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Canon 7D MkIII ....

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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 13:33   #76
temmie
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The only thing I know is DSLR still has an edge on mirrorless for long-lens wildlife photography, unless you spend more for your mirrorless set-up than an equal (sensor size / lens millimeters / F-number) DSLR setup.

Yes, you have a weight decrease with mirrorless, but if you e.g. compare to the PF Nikon lenses (that 300F is really small and light), the difference is negligible.
Olympus has a better (superior) sensor stabilizer in its OMD range bodies but if you combine it with its (excellent) 300mm lens, it's at least 50% more expensive than a similar Canon or Nikon setup.

There is quite some improvement to make (especially on stabilizer and sensor) for Canon, but at the moment, I am shooting very sharp pictures (from time to time!) and I am thus not desperately waiting (or going with the herd, making the leap to mirrorless) for a new camera. So I don't understand the canon bashing in this topic, at all.

To illustrate this, most of the shots below are cropped, some early morning thus poor light, all are size-reduced without sharpening afterwards, and with a 5-year old Canon 300mmF4 IS (first generation) + 1.4 converter II (a good but less than ideal lens combo, with 2 stops optical stabilizer), and the (now very famous because from this topic it seems a very bad camera) Canon 7D mark II, that is happily used by thousands if not millions.

Judge for yourself and tell me why I should be nervously looking at other systems.

https://observation.org/waarneming/v...60595?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...60388?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...60306?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...60241?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...93308?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...60171?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...60104?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...69774?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...69764?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...69728?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...70774?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...69678?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...69636?_popup=1
https://observation.org/waarneming/v...61664?_popup=1
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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 14:32   #77
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Exactly, but we're both birders who take pictures.
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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 15:00   #78
temmie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edenwatcher View Post
Exactly, but we're both birders who take pictures.
Rob
That's true, but I think most on this forum are birders with a camera, and still, I see some people desperately looking for upgrades while they will never make a penny from any shot they take.

Some -amateur / wannabe professional- photographers take their photography way to serious, I see them catering a public of flickr/instagram/FB fans but nothing more (for sure no paid shots) and they still think they have to invest 1000s of euros/dollars/pounds every 2 years in another system to keep up with those that are sponsored by the big brands.

It reminds me a bit of cycling. I am an amateur cyclist competing from time to time, and all I see these days are super expensive bikes with disc brakes (because the pros ride them), but they don't go any faster and they don't make any money from it.
All well if you do it for your own pleasure and each their own hobby, but running like hamsters in a mill, trying to keep up with the rat race spending more than monthly salaries on new stuff that is incrementally better, wouldn't be my definition of pleasure.
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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 16:14   #79
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Temmie, I am not sure I buy everything you write about cost and weight of mirrorless. I am using Panasonic: g85 and PL 100-400. This is a good enough setup that I get some keepers, even when doing purple martin in flight. So I tried to compare size/cost for a setup to give a similar reach using the nikon PF series as you mentioned. However, to get close I had to go for the PF500 and I chose a not top of the line body, the d7500 (similarly, my camera is not top of the pana line, that would be G9, and I included that camera body as well for the hell of it). So the comparison is (all numbers from DPReview except cost which was Amazon.com):
Weight incl lens Nikon 2180, g85 1490, G9 1643
Reach Nikon 750, g85 800, G9 800
Cost Nikon 4392, g85 2190, G9 2792 (in US$)

I like to have a zoom, and possibly should have hunted for a zoom setup for Nikon but that would certainly be heavier (Tamron 150-600 would have added about 550 grams to the nikon setup but would have brought the cost down to about the same as my g85 setup)

Anyway, this is a bit of a tangent to the original content of this thread

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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 16:22   #80
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by edenwatcher View Post
Blah, blah, blah. Yet still Canon has by far the largest market share for interchangeable lens cameras.

Rob
Quote:
Originally Posted by edenwatcher View Post
Reappraisal surely means cutting product lines. Those customers won't come back, regardless of the quality of the cameras. Those of us who use DSLRs will have to get used to the fact. It is very difficult to see how things will evolve, meanwhile enjoy what we've got...

Rob
Just like the biggest horse buggy maker ?
https://www.resilience.org/stories/2...g-to-car-smog/
That's a lot of doodoo .... must have been interesting times !

Cutting product lines is a zero sum game. Already as Etudiant has said, you can see the big manufacturers fighting it out for scraps in a significantly declining market - ergo the move to higher profitability FF segments like salmon swimming upstream, and the already evident discounting .....

