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Old Wednesday 2nd January 2019, 19:53   #1
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stephani

https://www.hbw.com/dictionary/definition/stephani
Quote:
stephani
● Étienne Stephan Jacquinot (1776-1840) father of French explorer Vice-Adm. Charles Jacquinot (Chalcophaps).
[...]
Is there a source for the middle name ?

In the original work, he is just cited as "Étienne Jacquinot". "Étienne" is a variant of "Stéphane", thus it would in fact be enough to explain the eponym (cf. Étienne / Esteban / Istvan / Steven / Stephen / Stephan / Stéphane; all of which derive originally from the Greek στεφανος, 'crowned', latinizable into stephanus, genitive stephani). Although presumably not really impossible, the combination of the two variants in the name of a single person strikes me as somewhat unexpected; not to mention that the spelling "Stephan" doesn't exactly look French.
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Old Wednesday 2nd January 2019, 20:12   #2
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Here Bo Beolens, Michael Watkins, Michael Grayson. Ptilinopus perousii mariae Pucheran, 1853 would be for his wife (without checking further). But we have seen several times that The Eponym Dictionary of Birds had errors.

Maybe the easiest way to check archive en ligne for Honoré Jacquinot born 1er août 1815 à Moulins-Engilbert (Nièvre). Usually name of the father and mother is mentioned in the birth certificate.

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Old Wednesday 2nd January 2019, 20:52   #3
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Mr. Bahr and Mr. Bruce et al discuss here:
http://boc-online.org/bulletins/down...1362-Bruce.pdf .
Page 14 of 15 or p. 99. This still does not provide a original source for Stephan.
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Old Wednesday 2nd January 2019, 23:11   #4
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I think the Stephan is superfluous. He is Étienne.
"son of Etienne Jacquinot, then clerk-in-chief of the Marine Engineer and since banker, and of Jeanne-Florimonde Le Blanc, was born in Nevers on 14 ventose year iv (4 March 1798) entered the Navy in 1812..."
https://books.google.com/books?id=lE...gbs_navlinks_s . Page 98.
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Old Wednesday 2nd January 2019, 23:26   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taphrospilus View Post
Maybe the easiest way to check archive en ligne for Honoré Jacquinot born 1er août 1815 à Moulins-Engilbert (Nièvre). Usually name of the father and mother is mentioned in the birth certificate.
On the birth record of Charles Hector (14 Ventôse an IV in Nevers, Nièvre; [here], open the file "5Mi1 78", image 1231/1460), his father is cited as Étienne Jacquinot, his mother as Jeanne-Florimon[de] Le Blanc.
I can't apparently find Honoré's birth record. I did find his death record, however (22 May 1887 in Nevers, Nièvre; [here], open the file "2 Mi EC 362", image 385/421): there, Honoré's father is again Étienne Jacquinot, his mother is Marie Pinault. (I find her in several places on the web as "Sylvie Pinault", however.)

So it seems they were actually half-brothers -- same father, different mothers.
Ptinilopus mariae ([OD]) is dedicated to Honoré's mother.

No "Stephan" in sight, so far.
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Old Wednesday 2nd January 2019, 23:31   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1848 View Post
Thanks Mark. From outside the US: https://archive.org/details/dictionn...ngoog/page/n97
(P. 99 is lacking, though.)

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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 08:34   #7
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If here is correct Honoré married in Nevers 22 February 1841 a second time. Maybe more information on his birth place? But the death certificate anyway confirms what I wrote in post # 2. If I read in the link...

Quote:
figlio riconosciuto di Etienne Jacquinot
...it could be that Honoré was adopted and therefore difficult to find. But if I look at 5Mi13 573 here p. 685 of 851 no one seems to be born 1. août 1815 in Moulins-Engilbert.

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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 10:27   #8
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Chalcophaps d’Étienne.—Chalcophaps stephani.

Even if not one of "my guys" ... wouldn't it be better (alt. only fair) to explain this eponym as: Étienne Jacquinot* (1776–1840), father of the French explorer, naturalist Honoré Jacquinot (1814–1887) and of his half-brother explorer Vice-Adm. Charles Jacquinot (1796–1879).

To me it seems odd (a bit poor or even niggardly) to leave the younger Son Honoré out of the explanation, as he was the one (as far as I can tell) referred to in the OD; "Peristère d’Étienne, Homr. et Jacq. Voy. au Pôle sud, Pl. 28, fig. 2 " (Plate here) ... since Honoré Jacquinot was the Author, together with Jacques Bernard Hombron (1798-1852), of the Zoology part of the multi-volume Work Voyage au Pole sud et ...

