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Old Tuesday 19th February 2019, 12:42   #1
Melanie
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Nhbs

Here is an important message from NHBS for EU customers:

NHBS BREXIT PREPARATIONS

Dear NHBS customer,

Our aim is to maintain ‘business as usual’ for all our customers – in the UK, the EU, and across the world – whatever the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, which currently remain shrouded in uncertainty.

We have increased stocks of key titles and products, ahead of the busy Spring season to create a ‘buffer’ against possible delays – many thanks to all those suppliers who are doing all that they can to help. We are also in regular contact with the couriers we use to import and export books and equipment, who are doing all possible to ensure arrivals and despatches. The vast majority of the companies we work with are well prepared for all eventualities, and we hope that together, we can minimise any disruption to normal service.

But because of the uncertainties, we advise all customers who have book and equipment requirements over the next few months to place their orders as early as possible. We are well aware that many ecological surveying and other field projects are time-critical, and will do all that we can to help.

To ensure that we give you the best assistance we have created a Brexit hotline, via [email protected]. Please email this address if you have urgent and time-sensitive orders to place, and we will respond immediately during UK office hours (8am – 5.30pm). If you would like us to phone you to discuss any concerns or details, just provide your number in the email.

Finally, a message to our many European customers and suppliers: we value your business, your books and equipment products and our relationships with you as highly as we have ever done. NHBS has been trading with the continental mainland right from the beginning of the company in 1985; European cooperation on natural history, ecology and conservation is one of the great post-War achievements, which we are proud to be a part of. Let’s stay in touch and overcome all obstacles!


Best wishes,

Natalie Mawson
NHBS Sales & Marketing Manager
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Old Tuesday 19th February 2019, 15:29   #2
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With most new titles being printed in China, NHBS and others, must already be dealing with some red tape, a bit more won't make much difference.
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Old Wednesday 20th February 2019, 13:25   #3
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With most new titles being printed in China, NHBS and others, must already be dealing with some red tape, a bit more won't make much difference.
One possible difference relates to postage prices from UK. At present, rates to EU countries are largely uniform, and despatched books can be sent to the UK Post Office in as few bags as required, the documentation being straightforward. My understanding is that once the UK is outside the EU (although the 'settling-in' interim period may apply), individual rates will apply to each EU country, in accordance with that country's laws and regulations, and will require supporting documentation obtained from that country beforehand (?). Once books are ready for despatch via the UK Post Office, the PO will require each destination country to have its separate bag and separate documentation.

This will take time and money, and likely will result in higher prices. The UK will then be, in terms of mail to and from EU countries, be in much of the position it was before it joined the EU.

A related difference will be a similar problem with bulk delivery of books to such as NHBS from EU-located publishers or transit handlers. Rates of postage/delivery fees from the EU countries to UK will reflect the rates already in existence for countries outside the EU that have not obtained the status of countries, though outside the EU, that already have trade agreements with the EU.

I would interpret the NHBS information as their way of managing the postage price increases in graduated fashion, but it will have caused a dent in their cash reserves.

This partly mirrors the position that road freight handlers are facing, where the replacement documentation they will need will be applicable only to the source (or destination) country in the EU. For any EU countries en-route, additional transit documentation will be obtainable only from for each of those countries. A friend of mine who is now retired has been approached by the transport firm he worked for to re-establish the department he once headed; it's job was to forecast the number of trips that would be required each year and then to obtain permits from each affected country for that year. Once that number of permits was reached, no new permits could be issued until the next year.

His old firm hope that post-Brexit matters won't be quite so complicated and manpower-intensive, but so far, they have no idea how much it will cost and whether they will have enough expertise to maintain their network of routes in Europe. He is pretty sure transporting freight between UK and the EU will become more expensive.
MJB
PS I sincerely hope that I'll be proved wrong, of course...
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Old Wednesday 20th February 2019, 13:44   #4
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One possible difference relates to postage prices from UK. At present, rates to EU countries are largely uniform, and despatched books can be sent to the UK Post Office in as few bags as required, the documentation being straightforward. My understanding is that once the UK is outside the EU (although the 'settling-in' interim period may apply), individual rates will apply to each EU country, in accordance with that country's laws and regulations, and will require supporting documentation obtained from that country beforehand (?). Once books are ready for despatch via the UK Post Office, the PO will require each destination country to have its separate bag and separate documentation.