In my view, rather than fighting it out in a lose-lose situation, the entire industry would be better off banding together to collaborate on a common curved sensor standard and suitable mount standards in considered formats. This would be a far more efficient use of resources delivering a quicker and cheaper change to consumers than the current virtually duplicated designs, minimally different feature sets, and pointless marketing differentiation wasting time, money, effort, and resources.

Unless the industry also addresses connectivity and instant easy processing/ storage/ sharing etc they will continue to lose market share to smartphones.

Curved Mirrorless Sensors, and Diffractive Optics Lenses are the only currently viable technology (with development) that will physically deliver smaller and much lighter photography systems per sensor size format.

This thread was not set up to be a 'Canon bashing' piece - rather the genuine excitement at the prospect of a new flagship APS-C model. What an exercise in frustration being a Canon customer is ! Great lenses (and cutting edge developments in them) - but the 7DII has been getting flogged by the Nikon D500 for more than 3 years now, and loyal customers (or prospective converts) have been getting dumped on from a great height.

I don't think it's too much to ask of a "market share leader" to have a fair dinkum go .......





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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 16:47   #81
Chosun Juan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
Temmie, I am not sure I buy everything you write about cost and weight of mirrorless. I am using Panasonic: g85 and PL 100-400. This is a good enough setup that I get some keepers, even when doing purple martin in flight. So I tried to compare size/cost for a setup to give a similar reach using the nikon PF series as you mentioned. However, to get close I had to go for the PF500 and I chose a not top of the line body, the d7500 (similarly, my camera is not top of the pana line, that would be G9, and I included that camera body as well for the hell of it). So the comparison is (all numbers from DPReview except cost which was Amazon.com):
Weight incl lens Nikon 2180, g85 1490, G9 1643
Reach Nikon 750, g85 800, G9 800
Cost Nikon 4392, g85 2190, G9 2792 (in US$)

I like to have a zoom, and possibly should have hunted for a zoom setup for Nikon but that would certainly be heavier (Tamron 150-600 would have added about 550 grams to the nikon setup but would have brought the cost down to about the same as my g85 setup)

Anyway, this is a bit of a tangent to the original content of this thread

Niels
Niels, that's quite alright - I think most of us here constantly balance those parameters (weight, performance, cost) to provide the best solution for our needs. There's probably a fair amount of interest in new products and development direction purely from being gearheads too and looking for that next improvement in our equations. Did I mention weight ?! lol.

The Panny's certainly offer some high spec featured bodies (given the physical limitations of the sensor size) - I think even the Nikki D500 has some improvements to make.

The Nikki PF lens range likewise is a bit of a standout performer (wallet stretching cost notwithstanding). About the only thing to say is that f5.6 makes a handy improvement on f6.3/7, especially at the larger sensor format size offering even better subject isolation. It is worthwhile noting that the Nikons also have a 1.3x in-camera crop factor too which brings the PF 500 to 1000mm @f5.6 which is pretty sweet.

It would be interesting to see what Canon users think is a comparable kit to the ones you list and see what the numbers turn out to be in comparison .......




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Old Thursday 30th May 2019, 12:57   #82
Chosun Juan
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Unhappy New Rumor: Canon 7D series - RIP

Well, that's that then.
If the looming D90 doesn't float your boat, Canon wants you to b*gger off elsewhere .......
https://www.canonnews.com/new-rumor-canon-7d-series-rip

No wonder the camera market is declining - it's a self fulfilling prophecy ......

If you don't build it - they won't come ......





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Old Thursday 30th May 2019, 16:05   #83
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To me the not releasing or making a 7d III is a big "drop dead" to their loyal customers. I was planning on getting a new one this year, but all the market shifting and new models with yet another mount have put me off. Instead I finally got a decent telescope.
If the 7d III really is dead I may opt out of canon altogether and see if something else is cheaper and better out there.
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Old Thursday 30th May 2019, 20:33   #84
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Originally Posted by lestat View Post
To me the not releasing or making a 7d III is a big "drop dead" to their loyal customers. I was planning on getting a new one this year, but all the market shifting and new models with yet another mount have put me off. Instead I finally got a decent telescope.
If the 7d III really is dead I may opt out of canon altogether and see if something else is cheaper and better out there.
So how do you know that something cheaper and better isn't the 90D?
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Old Friday 31st May 2019, 04:58   #85
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That last rumored specs I saw for the 90d were 10 fps at 32 MP with weather sealing and dual card slots and dual processors. Sounds pretty good.

