Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

gulls

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 49 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Tuesday 6th November 2007, 15:57   #26
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
very nice pic, jan - do you think the one photogr. by joszef is of the same age? as i told, in the danube delta they're getting more common than they used to be.
__________________
lou
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 6th November 2007, 17:35   #27
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,200
The one I linked is a first winter taken on 28 January 2007.

Probably the same one on 27 Dec. 2006.

http://clanga.com/images/full/P1463.JPG

In flight on 31 Dec. 2006.

http://clanga.com/images/full/P1465.JPG

So Jozefs Pallas is also a first winter - solid dark tertial, seemingly all dark tipped bill and solid dark secondaries sticking out.

Pekka Komis great image of a first winter (2cy) Oman 26 January 2007:

http://www.tarsiger.com/images/komi/Larichj3.jpg

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 6th November 2007, 20:28   #28
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,200
Note in these images how impression of the bill thickness in this Caspian Gull varies according to angle:

http://www.iesmeulmeester.nl/fotos.p...&subcatsub=228

Also check Ies whole site with lots of good gull images!

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 7th November 2007, 08:06   #29
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
thank you jan, very nice site it is, i'll study it when i have more time!
__________________
lou
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th November 2007, 10:25   #30
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
some more, cropped and blurry. have fun
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von 3cy satchinez 12.01.2007 c.o.manci.JPG
Views:	269
Size:	70.3 KB
ID:	113238  Click image for larger version

Name:	ad paar daniel petrescu crop.jpg
Views:	244
Size:	38.9 KB
ID:	113239  Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von gelbfig 02.2005 kobenhavn, jakob dall, netfugl.jpg
Views:	271
Size:	72.1 KB
ID:	113240  Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von IMG_4958.jpg
Views:	258
Size:	40.5 KB
ID:	113241  
__________________
lou
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th November 2007, 23:04   #31
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
come on, don't be shy, jan, you can edit your post anytime
__________________
lou
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th November 2007, 23:05   #32
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,200
Well Lou since no one else seems to go for it - i might as well have a try. Im going fast -not much thinking

1. cachinnans
2. argentatus
3. argentatus
4. cachinnans

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th November 2007, 23:07   #33
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
2:2 (2 out of 4 correct)

ok. 1st one surely is a cachinnans with that nice mirror.
and i'm impressed about your argentatus guess, it was correct (but which one of the two )
and in the 1cy one, you saw the greater covert pattern and said cachi...?
__________________
lou

Last edited by lou salomon : Sunday 11th November 2007 at 23:16.
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th November 2007, 23:33   #34
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,200
The so called 'omissus' for the argentatus.

Yes I said cachinnans because of the greater covert pattern - but also seen on several other big Larus - such as michahellis - argentatus - smithsonianus and so on. The fashion of the inner primaries also reminds of cachinnans.

So what about nr 2?

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th November 2007, 23:44   #35
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
but as you know the fashion of the inner primaries can be very similar in cachi and micha. sorry i can show you the tail tomorrow only, original is on my own pc.
- and the famous omissus is the only one from a website, and i'm sure you have seen the pic once in your life ... but of course structure of this bird is quite clear. tomorrow also the other whole pics.
-2nd is not argentatus (and mantle colour is appearing too dark)
__________________
lou

Last edited by lou salomon : Sunday 11th November 2007 at 23:48.
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 11th November 2007, 23:51   #36
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,200
Ill let you and others work with these in the meantime:

http://gullsofcrete.blogspot.com/

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th November 2007, 15:08   #37
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
1. is a 3cy cachinnans from 12.01. in western romania, by c.o.manci
2. a pair of cachinnans in the danube delta by daniel petrescu
3. argentatus with yelllow legs from 02.2005 (jakob dall, kobenhavn)
4. a michahellis, 30.07.2006 romanian black sea coast by c.o.manci
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von 3cy satchinez 12.01.2007 c.o.manci.JPG
Views:	200
Size:	70.3 KB
ID:	113417  Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von cach ad paar donaudelta daniel petrescu crop.jpg
Views:	235
Size:	184.6 KB
ID:	113418  Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von gelbfig 02.2005 kobenhavn, jakob dall, netfugl.jpg
Views:	249
Size:	86.6 KB
ID:	113419  Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4958.jpg
Views:	221
Size:	47.7 KB
ID:	113421  
__________________
lou
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th November 2007, 15:17   #38
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
- juvenile head and tail (2 different birds).
- a wing
- headless
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von IMG_5016.jpg
Views:	230
Size:	26.1 KB
ID:	113422  Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von IMG_5049.jpg
Views:	211
Size:	35.0 KB
ID:	113423  Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von IMG_9383(1).JPG
Views:	211
Size:	26.0 KB
ID:	113424  Click image for larger version

