Clark's Grebe (1 Viewer)

Arbu · Feb 14, 2020

Is this a Clark's Grebe? The first photo looks good to me, with a lot of white on the flank and a bit of white in front of the eye. But the second photo, of the same bird, taken just a second earlier, seems to show the eye in the dark mask. It might be light I suppose.

Taken at Point Reyes, California about ten days ago. No doubt they are easier to separate in the summer.

Andrew Whitehouse · Feb 14, 2020

Looks more like Western to me e.g. too much dark around the eye (even in the first picture) and bill too yellowish.

fugl · Feb 14, 2020

Dto (but bill not yellow enough).

Andrew Whitehouse · Feb 14, 2020

fugl said:
Dto (but bill not yellow enough).

By 'too yellowish' I meant more yellow than orange-yellow.

Jefferson Shank · Feb 14, 2020

Andrew Whitehouse said:
Looks more like Western to me e.g. too much dark around the eye (even in the first picture) and bill too yellowish.

I agree with Western Grebe.

fugl · Feb 14, 2020

Andrew Whitehouse said:
By 'too yellowish' I meant more yellow than orange-yellow.

Not a slip of the pen, then (as I had assumed) so fair enough.

Arbu · Feb 15, 2020

OK then. But the picture of non breeding Western Grebe in my Sibley field guide must be somewhat inaccurate as the bill on this bird is a lot yellower than that, and there is a lot more white on the flank. But I agree the facial pattern is a better match.

I reckon I must have seen 50 Western Grebes in California and not one Clark's.

Nutcracker · Feb 15, 2020

Arbu said:
I reckon I must have seen 50 Western Grebes in California and not one Clark's.

If it's any consolation, I saw about 100 Western Grebes on Clear Lake CA a few years ago, and couldn't find a single Clark's :-C

KenM · Feb 15, 2020

If I may add according to Sibley....intermediate birds seen during the Winter, are un-identifiable and that some might be hybrids. :eek!:

Cheers

Nutcracker · Feb 15, 2020

KenM said:
If I may add according to Sibley....intermediate birds seen during the Winter, are un-identifiable and that some might be hybrids. :eek!:

Cheers

Aye, interesting that comment in Sibley - do hybrids only exist in winter? What happens to them in the summer? :-O

More seriously, has there been any genetic studies to prove they're different species, rather than just colour / plumage pattern morphs?

KenM · Feb 15, 2020

Nutcracker said:
Aye, interesting that comment in Sibley - do hybrids only exist in winter? What happens to them in the summer? :-O

More seriously, has there been any genetic studies to prove they're different species, rather than just colour / plumage pattern morphs?

Had crossed my mind Nutty, might be a case of getting “yer” sequential mtdnas out? :t:

Indobirder · Feb 15, 2020

Here's an example of a hybrid:
http://bcbirding.proboards.com/thread/11964/clarks-grebe-22-oct-24

There's also an interesting article linked in the last post.

Arbu · Jul 24, 2023

More grebes, this time from Banks Lake, Grand Coulee, Washington State, last month. Again I can only see Western.

rkj · Jul 26, 2023

I agree that all of the birds in this thread are Western Grebes. Not sure about other times and places, but Western are much more common than Clark's on the ocean in winter in California.

rkj · Jul 26, 2023

Nutcracker said:
If it's any consolation, I saw about 100 Western Grebes on Clear Lake CA a few years ago, and couldn't find a single Clark's :-C

I think you must have been quite unlucky; there are may ebird records of Clark's Grebe at Clear Lake, at all times of year.

Butty · Jul 26, 2023

rkj said:
there are ma[n]y ebird records of Clark's Grebe

Say n'more ☹️

Xelioszzapporro! · Jul 26, 2023

The second picture bird is definitely not a Clark's Grebe , it's a Western Grebe.

The Western has black patch even below his eye. While the Clark's Grebe has white patch around his eye area.

Arbu · Aug 5, 2023

Same thing with Lesser and Greater Sand Plover. I've seen hundreds. Across four countries. All Lesser.

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