, you're going down a rocky road there! I'm neither a linguist nor a scientist but I'd wager that UK and USA stress positions of your example would differ as follows (prepares to get shot down in flames....):
UK: cha-li-NOL-o-bus
USA: cha-li-no-LO-bus

All good fun
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Old Monday 29th May 2017, 21:33   #6
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Species pronunciation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Prior View Post
Ooh, you're going down a rocky road there! I'm neither a linguist nor a scientist but I'd wager that UK and USA stress positions of your example would differ as follows (prepares to get shot down in flames....):
UK: cha-li-NOL-o-bus
USA: cha-li-no-LO-bus

All good fun
Would it not be Ka-li-etc?

I can't believe I misspelled "pronunciation" in the title of this thread, especially in the way that I have. Looks like I can't edit that. Hope it doesn't attract the wrong types.
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Old Monday 29th May 2017, 22:17   #7
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Would it not be Ka-li-etc?
Yep. Or more accurately, Kha-li-etc., as it is from Greek χ

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Originally Posted by pshute View Post
I can't believe I misspelled "pronunciation" in the title of this thread, especially in the way that I have. Looks like I can't edit that.
Drop a note to the moderators, and they'll correct it for you.
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Old Monday 29th May 2017, 22:20   #8
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I can't believe I misspelled "pronunciation" in the title of this thread, especially in the way that I have. Looks like I can't edit that. Hope it doesn't attract the wrong types.
Already corrected
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Old Tuesday 30th May 2017, 02:38   #9
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Already corrected
Thanks!
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Old Tuesday 30th May 2017, 02:59   #10
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I found this pdf file, which seems to have the Australian species I'm interested in:
http://www.ozarkwild.org/manuals/Ins...us_Bats_JS.pdf

For Chalinolobus gouldii, it advises kah’-lin-oh-lobe’-us gule’-dee-ee. I would have thought gule-dee-eye, but maybe those are common variations. It's a difference that doesn't render one's pronunciations unintelligible.
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Old Tuesday 30th May 2017, 09:47   #11
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Originally Posted by RecoveringScot View Post
Not forgetting 'oe' = 'oy!'. It always irritates me when choirs sing the word 'coeli' as 'chellee' in Faure's Requiem and others.
Sorry to sidetrack this thread but ... There is a perfectly good reason for 'chaylee' etc. Latin in sacred choral music is always pronounced in the manner of 'Church Latin', for which the basic rule is 'get as close to Italian as you can'.
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Old Tuesday 30th May 2017, 10:24   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
The ones that get forgotten most often are (1) 'c' in Latin is always a hard 'k' sound
This statement really got me confused, as I believed the sound of c was dependent on the vowel after, just like in spanish and other romanian languages. However I've never learnt proper latin, pretty much all my latin skills come from scientific names.
So I googled and came across this site, which I believe might be helpful for this thread too.

Now if I understand correctly the correct pronounciations are
Sylvia konspichillata (Sylvia conspicillata)
Kotchyzus amerikanus (Coccyzus americanus)
Aquila fashiata (Aquila fasciata)
Larus djenei (Larus genei)

My favourite has to be Catharus fusheshens. Shounds like Shean Connery.

Did I get it right?

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Old Tuesday 30th May 2017, 12:00   #13
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pshute, I guess you can see already that there is no universally agreed 'correct' way to pronounce scientific names. Arguments vary from nutcracker's advocation of classical Latin to those in the sources quoted above. As you say, 'when in Oz do as Ozzies do', whatever that is. (I remember a recent thread on which one of our Dutch friends - may have been xenospiza - was VERY scathing about the way most British and Irish birders go about it.)
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Old Tuesday 30th May 2017, 12:55   #14
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Originally Posted by Maffong View Post
This statement really got me confused, as I believed the sound of c was dependent on the vowel after, just like in spanish and other romanian languages. However I've never learnt proper latin, pretty much all my latin skills come from scientific names.
So I googled and came across this site, which I believe might be helpful for this thread too.