Name:	juv juli 2006 olt slatina jj.jpg
Views:	208
Size:	29.4 KB
ID:	113433  
__________________
lou

Last edited by lou salomon : Monday 12th November 2007 at 15:34.
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th November 2007, 16:18   #39
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,200
1. cachinnans
2. michahellis (note pale outer TF)
3. michahellis
4. michahellis

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th November 2007, 16:41   #40
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
1st one
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5016.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	86.3 KB
ID:	113447  
__________________
lou
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th November 2007, 19:51   #41
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
how did you id that wing correctly? dark p10 underside? but is that reliable in 2 winter birds?
those crete birds are very interesting and highly discussable...
__________________
lou
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th November 2007, 20:15   #42
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
2 other wings
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7600 Kopie.JPG
Views:	192
Size:	38.3 KB
ID:	113476  Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7617 Kopie 1.jpg
Views:	208
Size:	37.4 KB
ID:	113477  
__________________
lou

Last edited by lou salomon : Monday 12th November 2007 at 20:19.
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th November 2007, 21:42   #43
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,200
Well Lou - undewing pattern could trick you into thinking Caspian, although quite understandible, but inner primary pattern not good for argentatus - more solid dark outer web and pale inner and of course overall pale underwing. Rounded primary tips suggest 2cy (no mirror)

http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=96068

Structure and shape and a bit of the body and head = not good for at least Caspian. However YLG.

The first new one looks like a Med. Gull:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...cture_id=13224

and the tiny mirror maybe as tiny as a field mark in this case but I have a feeling of Caspian in moult.

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 12th November 2007, 21:51   #44
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
both correct jan.
gr. covert pattern in the caspian is also perfect, though an abraded micha could look similar. taken at end of may, so it's a 3cy.
__________________
lou
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th November 2007, 09:57   #45
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
hind and front parts of ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von image001.jpg
Views:	201
Size:	285.1 KB
ID:	113541  Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie (2) von DSC01586.JPG
Views:	215
Size:	262.5 KB
ID:	113542  
__________________
lou

Last edited by lou salomon : Tuesday 13th November 2007 at 10:02.
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th November 2007, 10:17   #46
SteveClifton
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: N Yorks
Posts: 2,593
Just found this thread. Looking at the very first picture at the start of the thread, the back bird out of the three gulls is surely an adult Common Gull?
SteveClifton is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th November 2007, 17:37   #47
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,200
Again michahellis although not the so called typical tertial pattern - but within the variation for the species. Since not so long ago I saw this I remember it well:

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....6&d=1194885379

The other one however Im more uncertain about. Judging by the shape of the nostril it looks more like a YLG or HG - Caspian has a more slit-like - equally broad in both ends - broader in front (triangular) in the other two. No red on upper mandible signals Herring.

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th November 2007, 18:17   #48
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
it was a bit silly to put that tertials in here but i had it in mind before posting the whole bird as comparison with the mallorcan GBBG.

the bill is from a bird we have also discussed on the ID forum. i have many pics of this gull, which i feel is quite problematic. here's the whole head. i think it is a female despite of that bill. tomorrow i can post a better resolution of the head. it also has some strange cloudy grey marks as you can see all over the head.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Kopie von DSC01586 Kopie.jpg
Views:	223
Size:	23.7 KB
ID:	113581  
__________________
lou

Last edited by lou salomon : Tuesday 13th November 2007 at 18:26.
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th November 2007, 19:15   #49
JANJ
Registered User
 
JANJ's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 8,200
I remember now Lou.

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....6&d=1190301489

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....1&d=1190372364

Note again the different bill shape impression you get - wider tip in image 1.

JanJ
JANJ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 13th November 2007, 21:33   #50
lou salomon
the birdonist
 
lou salomon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 14,780
yea, that's the bird. maybe even a larus cachinellis or michinnans
possibly i get time tomorrow to get out the originals. in most of the pics it has such an upright stance, legs are rel. dull yellow and iris is well pigmentated (all pro cachinnans). on the other hand legs are thick and short for a cachi and bill is more like a fem. michahellis. head shape could fit female of both, eye doesn't look small.
__________________
lou
lou salomon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gulls, gulls, gulls... Maine coast hbreder Bird Identification Q&A 17 Sunday 7th October 2007 06:26
Gulls!!! Ronayne88 Bird Identification Q&A 7 Sunday 17th December 2006 12:16
kelp gulls Vs herring gulls cateyes Sea Watch 2 Sunday 16th July 2006 09:27
kelp gulls and LBB gulls scuba0095 Sea Watch 4 Saturday 15th July 2006 08:56
Gulls,Gulls,Gulls!! dfd Bird Forum Fun Quizzes 13 Friday 20th January 2006 20:53



Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.22785306 seconds with 38 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 17:23.