Just an opinion. If relevant?

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*... without the "Stephan" part (in my mind; it´s simply a latin version of Étienne).
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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 11:07   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calalp View Post
[b] the French explorer, naturalist Honoré Jacquinot (1814–1887) and
From his death record post #5 Honoré Jacquinot (1815–1887) but here 1. August 1814 zu Moulins-en-Gilbert.

Léonore here and here.

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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 11:17   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taphrospilus View Post
If here is correct Honoré married in Nevers 22 February 1841 a second time. Maybe more information on his birth place?
[Here], open the file "5Mi1 87", image 470/1049 - on 22 Feb 1841, Étienne (thus not Honoré) married Sylvie Pinot in Nevers.

Étienne was born in Nevers on 28 Oct 1776. (Same birth year as given in the key, but the date of his death given there (1840) must obviously have been incorrect.) Étienne was a widower; his first wife, Jeanne Florimond Leblanc, had died in Nevers on 13 Jun 1814 (*).
Sylvie Pinot was born in Nevers on 4 Mar 1794.
Étienne and Sylvie additionally declared here they had a child of the male gender, named Honoré Jacquinot, already officially recognised by them earlier, and whom they recognised here again as their son.

The name of Honoré's mother seems to have been oddly variable, in a way that I can't really explain right now. Her family name is here clearly written "Pinot", thrice, in the marriage record; but her signature reads "S. Pinault", and her brother (who was a witness of the marriage) appears there as "Charles Pinault". Here she is "Sylvie" but, in Honoré's death record (and, by implication, in the dedication of Ptinilopus mariae), she was "Marie".


(*) Death record confirming this date (i.e., possibly over one year before Honoré's birth; Étienne's second marriage didn't follow his first wife's death directly at all): [here], file "5Mi1 83", image 1105/1351.

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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 11:37   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taphrospilus View Post
From his death record post #5 Honoré Jacquinot (1815–1887) ...
Like I said in my Post #8, Mr. Jacquinot is not "one of my guys", as he´s not commemorated (neither one of them), in any Swedish Common name, of any bird.

The years in that post are all from today's Key. If correct, or not, is unknown to me.

Good luck finding them all!

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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 12:52   #12
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It might be worth to check 5Mi1 78 p. 466 of 1460. According there enty 13 or 15 might be a Sylvie Pinot. Unfortunatelly I do not have the time now to look into it.
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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 13:53   #13
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Marie Eugénie Jacquinot, born Sylvie Pinot (alt. Pinault) 1794-1857

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taphrospilus View Post
It might be worth to check 5Mi1 78 p. 466 of 1460. According there enty 13 or 15 might be a Sylvie Pinot. Unfortunatelly I do not have the time now to look into it.
The full record is on image 412/1460.

Birth record: [here], open the file "5Mi1 78", image 412/1460. Sylvie Pinot, born in Nevers to François Pinot and Martine Furriau his wife, on 14 Ventôse an II ("hier" on 15 Ventôse) = 4 Mar 1794 -- this matches the 1841 marriage record prefectly -
Quote:
Aujourd'hui quinze Ventôse l'an deux de la République française, pardevant nous Démosthène Faure membre du conseil général de la Commune de Nevers, Département de la Nièvre, élu le neuf octobre dernier pour rédiger les actes destinés à constater les naissances, mariages et décès des citoyens, est comparu en la salle publique de la maison commune de Nevers François Pinot journallier âgé de quarante-cinq ans domicilé rue de la [?] section du levant, lequel accompagné de [...] a déclaré à moi Démosthène Faure que Martine Furriau son épouse en légitime mariage âgée de quarante ans est accouchée d'hier en sa maison à sept heures du soir d'un enfant femelle qu'il m'a présenté et auquel il a donné le prénom de Sylvie, Pinot, - d'après cette déclaration que [etc.]
Death record: [here], file "5Mi1 89", image 798/1308. She appears to have died on 23 Sep 1857, as "Marie Eugénie Pinault"; born in Nevers, wife (i.e., not "widow") of Étienne Jacquinot; she passed away in Étienne Jacquinot's home, Place Ducale in Nevers (where he would himself die a few years later) -
Quote:
L'an mil huit cent cinquante-sept, le vingt-trois septembre, pardevant nous adjoint au Maire de la Ville de Nevers, Département de la Nièvre, officier de l'État Civil de la dite Ville, sont comparus [...], lesquels ont déclaré que Mme Marie Eugénie Pinault, âgée de soixante-un ans, née à Nevers, épouse de Étienne Jacquinot, est décédée aujourd'hui à cinq heures du matin, chez son mari, Place Ducale, et ont les déclarants signé avec nous le présent acte après lecture faite,
(Thus she started as "Sylvie Pinot" in 1794; in 1841 (cf. post #10 above), she was still called "Sylvie Pinot" by the État Civil, albeit she wrote her last name "Pinault", which was also apparently the official spelling of her brother's last name at this point; in 1846 [here], her son named a dove (in French) after her, calling it "de Marie"; the bird's name was latinised into mariae by Pucheran in 1853, with an explicit dedication to Honoré Jacquinot's mother; in 1857, at her death, the État Civil called her "Marie Eugénie Pinault"; subsequently (see next post), she was called "Sylvie" again ("Pinaud" -- a spelling I saw nowhere else) in the 1865 death record of her husband; then (vide post #5) once more "Marie Pinault" in the 1887 death record of her son.)


