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Laser pointers (2 Viewers)

Hello,

I am researching laser pointers for pointing out birds and found this thread. I would like to add some important info I have come across with regard to safety. If you search for "laser classes" you will find many hits which list the CLASS of lasers and how safe they are in different viewing scenarios. I found that you should be looking for a class 1 or 2 laser for safety. So, please read the info about classes before you buy. As for power, my thinking is that a 50mW laser is the sweet spot price wise, but you decide how much you want to spend and what power you want.

I finally decided on the 50 mW, Class 2 laser pointer in the link below. There are a couple of similar ones on the website, but this one has he best battery and is worth it.

http://www.laserpoints.com/50mw-532nm-handheld-green-laser-pointer-with-clip-black.html

It's Chinese and the free shipping takes a while. I've never done business with this outfit, so maybe it's a $20 crap shoot. I'll post again when I get it and try it out.

-jj
 
I finally decided on the 50 mW, Class 2 laser pointer in the link below. There are a couple of similar ones on the website, but this one has he best battery and is worth it.

http://www.laserpoints.com/50mw-532nm-handheld-green-laser-pointer-with-clip-black.html

It's Chinese and the free shipping takes a while. I've never done business with this outfit, so maybe it's a $20 crap shoot. I'll post again when I get it and try it out.

-jj


The one I linked is Chinese too and it's been fine, in fact, I lost my first and ordered another.
 
500 mW laser fall in class 4,

500mW is a helluva lot of laser for birding. I reckon you could almost cut metal with that one! I have never seen a laser like that used for birding.

The ones that are most used for birding are firmly below <50mW and most I have seen are 5-10 mW. More than enough for pointing at trees etc, and probably close to zero hazard with regards to scattered light.
 
Hi Andy,

Surely not if behind the light source?

For a Class 4 laser, even if behind the light source:

EYE INJURY HAZARD - DIFFUSE REFLECTION

The scattered light from the laser "dot" as viewed on a surface, can be an eye hazard. Avoid looking directly at the laser dot for more than a few seconds. The light is too bright if you see a sustained afterimage, lasting more than about 10 seconds.

The more powerful the laser, and the closer your eye is to the laser dot, the greater the chance of injury. This can occur during certain actions, such as aligning the beam or trying to hold the laser dot on a fixed location in order to burn a material.

Now a Class 4 laser admittedly has >= 500 mW power, and in this thread, no-one actually suggested to use a laser of that power class.

However, I believe some people recommended "at least 50 mW", and for someone not aware of the dangers associated with lasers, it potentially could seem like a good idea to jump straight to a Class 4 laser if the budget allows - which it very definitely isn't.

The laser safety site also states on Class 4 lasers:

DO NOT USE AS A LASER POINTER

Even if this laser looks like a pointer or flashlight, do not use this laser for pointing purposes. Class 4 lasers are too powerful to be used as pointers. Use a Class 2 (less than 1 mW) or Class 3R (less than 5 mW) laser for pointing purposes.

(Quotes are from http://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/4/ )

With regard to 50 mW lasers, here's an assessment from the Class 3 safety advice:

At the low end, around 5 to 50 milliwatts, a Class 3B laser poses a moderate risk of eye injury. It is unlikely that a handheld beam aimed from more than a few dozen feet away would cause injury -- laser light could not stay on one spot on the retina long enough for heat to build up to injurious levels. However, the risk is increased if the beam is held steady or if the laser is relatively close to the eye.

For example, if you're looking at your smartphone and someone accidentally shines a 50 mW laser on the reflective screen, that might cause eye injury in a small fraction of a second.

Class 3R lasers of up to 5 mW are considered eye-safe as it takes 0.25 s to reach dangerous heat levels, giving you time to blink and save your eye.

A 50 mW laser, being 10 times as powerful, can damage the eye in a tenth of this time, which means can easily cause eye damage before your blinking reflex can protect you. It also means that even a sweeping beam can cause eye damage.

