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1st Winter male Common Redstart London?

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Old Wednesday 9th October 2019, 14:20   #1
KenM
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1st Winter male Common Redstart London?

I have very little experience of 1st Winter male Redstarts, am assuming that the contrasting tertial/secondaries indicate as such...further, is the amount of grey fringing the norm (if it is a male) in a 1st Winter Phoenicurus phoenicurus?

I do have other images.

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Old Thursday 10th October 2019, 05:58   #2
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The pale bar on the coverts would indicate a 1cy i think - nice pic and smart bird btw

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Old Thursday 10th October 2019, 12:25   #3
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The pale bar on the coverts would indicate a 1cy i think - nice pic and smart bird btw

Laurie -
Thanks Laurie .....here are a few more pics. I just don't know how ''typical'' (if there is such a word) this is for P.phoenicurus, as there does seem to be a fair amount of grey fringing with the suggestion of some pale panelling in the wing?

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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 04:20   #4
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Smart birds and that big eye is so photogenic

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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 04:52   #5
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It is in all respects a typical autumn Common Redstart. Wouldn't want to age it. Before the other Redstart-thread some time ago, I wouldn't have hesitated to sex it as female. But we learnt that there may be exeptionally female-like 1cy males...
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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 07:36   #6
KenM
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Originally Posted by rollingthunder View Post
Smart birds and that big eye is so photogenic

Laurie -
You're right there Laurie, the eyes have it!

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Originally Posted by CARERY View Post
It is in all respects a typical autumn Common Redstart. Wouldn't want to age it. Before the other Redstart-thread some time ago, I wouldn't have hesitated to sex it as female. But we learnt that there may be exeptionally female-like 1cy males...
The image was taken on a relatively late date 5.10.19 as was this further image 6 years earlier on the same date at Landguard Point, Suffolk. Having looked at the race ssp.samamisicus, one might be forgiven for drawing a comparison with the London bird?

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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 07:51   #7
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I seem to recall lots of this large group, also the Catharus Thrushes, having either a pale bar or a row of faint spots in their post-juv plumage to age them as 1w but don’t ask me about gender - these days you might offend.....even a bird sp

I couldn’t possibly comment on a Sammy as i have only seen breeding adults on passage in an Istanbul Spring but here’s a link to another in-depth article by the ever-informative Brian Small

https://www.britishbirds.co.uk/wp-co...2_N2_34_47.pdf

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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 07:57   #8
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This may be of interest regarding identifying " Ehrenberg's" Redstart, particularly younger birds in Autumn.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...cbAz8OMRfCIwoN
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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 08:02   #9
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It appears to be a watered-down version of the BB link i posted

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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 08:11   #10
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My eyes and brain weren't engaged Laurie, stronger coffee required.

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Old Friday 11th October 2019, 08:32   #11
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Quote:
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It appears to be a watered-down version of the BB link i posted

Laurie -
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Originally Posted by PYRTLE View Post
My eyes and brain weren't engaged Laurie, stronger coffee required.

P
Thanks Guys will “attempt” to ratify my images.
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