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Plans to return sea eagles to Isle of Wight

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Old Friday 23rd November 2018, 14:28   #26
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Concerning whataboutism:

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Originally Posted by John Cantelo View Post
I'd have thought that there are a number of better areas to attempt doing so
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Originally Posted by Xenospiza View Post
but you might want to spend your money on wildlife that is actually endangered...
I heard from a trusted source that in all the other planned projects they heard the response: why don't you try, for example, White-tailed Eagles in the Isle of Wight?
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Old Friday 23rd November 2018, 15:55   #27
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I'e had a look at the map and I suppose the idea was to have them use the various small estuaries in the area as feeding grounds (are there any colonies of cormorants or other seabirds around? That would definitely be a selling point). The forests and other "wild" areas on the island itself look a bit small for a nest site though, particularly if as John said, there is lots of activity around the island. Perhaps the New Forest would do, although there don't seem to be any larger bodies of water in the immediate vicinity.


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Concerning whataboutism:





I heard from a trusted source that in all the other planned projects they heard the response: why don't you try, for example, White-tailed Eagles in the Isle of Wight?
Even if it's private money, there's plenty of other potential raptor projects (concerning more directly endangered species) they could spend it on.
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Old Friday 23rd November 2018, 16:04   #28
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Isn't it private money? Doesn't seem 'crazy waste' to me that they decided to spend money on a conservation/environmental issue, perhaps you could think better use, but that is far from making it crazy.

I also see other beneficial spin offs - flagship species frequently raise public profile of conservation far above the benefit to the exact species.
I fully accept the spin-off point, though presenting the eagles to the public would be as difficult on the IOW as on Mull - long distances, high chance of seeing not much and low capacity for throughput...

As for better use of Roy Dennis's charitable funds, we have this problem about Hen Harriers, and pockets where even Red Kites get shot and poisoned.....

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Old Saturday 24th November 2018, 07:26   #29
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'As for better use of Roy Dennis's charitable funds, we have this problem about Hen Harriers, and pockets where even Red Kites get shot and poisoned.....'

Are these the Red Kites that were (re-)introduced? wasn't that along the same lines as the proposal for re-introducing these Eagles, was that a waste of money as you have mentioned in an earlier message in this thread?
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Old Saturday 24th November 2018, 07:49   #30
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'As for better use of Roy Dennis's charitable funds, we have this problem about Hen Harriers, and pockets where even Red Kites get shot and poisoned.....'

Are these the Red Kites that were (re-)introduced? wasn't that along the same lines as the proposal for re-introducing these Eagles, was that a waste of money as you have mentioned in an earlier message in this thread?
No, and you will note that for kites its a localised problem: the overall project has been a rip-roaring success, as the ones that float past my central Farnborough windows attest. Which is why the pockets of 19th century practice need further attention. You don't need me to expand on the Hen Harrier's plight, but that is where raptor conservation funds need to be focused for the foreseeable future.

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Old Tuesday 4th December 2018, 17:39   #31
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Fat chance of success when they won't even let Buzzards live there


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Old Friday 14th December 2018, 12:21   #32
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There's a White-tailed Eagle in the New Forest at the moment, has been around for two or three days in the Milkham area if anyone's interested. No idea why it's not been reported on any of the news outlets.
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Old Friday 14th December 2018, 13:33   #33
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There's a White-tailed Eagle in the New Forest at the moment, has been around for two or three days in the Milkham area if anyone's interested. No idea why it's not been reported on any of the news outlets.
Good of you to post the news. I guess the rare bird operators have not been informed. Hope you've managed to see the bird.
P
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Old Saturday 15th December 2018, 09:21   #34
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Nice. Might have a look for that tomorrow, easy birding from next to the car!

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Old Sunday 16th December 2018, 09:37   #35
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It seems as though it's been seen again today (16th) in the same Milkham/Roe Inclosure area of the New Forest. By all accounts it's been there for ten days and aside from the FC supplying carcasses for it, they've also been keeping the news quiet or to selected people only.
It might be an idea to park in one of the A31 lay-bys and scanning northwards for it, rather than approaching the Inclosures it's frequenting (but knowing most twitchers I'm sure someone will go wandering in the woods to see it), but given that it sounds like it's being fed well, it might not be flighty.

Good Luck anyone who goes for it.
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Old Monday 17th December 2018, 03:51   #36
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Had to smile at you definition of high population densities.

Hong Kong's densities are eye-watering by comparison - over 7,000 per km 2, but White-bellied Sea Eagle (like White-tailed a Haliaeetus), Bonelli's Eagle and Crested Serpent Eagle all breeed here, albeit in small numbers.

Eagles also winter in the Deep Bay wetlands that lie in the shadow of high rise buildings from Shenzhen across the river. Eastern Imperial, Greater Spotted and Crested Serpent Eagles all performed well for me on my patch on Saturday.

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Old Monday 17th December 2018, 14:13   #37
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Hi Mike,

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Had to smile at you definition of high population densities.
Hehe, thanks for the perspective! :-)

But I guess your local eagles probably hang out at the fringes of the densely populated area, don't they? At least, that's what the eagles here in Hamburg do (which has a nominal population density of 2400 per km^2, but includes a lot of rural area and even a couple of North Sea islands in its state boundaries).

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Old Monday 17th December 2018, 15:09   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKinHK View Post
Had to smile at you definition of high population densities.

Hong Kong's densities are eye-watering by comparison - over 7,000 per km 2, but White-bellied Sea Eagle (like White-tailed a Haliaeetus), Bonelli's Eagle and Crested Serpent Eagle all breeed here, albeit in small numbers.
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Hehe, thanks for the perspective! :-)

But I guess your local eagles probably hang out at the fringes of the densely populated area, don't they? At least, that's what the eagles here in Hamburg do (which has a nominal population density of 2400 per km^2, but includes a lot of rural area and even a couple of North Sea islands in its state boundaries).