Step-mother of French explorer Charles Hector Jacquinot, commander of La Zélée in the Pacific 1837-1840; mother of his surgeon-naturalist half-brother Honoré Jacquinot.

Last edited by l_raty : Thursday 3rd January 2019 at 22:32. Reason: step-mother vs. mother-in-law issue
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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 16:21   #14
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Étienne Jacquinot 1771-1865

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Originally Posted by l_raty View Post
Étienne was born in Nevers on 28 Oct 1776. (Same birth year as given in the key, but the date of his death given there (1840) must obviously have been incorrect.)
No, I'm sorry, I misread it...
Étienne was born in Nevers on 28 Oct 1771. ("soixante-onze", not "-seize".)
Étienne died in Nevers on 4 Jan 1865. Death record: [here], file "5Mi1 90", 801/1192 -
Quote:
L'an mil huit cent soixante-cinq, le quatre janvier, à neuf heures et demie du matin, pardevant nous adjoint au Maire de la Ville de Nevers, Département de la Nièvre, officier de l'État Civil de la dite Ville sont comparus Mr Charles Hector Jacquinot, Vice-Amiral, âgé de soixante-huit ans, demeurant à Toulon (Var); fils du défunt et Pierre Achille Jacquinot, âgé de soixante-six ans, banquier, demeurant à Nevers, rue Adam Billaud, autre fils du défunt, lesquels nous ont déclaré que Étienne Jacquinot; âgé de quatre-vingt-quatorze ans, né à Nevers, veuf en première noce de Florimond Leblanc, veuf en deuxième de Sylvie Pinaud, est décédé aujourd'hui à trois heures du matin en son domicile Place Ducale, et ont les déclarants signé avec nous le présent acte après lecture faite,
I did not find (yet) an original birth record. (1771 is before the État Civil; parochial registers are less straightforward to search, and possibly/probably not fully available online.)

There was no "Stephan" in his name in any of the documents I have seen -- he is invariably simply "Étienne Jacquinot". (This includes his mariage and death records, his two wifes' death records, Charles Hector's birth record, Honoré's death records.)

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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 18:20   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l_raty View Post
Mother-in-law of French explorer Charles Hector Jacquinot, commander of La Zélée in the Pacific 1837-1840; mother of his surgeon-naturalist half-brother Honoré Jacquinot.
Mother-in-law or step mother? I'd have thought the latter.
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Old Thursday 3rd January 2019, 18:32   #16
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Mother-in-law or step mother? I'd have thought the latter.
And you'd have been right, it seems. (We have use the same word for both - belle-mère - in French.)

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Old Friday 4th January 2019, 01:22   #17
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A website says Louis Claude DES SAULSES DE FREYCINET had a "Enfant élevé" "Père nourricier" relationship with Quoy and Charles Jacquinoy.
https://gw.geneanet.org/garric?lang=...or&n=jacquinot .
Foster parent in English?
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Old Friday 4th January 2019, 08:11   #18
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Honoré Jacquinot ...

The normally, in most cases, very reliable BnF (Bibliotèque nationale de France) and their data-base data.bnf.fr (here) says:
Quote:
Honoré Jacquinot (1814-1887)

[...]