This will take time and money, and likely will result in higher prices. The UK will then be, in terms of mail to and from EU countries, be in much of the position it was before it joined the EU.

A related difference will be a similar problem with bulk delivery of books to such as NHBS from EU-located publishers or transit handlers. Rates of postage/delivery fees from the EU countries to UK will reflect the rates already in existence for countries outside the EU that have not obtained the status of countries, though outside the EU, that already have trade agreements with the EU.

I would interpret the NHBS information as their way of managing the postage price increases in graduated fashion, but it will have caused a dent in their cash reserves.

This partly mirrors the position that road freight handlers are facing, where the replacement documentation they will need will be applicable only to the source (or destination) country in the EU. For any EU countries en-route, additional transit documentation will be obtainable only from for each of those countries. A friend of mine who is now retired has been approached by the transport firm he worked for to re-establish the department he once headed; it's job was to forecast the number of trips that would be required each year and then to obtain permits from each affected country for that year. Once that number of permits was reached, no new permits could be issued until the next year.

His old firm hope that post-Brexit matters won't be quite so complicated and manpower-intensive, but so far, they have no idea how much it will cost and whether they will have enough expertise to maintain their network of routes in Europe. He is pretty sure transporting freight between UK and the EU will become more expensive.
MJB
PS I sincerely hope that I'll be proved wrong, of course...

I personally see the EU, having to make some concessions at the last minute, after all, what have they really given us so far, exactly nothing IMHO. It's in no ones interests to make things harder or more complicated.
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Old Wednesday 20th February 2019, 13:51   #5
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One possible difference relates to postage prices from UK. At present, rates to EU countries are largely uniform, and despatched books can be sent to the UK Post Office in as few bags as required, the documentation being straightforward. My understanding is that once the UK is outside the EU (although the 'settling-in' interim period may apply), individual rates will apply to each EU country, in accordance with that country's laws and regulations, and will require supporting documentation obtained from that country beforehand (?). Once books are ready for despatch via the UK Post Office, the PO will require each destination country to have its separate bag and separate documentation.

This will take time and money, and likely will result in higher prices. The UK will then be, in terms of mail to and from EU countries, be in much of the position it was before it joined the EU.

A related difference will be a similar problem with bulk delivery of books to such as NHBS from EU-located publishers or transit handlers. Rates of postage/delivery fees from the EU countries to UK will reflect the rates already in existence for countries outside the EU that have not obtained the status of countries, though outside the EU, that already have trade agreements with the EU.

I would interpret the NHBS information as their way of managing the postage price increases in graduated fashion, but it will have caused a dent in their cash reserves.

This partly mirrors the position that road freight handlers are facing, where the replacement documentation they will need will be applicable only to the source (or destination) country in the EU. For any EU countries en-route, additional transit documentation will be obtainable only from for each of those countries. A friend of mine who is now retired has been approached by the transport firm he worked for to re-establish the department he once headed; it's job was to forecast the number of trips that would be required each year and then to obtain permits from each affected country for that year. Once that number of permits was reached, no new permits could be issued until the next year.

His old firm hope that post-Brexit matters won't be quite so complicated and manpower-intensive, but so far, they have no idea how much it will cost and whether they will have enough expertise to maintain their network of routes in Europe. He is pretty sure transporting freight between UK and the EU will become more expensive.
MJB
PS I sincerely hope that I'll be proved wrong, of course...
First point, aren't postage costs calculated by the carriers, not a political issue?

Regarding freight, your mates department must be long since defunct, we've been in the Common Market / EU nearly all my life so such paperwork must have been required for countries external to that and probably still are. Anyway surely, once a person or goods, enter the EU under Schengen in the case of people or whatever other mechanism exists for freight, free movement is the much vaunted rule with documentation required only at the entry point? Where would all this intermediate documentation be checked, there are no check points?