It's not the density of population per se that matters, but the density of gamekeepers - and that's far higher in rural Briain than almost anywhere else in the world

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Fat chance of success when they won't even let Buzzards live there

https://twitter.com/RaptorPersScot/s...33269469331456
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Old Monday 17th December 2018, 15:15   #39
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The young bird in Hampshire was probably only there for a few days because of the friendly ranger putting out a carcass on the open heath. Let's hope it avoids anyone having a pot shot, whatever their motive.
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Old Monday 17th December 2018, 15:23   #40
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The young bird in Hampshire was probably only there for a few days because of the friendly ranger putting out a carcass on the open heath. Let's hope it avoids anyone having a pot shot, whatever their motive.
So long as it stays on Forestry Commission land, it's safe. The moment it moves onto a pheasant estate, it's toast. So keeping it well fed at its current location will help keep it alive.
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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 11:10   #41
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An update and full article here.

Natural England has issued a licence to the Roy Dennis Wildlife Foundation for a five-year reintroduction programme based on the Isle of Wight.
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Old Friday 5th April 2019, 15:26   #42
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An update and full article here.

Natural England has issued a licence to the Roy Dennis Wildlife Foundation for a five-year reintroduction programme based on the Isle of Wight.
http://www.roydennis.org/
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Old Friday 5th April 2019, 15:57   #43
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Hi Mike,



Hehe, thanks for the perspective! :-)

But I guess your local eagles probably hang out at the fringes of the densely populated area, don't they? At least, that's what the eagles here in Hamburg do (which has a nominal population density of 2400 per km^2, but includes a lot of rural area and even a couple of North Sea islands in its state boundaries).

Regards,

Henning
Obviously every species is different behaviourally, and so by no means an indication of how White-tailed would do, but White-bellied eagle at least seems VERY tolerant of humans. A few years ago had what seemed to be a family (two adults, two juveniles) in central Malacca, hanging out on a large aerial at points. In Feb I also saw them right in Marina Bay near downtown Singapore.

In terms of White-tailed, my impression is that they can become acclimatised to people? Certainly there are populations in densely populated areas (Netherlands) and ones which seem fairly relaxed in their interactions with human settlements (Hokkaido). The undisturbed nesting sites is certainly probably the crux point, as a bird living somewhere isn't the same as nesting somewhere.

As to "couldn't we spend that money on something else", that's always going to be a question with any conservation initiative, but given the difficulty in getting them funded, I'm generally of the opinion that "charismatic megafauna" initiatives, while potentially a money sink if managed badly, is useful in as much as it provides money/protection for habitats for other species in the process, and can function as functionally an ad campaign to raise revenue which can help elsewhere.

Side note: has there ever been any interest in trying to establish urban goshawk populations in the UK using city-adapted birds from elsewhere in Europe? Seems like in many ways a stable population in London would actually be better protected than one in a rural location by default?
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Old Saturday 6th April 2019, 09:46   #44
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In terms of White-tailed, my impression is that they can become acclimatised to people? Certainly there are populations in densely populated areas (Netherlands) and ones which seem fairly relaxed in their interactions with human settlements (Hokkaido). The undisturbed nesting sites is certainly probably the crux point, as a bird living somewhere isn't the same as nesting somewhere.
Not uncommon now in Poland and Germany. They keep their distance of people, but are regular on urban lakes and rvers in Hamburg, Warsaw etc.

They avoid people around the nest, but are OK with a small reserve or a wooded island on a lake, surrounded by agricultural area.
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Old Saturday 6th April 2019, 17:47   #45
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[quote=Alexjh1;3835696]Obviously every species is different behaviourally, and so by no means an indication of how White-tailed would do, but White-bellied eagle at least seems VERY tolerant of humans. A few years ago had what seemed to be a family (two adults, two juveniles) in central Malacca, hanging out on a large aerial at points. In Feb I also saw them right in Marina Bay near downtown Singapore.

In terms of White-tailed, my impression is that they can become acclimatised to people? Certainly there are populations in densely populated areas (Netherlands) and ones which seem fairly relaxed in their interactions with human settlements (Hokkaido). The undisturbed nesting sites is certainly probably the crux point, as a bird living somewhere isn't the same as nesting somewhere.

As to "couldn't we spend that money on something else", that's always going to be a question with any conservation initiative, but given the difficulty in getting them funded, I'm generally of the opinion that "charismatic megafauna" initiatives, while potentially a money sink if managed badly, is useful in as much as it provides money/protection for habitats for other species in the process, and can function as functionally an ad campaign to raise revenue which can help elsewhere.

Side note: has there ever been any interest in trying to establish urban goshawk populations in the UK using city-adapted birds from elsewhere in Europe? Seems like in many ways a stable population in London would actually be better protected than one in a rural location by default?[/QUOTE]

No, probably because Peregrines are doing so well in Cities.
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Old Saturday 6th April 2019, 17:57   #46
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Hi Andy,

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No, probably because Peregrines are doing so well in Cities.
Could you elaborate? We have both urban peregrines and goshawks in Hamburg, so it doesn't seem they're mutually exclusive.

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Old Saturday 6th April 2019, 19:02   #47
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There certainly seem to be enough pigeons to go around.
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Old Monday 8th April 2019, 12:22   #48
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There certainly seem to be enough pigeons to go around.
And squirrels, which goshawk is rather partial to but would not really be of much interest to the peregrines
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Old Tuesday 9th April 2019, 08:52   #49
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That was my thinking, besides, very different nesting habitats. I'm not really surprised if it's not something that has been considered, as introducing specifically into a city would be a very atypical program, but the concept seemed a potentially interesting one at least?
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