Naissance: Moulins-Engilbert (Nièvre), 01-08-1815

Mort: 2-05-1887

[...]
Logic? Nope.
--

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Old Friday 4th January 2019, 09:31   #19
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Originally Posted by l_raty View Post
Honoré's birth and death records.)
So you found Honoré's birth record?
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Old Friday 4th January 2019, 10:45   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taphrospilus View Post
So you found Honoré's birth record?
No, I left a word in the sentence where I should have deleted it. As a natural son, I presume that he might not have been declared immediately, and perhaps not where he was born. Obviously even the French administrative services had difficult to trace his birth date.
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Old Friday 4th January 2019, 10:47   #21
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If Étienne Jacquinot (regardless of his years ) was married (most likely for the first time) to Jeanne Florimond Leblanc*, who apparently died 13 June 1814, and Honoré was born the following year; 1 August 1815 ... and far, far later, Étienne Jacquinot was re-married, in 1841 (with the one oddly named Sylvie/Marie Eugénie Pinot/Pinault/Pinaud) ... doesn't it look you/we are missing one wife? One right in between ...

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*who ought to have been the Mother of the explorer Vice-Adm. Charles Jacquinot (born 1796).
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Old Friday 4th January 2019, 11:47   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calalp View Post
If Étienne Jacquinot (regardless of his years ) was married (most likely for the first time) to Jeanne Florimond Leblanc* (who apparently died 13 June 1814)
Her death record confirms the date (link at the end of post #10).
(And, yes, she was Charles Hector Jacquinot's mother according to the birth record of the latter (link in post #5). And thus the "Marie Jacquinot" of Pucheran's mariae was not, contra what the key states currently.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calalp View Post
, and Honoré was born the following year; 1 August 1815 ... and far, far later, Étienne Jacquinot was re-married, in 1841 (with the one oddly named Sylvie/Marie Eugénie Pinot/Pinault/Pinaud) ... doesn't it look you/we are missing one wife? One right in between ...
I have been wondering about this as well. (On a number of French-language websites, you find that Honoré is Étienne' natural son, and that Étienne married the mother, Sylvie/Marie, "after the death" of his first wife, suggesting a relation between these two events. He did marry her, but 28 years after his first wife's death, thus it's certainly not this death that "triggered" the marriage. "Something else" than the presence of Jeanne Florimond may have have made the marriage impossible before that point but, if so, I'm unclear what.)
In any case, the 1841 marriage record states explicitly that Honoré was the (presumably unique, and already officially recognised) natural son of the couple getting married there, which implies they must have had a relationship for decades (link in post #10) -
Quote:
[...] Mr Étienne Jacquinot et Mlle Sylvie Pinot sont unis par le mariage et à l'instant, les époux ont déclaré qu'ils ont à deux un enfant du sexe masculin, actuellement Chirurgien de Marine et Chevalier de la Légion d'Honneur, lequel ils déclarent avoir reconnu antérieurement, par acte authentique, sous les noms et prénoms de Jacquinot Honoré, et qu'ils reconnaissent de rechef pour leur fils, [...]
And Étienne's death record (link + quote in post #14) states explicitly that "Florimond Leblanc" was his first wife, and "Sylvie Pinaud" [sic] his second.

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Old Friday 4th January 2019, 14:03   #23
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Am I going mad or just losing the will to live? If I have to amend the Key entry for mariae again I think I shall book myself into the nearest asylum and find a nice quiet darkened room!
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Old Friday 4th January 2019, 14:25   #24
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Sorry, James, it's certainly in part my fault - I posted things as I found them, and the result was a somewhat disjointed thread, which may not be very easy to follow.
She died in 1857. (There's a link to, and a quote from, her death record in post #13).
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Old Friday 4th January 2019, 15:42   #25
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Is there a reason to retain "Stephan" as a middle name for Étienne Jacquinot ? I can't find it in any French source, so would concur with Mark (post #4) and Björn (post #8) -- I presume it was added at some point to explain the eponym, but didn't originally exist.
For some other "Étienne"'s also known a "Stephen"/"Stephan"/"Stephanus", see Saint-Étienne, Étienne Baluze, Étienne Hubert, Étienne Tempier, Étienne Fourmont, etc.
Richmond's take: http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/SP/Cert/cert00595a.jpg - "For Étienne Jacquinot, father of H. J. [Stephan = Étienne.]"

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