This is why Schengen makes the EU so hard to police in terms of people, weapons or drugs, once you're in, you're in and can move anywhere unhindered?
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Old Wednesday 20th February 2019, 20:09   #6
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I personally see the EU, having to make some concessions at the last minute, after all, what have they really given us so far, exactly nothing IMHO. It's in no ones interests to make things harder or more complicated.
Andy, I very much hope that compromises can be reached, but remember, this is only one of tens of thousands of issues across many subjects and interests, great and small, that are in similar limbo.

As for the EU 'giving' us anything, we can but hope, but since the UK unilaterally decided to leave knowing the vast range of interconnecting agreements to which the UK had signed up, the UK Government then decided not to begin address any of them with the businesses and organisations involved until 18 months after the referendum result. That is mind-boggling indecision on a monumental scale.

Within two months of the referendum, the other 27 nations of the EU began laying out policies that would have to be applied once the UK left. It would have been reasonable of them to have expected something similar on the UK side...

The result seems to be that utter confusion has resulted from the UK Government suddenly realising that the deadline date is fast approaching.

Given that, politically, environmental issues in UK are either often responses to crises or that they automatically are placed low down in the national priorities, whatever the EU may 'give' us in terms of compromises will be swallowed up in much higher priority shorter-term issues.

Let's hope that our birding and conservation interests manage to lose as little momentum as possible, probably by keeping below the political radar for long enough until some kind of normality descends. I would guess that the EU is more likely to 'give' the UK something on environmental/climate change grounds rather than anything that would inflame the UK's internal political infighting.
MJB
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Old Wednesday 20th February 2019, 21:12   #7
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As someone looking on from far out there: how could someone even hold a referendum when one side of what should be voted on was completely unknown? Shouldn't there have been a clear alternative before the referendum, as to whether the intent was to stay as closely connected with the EU on trade as possible or whether the intent was a hard brexit? I think the current chaos is due to not defining what the vote actually was about.

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Old Wednesday 20th February 2019, 21:29   #8
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As someone looking on from far out there: how could someone even hold a referendum when one side of what should be voted on was completely unknown? Shouldn't there have been a clear alternative before the referendum, as to whether the intent was to stay as closely connected with the EU on trade as possible or whether the intent was a hard brexit? I think the current chaos is due to not defining what the vote actually was about.

Niels
I fully agree, but then, I'm also looking on "from far out".

Regarding postage, I get many books that I ordered from some European web site (Amazon, Book Depository to just name two), and the books are actually dispatched from such far away countries as New Zealand to just name the most extreme one. Thus, no need to worry too much about rising postage costs.
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Old Wednesday 20th February 2019, 22:23   #9
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It might be interesting to know whether the conditions for the EU customers will be changed after the Brexit. For example, NHBS has a banque account in Berlin where you can pay in Euro. Will this account remain or have I pay my order with a credit card in the future?

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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 07:41   #10
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As someone looking on from far out there: how could someone even hold a referendum when one side of what should be voted on was completely unknown? Shouldn't there have been a clear alternative before the referendum, as to whether the intent was to stay as closely connected with the EU on trade as possible or whether the intent was a hard brexit? I think the current chaos is due to not defining what the vote actually was about.

Niels
Too expansive a subject to answer simply, better taken to Ruffled Feathers where I can't offend anyone.
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 13:20   #11
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Too expansive a subject to answer simply, better taken to Ruffled Feathers where I can't offend anyone.
I wouldn't recommend going there!

Better to plan for the worst, like NHBS have done above; and be ready to take advantages of the opportunities too. Then watch it all happen.
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 13:59   #12
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I wouldn't recommend going there!

Better to plan for the worst, like NHBS have done above; and be ready to take advantages of the opportunities too. Then watch it all happen.
Which is what?

I buy a lot of books and they often come from outside the EU with no apparent, financial disadvantage, often at a very similar postage price to the EU.

It wouldn't be in the interests of Europe, to hit any British business with any kind of penalty as it will simply result in tit-for-tat measures. Books are exempt from VAT in the UK so that won't change either unless a tariff is slapped on them which I doubt.
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 14:29   #13
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Which is what?

I buy a lot of books and they often come from outside the EU with no apparent, financial disadvantage, often at a very similar postage price to the EU.

