Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

A Dove named after Clémentine… !?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Thursday 26th February 2015, 08:59   #1
Calalp
Björn Bergenholtz
 
Calalp's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 2,870
Post A Dove named after Clémentine… !?

Here´s yet another obscure scientific name …

clementine
●… in the invalid "Kurukuru Clementinæ" DES MURS & PRÉVOST 1849 and "Ptinilopus Clementinæ" HOMBRON & JAQUINOT 1853 a k a (in French) "Kurukuru/Ptinolope de Clémentine" [syn. Ptilinopus porphyraceus TEMMINCK 1821].

The work referred to (as "unseen") in Jobling's HBW Alive Key is; Voyage autour du monde sur la frégate "la Vénus" pendant les années 1836-1839. publié... par Abel Du Petit-Thouars,... (in 10 volumes) and the "OD" is found in (Tome V) Volume 5, on pp. 264-266 … (attached, or here).

Note: this is the 1855 Edition, not the original 1839 version.

Also note the sentence "une petit brick-goëlette nommé la Clémentine", …" found on page 325, in Tome 1 (here), from the first edition 1839 … if relevant? Also more "Clémentine" in the sentences and pages thereafter.

The other reference in the "Voyage autour …" : "Ptinolope de Clémentine, Hombr. et. Jacq., pl. 28, fig.3, Voy. au pôle Sud" is found (here).

Without understanding French … is it a boat?
x
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	- p.264.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	208.9 KB
ID:	533926  Click image for larger version

Name:	- p.265.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	220.2 KB
ID:	533927  Click image for larger version

Name:	- p.266.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	195.1 KB
ID:	533928  
Calalp is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 26th February 2015, 19:59   #2
mb1848
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Santa Maria, California USA
Posts: 1,948
I believe that Clementine refers to a brigantine Clementine owned by a Frenchman Jules Dudoit flying under a British flag that sailed the Pacific in the 1830s to the 1840s. It was involved in a diplomatic mess between Captain Petit-Thouars of La Venus and Captain Belcher of the Sulphur at Hawaii. Clementine was the name of Dudoit's wife and daughter.
https://books.google.com/books?id=LH...page&q&f=false . Page 510.

Last edited by mb1848 : Friday 27th February 2015 at 04:49.
mb1848 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 27th February 2015, 16:37   #3
nartreb
Speak softly and carry a long lens
 
nartreb's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1,242
Yes, it's a boat. (A schooner brig - sometimes loosely included under the rubric "brigantine" but with the rear mast entirely schooner-rigged.)

That passage goes for a couple of pages describing an incident involving a couple of forcibly-deported French and British missionaries, a captain (Dudoit, a Frenchman who, for some reason, flew a British flag on this ship) forced to take them aboard, and then negotiations among French, British, Hawaiian, and US representatives. Most of the action takes place in Honolulu but there's a reference to Baja California as well?

Edit: after following mb1848's link (a book by Hiram Bingham the 1st! Grandfather of the discoverer of Macchu Picchu??), it seems that the Clementine [under a different captain, according to the French link] brought the two missionaries to Hawaii (from Baja California), so that was why the Hawaiian government picked that ship to carry out their expulsion. Instead, Dudoit abandoned his ship and marched to the British consulate, leaving the two missionaries aboard.
__________________
My bird photos

Last edited by nartreb : Friday 27th February 2015 at 16:51.
nartreb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 27th February 2015, 23:33   #4
Calalp
Björn Bergenholtz
 
Calalp's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 2,870
Ok, the Dove was named after a boat (a French "brick goelette") ... by the name Clémentine. Fair enough.

As good as "Larus Vegae", I guess!

Whith very limited knowledge of French I have to ask: Is the commemoration chrystal clear? What does the first phrase in the OD itself tell us?
Quote:
"C´est à MM. Hombron et Jacquinot, chirurgiens de Zélée, que l´on doit la première figure de cete espèces …, sur laquelle elle porte le nom que ces voyageurs lui ont, donné, et que nous lui conservons, de Clémentine, en souvernir d´illustres infortunes."
I know who Mr. Hombron & Mr. Jacquinot was and the Zélée ... anyone feel like translating?
Calalp is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 27th February 2015, 23:53   #5
mb1848
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Santa Maria, California USA
Posts: 1,948
google/me translate: on which it is named that these travelers have him, and we keep it to Clementine in souvenir to illustrate his misfortunes. Dudoit's wife Clementine died ten months into the marriage. ???
mb1848 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 28th February 2015, 08:11   #6
l_raty
laurent raty
 
l_raty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 3,040
"It is to Messrs Hombron and Jacquinot, surgeons on la Zélée, that we owe the first illustration of this species, several specimens of which had long been at the Museum of Natural History of Paris: it is the #3 of the plate 29 of the Atlas of their Voyage au pôle Sud, where it bears the name that these travellers gave it, and that we retain for it, of Clémentine, in remembrance of famous misfortunes."
l_raty is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 28th February 2015, 09:37   #7
Calalp
Björn Bergenholtz
 
Calalp's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 2,870
Thumbs up Thanks guys!

And thanks Laurent for the translation!

As I understand it: the Dove is named after the boat, which in its turn (of minor importance here ) was named after Dudoit's wife.

Anyone think otherwise?

If not: Clémentine ... over and out!
x

Last edited by Calalp : Sunday 1st March 2015 at 08:52.
Calalp is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 09:06   #8
Taphrospilus
Registered User
 
Taphrospilus's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Munich
Posts: 1,166
Anyway here the plate Des Murs and Prévost referred to.
Taphrospilus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why is the Puffin named... jebir Birds & Birding 10 Friday 26th January 2007 09:23
Have you ever named birds? Sedgley Birds & Birding 45 Friday 12th January 2007 16:19
Clementine is no more. alcedo.atthis Garden Birds, Bird Feeding & Nestboxes 4 Saturday 16th July 2005 13:12



Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.20499802 seconds with 21 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 13:07.