Now if I understand correctly the correct pronounciations are
Sylvia konspichillata (Sylvia conspicillata)
Kotchyzus amerikanus (Coccyzus americanus)
Aquila fashiata (Aquila fasciata)
Larus djenei (Larus genei)

My favourite has to be Catharus fusheshens. Shounds like Shean Connery.

Did I get it right?

Maffong
Nope!

Tip: remember Caesar is pronounced, as it was taken up for the title of the German emperors, as 'Kaiser'
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Old Tuesday 30th May 2017, 23:48   #15
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Classical latin does not bring back many pleasant memories.... However I think the pronunciation of scientific latin is much more relaxed, for one thing the latin alphabet has fewer letters than our modern one. The incorporation of words and proper names from other languages quite possibly written in a different way to our 26 letter system especially in specific names present challenges . I think some botany courses include a few lectures on "Latin for Botanists / Taxonomists" but don't expect to be able to read and translate Caesar afterwards !

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Old Wednesday 31st May 2017, 11:05   #16
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Sorry to sidetrack this thread but ... There is a perfectly good reason for 'chaylee' etc. Latin in sacred choral music is always pronounced in the manner of 'Church Latin', for which the basic rule is 'get as close to Italian as you can'.
But you'd never say ch... for coeli in Italian. It's only ch if it's followed by e or i. I agree about the different flavours of Latin though.
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Old Friday 2nd June 2017, 12:39   #17
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Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
Not heard of any specifically for bats, but just use a general one for Classical Latin and you won't go wrong - the sounds you use in Latin follow well-established rules so are predictable

The ones that get forgotten most often are (1) 'c' in Latin is always a hard 'k' sound, and (2) 'v' in Latin is pronounced like 'w' in English. Another common error is that -ae- is like 'ee', but correctly more like 'eye'.
The only problem with that Nutty is that many names are comprised at least in part, of Greek not Latin.


A
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Old Friday 2nd June 2017, 16:27   #18
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I must say that it seems to me that if you are talking science, the best course in relation to anything coming from the church is to ignore it.

And as far as pronunciation of scientific names (which are known to all to contain a mixture of Latin and Greek roots as well as bastardised modern languages) is concerned, just remember that Aquila chrysaetos is pronounced "Golden Eagle", the main use of the scientific name being to avoid confusion in print.

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Old Friday 2nd June 2017, 19:13   #19
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... just remember that Aquila chrysaetos is pronounced "Golden Eagle", the main use of the scientific name being to avoid confusion in print.
Fair enough for well-known groups with standardised English names, but sci names are important when dealing with less popular groups where many species may not even have English names at all, and they certainly wouldn't be familiar with people who are not English speakers (e.g. if you were wanting to discuss South American bats).

Well said about the church!
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Old Saturday 3rd June 2017, 05:36   #20
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My original reason for wanting to know the pronunciations was that some publications don't even mention common bat names. So I have to keep looking them up, and I thought I might as well learn them.
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Old Saturday 3rd June 2017, 22:06   #21
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Yup

Quote:
Originally Posted by davercox View Post
Sorry to sidetrack this thread but ... There is a perfectly good reason for 'chaylee' etc. Latin in sacred choral music is always pronounced in the manner of 'Church Latin', for which the basic rule is 'get as close to Italian as you can'.
As a music fan I actually appreciate the info. "Chaylee" always had a ring to it for me. Thx for the share. I agree with pshute though, the "Ch" part is silent.
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Old Thursday 8th June 2017, 21:46   #22
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I've always advocated that scientific names are all about communication, not language (per se).
I once had an interesting conversation with an Austrian friend while walking in a wood (I think) in the Czech Republic. We were discussing a group of moth with case bearing larvae. We Brits call them Scichiday whereas he called them Pesoochidi - we both knew we were talking about the Psychidae!
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Old Thursday 8th June 2017, 23:19   #23
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Psychidae!
'Syke-' as in Psychology
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