It wouldn't be in the interests of Europe, to hit any British business with any kind of penalty as it will simply result in tit-for-tat measures. Books are exempt from VAT in the UK so that won't change either unless a tariff is slapped on them which I doubt.
It's all about risk assessments..
Worst case will be different for every company or person, and so will the opportunities.
You tend to plan for the worst that can realistically happen, then you never get disappointed.(bit like responses to posts on here )

NHBS: I have no idea, (I could find out if they wanted to pay me a few grand , but I suspect they already have done the exercise, they sound pretty well prepared. I would certainly trust them enough to buy from them, their original post is good for their reputation.)

For me / my family: We have avoided the risk, spent our money before the pound plummeted, luck more than judgement; and resisted booking any European hols so far this year.

For you: I have no idea. Do you see any risks or opportunities on the horizon?
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 14:49   #14
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For you: I have no idea. Do you see any risks or opportunities on the horizon?
I have a new baby daughter, 6 months, there is a serious risk that I'll punch her first boyfriend when the time comes, does that count?

Regarding travel, I don't do much in Europe these days, it's been expensive for a while, especially factoring in new birds per Pound, even pre-Brexit, Africa again this year.
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 14:53   #15
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For you: I have no idea. Do you see any risks or opportunities on the horizon?
I have a new baby daughter, 6 months, there is a serious risk that I'll punch the first, spotty Herbert that asks her out when she's old enough, does that count?

Regarding travel, I don't do much in Europe these days, it's been expensive for a while, even pre-Brexit, Africa again this year however, we have discussed paying for the trip prior to 29th March, just in case.
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 15:21   #16
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I have a new baby daughter, 6 months, there is a serious risk that I'll punch the first, spotty Herbert that asks her out when she's old enough, does that count?

Regarding travel, I don't do much in Europe these days, it's been expensive for a while, even pre-Brexit, Africa again this year however, we have discussed paying for the trip prior to 29th March, just in case.
Well congratulations. I can think of more immediate risks involving a 6 month old, and your book collection!!
NHBS might see this as an opportunity
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 15:28   #17
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and resisted booking any European hols so far this year.
Can't see the logic in putting my life on hold because of a bunch of numpties in Westminster. I've booked two trips to the Med post-Brexit, or maybe not?
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 16:32   #18
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Well congratulations. I can think of more immediate risks involving a 6 month old, and your book collection!!
NHBS might see this as an opportunity
Thanks Peter,
books are well out of her reach!

Our biggest financial hit will be thanks to Mr Putin's little holiday to the Ukraine which saw 50% of the value of the Ruble lost due to sanctions that will hit us hard when / if, we sell our property here in Russia. It's always the little people who take the hit.
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 16:35   #19
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Can't see the logic in putting my life on hold because of a bunch of numpties in Westminster. I've booked two trips to the Med post-Brexit, or maybe not?
If I'm applying for a visa, it's going to be for a place with at least a hundred new birds!
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 17:00   #20
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Can't see the logic in putting my life on hold because of a bunch of numpties in Westminster. I've booked two trips to the Med post-Brexit, or maybe not?
Chances are the trips will be fine. Our family hols involve our campervan and a ferry or the channel tunnel. Don't get me wrong, they have been the happiest holidays, with plenty of wildlife near the campsites, I choose them!
But we have to go in school hols, and if the ports clog up, well that van can get very hot and very enclosed very quickly! My logic is we'd kill each other in a 10 hour traffic jam!
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 17:53   #21
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If I'm applying for a visa, it's going to be for a place with at least a hundred new birds!
Algerian visa at £85 for one bird insufficient then?!

Cheers, a
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 18:13   #22
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Algerian visa at £85 for one bird insufficient then?!

Cheers, a
Probably, we don't all have pots of cash to burn on one bird.
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 19:39   #23
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Probably, we don't all have pots of cash to burn on one bird.
That's what my bank manager said.

cheers, a
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 20:25   #24
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Chances are the trips will be fine.
I might have spoken too soon link
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Old Thursday 21st February 2019, 21:07   #25
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I might have spoken too soon link
I hope that any Brits, planning a holiday to Spain will say 'up yours' and go elsewhere, many parts of Spain would be ghost Towns without UK tourists.
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