I assume from calling it a 90d, it will have the ergonomics like the 80d which are close to the 5d layout, but with the flippy rotating screen you lose the left side buttons. I guess would be the big compromise, unless they cheap out on the shutter (the 7dii was 200k rated, I think) or some other features.

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Old Friday 31st May 2019, 09:52   #86
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@MJN Until the 90D is released you don't.

My biggest problem is the lack of clear communication from Canon.
As what you can see from leaked info / rumors the 90D will be a hybrid of the 80D and the 7dmkII. It will depend a lot on the built and the ergonomics and most important how it will handle in field instead of numbers on paper.

Like I said, Canon missed out on my money this year since it went to a scope and they also have lost my customer loyalty since I'll now be focusing as well on other brands. I'm not heavily invested in Canon lenses, but nevertheless it seems they're split on where to go and how to handle it. I despise not knowing on what to expect and what the cost will be.

Having EF EF-S and now the new mounting systems doesn't make it clear and straightforward to make a selection. The 7d and 7d2 used to be the go-to cameras for sporting and wildlife situations, but they no longer are even considered among the best. This -could- be remedied by a new model, but latest rumors have written off the 7d series. I have time now so let the market settle, but their policy comes at a price.
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Old Friday 31st May 2019, 19:07   #87
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Have Canon ever told you 12 months in advance what the next iteration of a camera will be? Or the cost of it. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't recall it.
If they take a 7D2 and replace the sensor with a class leading unit along with improved af it will be an excellent camera regardless of whether it's called 90D or 7D.
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Old Thursday 6th June 2019, 21:11   #88
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I also have been looking at other brands. In particular the Olympus OM series 4/3 w/300 mm lens. Been using canon for over 30 yrs but like others I have been pairing down lens to just 100-400ii and 7D2. So will see if Canon does 7d3 or not. As far as video could care less, just give me a good camera body In no rush but would like to upgrade at some point
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Old Thursday 6th June 2019, 21:16   #89
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Well just saw this on canon rumors
https://www.canonrumors.com/rest-wel...7d-series-cr2/
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Old Friday 9th August 2019, 08:54   #90
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90D to be announced 28th August

In about 3 weeks we will find out what all the 90D fuss is about.
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eo...tion-list-cr1/

For the next year? (and possibly forever?) this is as close as we can get to an upgraded 7D II, although it will be a different non-Pro animal. Dual Digics and ~32MP at 10fps sounds nice It remains to be seen whether the tracking and AF are up to 7D II levels, let alone beyond that to Nikon D500 levels.

I give the remote possibility of a 7D III one more year though not with any degree of confidence. Canon financials have taken another beating recently. It seems they are quite happy to not have a competitive product to challenge the Nikon D500 which has been running away with the title for over 3 years now - hardly a plan for prosperity !

If the new DSLR Flagship IDX III (hopefully with the oil spray issues fixed) doesn't spawn a 'little brother' 7D III next year, then I think we can safely say the gig is up .......

Even if the long awaited 7D III does finally make a Lazarus like appearance, the market is going to be so much more crowded with competitors that will have moved the game on again - the Sony a7rIV and it's by then likely 'twin' the Nikon Z8, the Sony a9II, the rumoured APS-C 'baby a9', and perhaps even a Nikon D7600 and /or D500S. All would hard for a 7D III to catch.

This is the trap that Canon has fallen into - the longer the wait (6 years+ c'mon !?!) the greater the expectations around vastly improved performance will be.


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Old Today, 20:05   #91
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If Canon decide to go down the mirrorless route with the 7D3, that's a straight 2 fingers up to me as a 7Dc and 500/4 user. Who's going to buy a new body with a new 500/4 mount at the same time. I've been waiting on the 7D3 so if it doesn't show then maybe sell my 10 year old 500/4 and get a Sony 200-600 and I'd have choice of great bodies.
I currently have the
7Dc
500/4
100-400 mk1
70-200 F2.8 mk2
16-35/4
plus flashes, cords, batteries etc.
A lot of money for an amateur to invest in a company which seems to do all it can to annoy it's customers. I also shoot Fuji as my carry everywhere bodies, they provide a route map so buyers can plan long term, it hasn't done their sales any harm.
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