So for anyone using a laser of > 5 mW, it's probably a good idea to read this page in order to be able to assess the risks and use it as safely as possible:

http://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/3B/

Personally, I would consider it a good idea to make it a rule to never hand over the laser to anyone else who might not be aware of the hazards associated with a powerful laser - for example because he mistakes it for just another low-powered laser pointer like the ones he has used a thousand times.

Regards,

Henning
 
@Henning: I agree completely.

While >5mW are potentially much more dangerous, they also create a lot more chance of flushing a bird when inadvertently pointing in e.g. foliage and thus scattering the laser beam.
So while some might be tempted to get a high-power laser, they are less efficient and plain dangerous (and forbidden in most countries).
 
Hi Temmie,

So while some might be tempted to get a high-power laser, they are less efficient and plain dangerous (and forbidden in most countries).

Thinking about making lasers safer, I just came across diffractive optics on the website Albatross linked:

https://www.laserfuchs.de/de/doe-de-r238

This would widen the beam, making it safer, while creating a more easily spotted pattern. Putting the bird in the centre of the circle (if we had a version without the central dot, of course) might be even better than merely pointing a dot at something near the bird, and telling everyone to look "1.5 m at the four o'clock position" for the bird.

The linked example has a radius of 3.4°, which is 60 mil ... might be usable, though perhaps a bit on the large side. They mention that they can easily do custom patterns, though.

As the lasers they sell for these optics are not "flashlight"-tyle self-contained units, that's not really a ready-to-use product yet, but maybe there's the potential for creating something that's tailored to meet the needs of birders :)

Regards,

Henning
 
I often find it helpful to use a green laser pointer while leading trips with our local birders. I usually just run the pointer against the tree and guide people to the branch that the birds on. I think this is the best way to help people get on the bird and the least chance of disturbing the bird. I have had good luck with this model in the link below. Let me know if you all have any questions.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194651-REG/meade_608002_green_laser_pointer.html
 
I often find it helpful to use a green laser pointer while leading trips with our local birders. I usually just run the pointer against the tree and guide people to the branch that the birds on. I think this is the best way to help people get on the bird and the least chance of disturbing the bird. I have had good luck with this model in the link below. Let me know if you all have any questions.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194651-REG/meade_608002_green_laser_pointer.html

This is what most people do I think?
 
Hi,

I used this one for some time too. It's just as good but a bit more expensive. I accidentally left it in a rental car.
https://www.highpointscientific.com/orion-skyline-deluxe-green-laser-pointer-05673

So I take it you were happy with this for birding purposes?

It's a Class 3R laser, which from the safety point of view seems like a good choice:

Class 3R lasers are considered safe when handled carefully. There is only a small hazard potential for accidental exposure. For visible-light lasers, Class 3R lasers' output power is between 1 and 4.99 milliwatts.

(http://lasersafetyfacts.com/3R/)

One added advantage of less powerful lasers is that you get more life from your batteries :)

I'd also expect a laser from a reputable firm like Orion to be inherently safer than a cheaper product due to superior quality control, in particular by better filtering of the invisible IR components of the beam. (These are just as damaging as the visible light, but a bit more dangerous as they won't trigger the protective blink reflex.)

Regards,

Henning
 
Yes, both models seemed to work well. I liked the Orion a bit better, but I don't have a reason for favoring it.

Hi,



So I take it you were happy with this for birding purposes?

It's a Class 3R laser, which from the safety point of view seems like a good choice:



(http://lasersafetyfacts.com/3R/)

One added advantage of less powerful lasers is that you get more life from your batteries :)

I'd also expect a laser from a reputable firm like Orion to be inherently safer than a cheaper product due to superior quality control, in particular by better filtering of the invisible IR components of the beam. (These are just as damaging as the visible light, but a bit more dangerous as they won't trigger the protective blink reflex.)

Regards,

Henning
 
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