• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

I'm confused, need help on what I need for digiscoping (1 Viewer)

Shpenny

Well-known member
Hello all,

I'm thoroughly confused on what to buy for digiscoping. I have a Canon 40D camera and would like to purchase a scope to take bird photos. However, the more I read, the more I don't understand about adapters, eyepieces and everything else. My budget for a scope is in the $1000 to $1500 range. I've looked at some Nikons, but am open to any suggestions the more experienced members can offer.

Would anyone be willing to help me with all that I would need to start digiscoping with my Canon 40D camera? Any help would be appreciated.

I'm sorry if this is a pain to anyone, but I'm getting frustrated trying to learn what I need for this hobby.

Thanks for your time,
Jake
 
Since you already have your camera chosen, a Canon DSLR, you will be better off NOT choosing a scope made by a camera maker like Nikon or Pentax as their adapters require their cameras. You will also want scope that uses ED glass for its lens to eliminate chromatic aberration from your pics.

Given your budget, I recommend the Kowa TSN660 Prominar series. It is what I use with my Nikon D40. See pics below. You will also have to choose between an angled scope or a straight scope. Each has its shooting advantages and disadvantages with a DSLR. I have both so I can use whichever fits the shooting situation.

The next part you will need is the camera attachment adapter TSN-PA2 or TSN-PZ. These adapters have len's inside that magnify and correctly orient the image just like a eyepiece. But unlike with small compact digicams shooting afocally thru an standard eyepiece, you will never have vignetting. However, you will have to shoot your 40D in manual mode and will probably only have camera control over ISO and shutter speeds. The upside is the large sensor in your camera will allow MUCH higher ISO settings than a digicam so you can get better pics in low light conditions with a smaller and lighter scope.

The TSN-PA2 will shoot at a fixed Canon 40D effective focal length of 1280mm. The TSN-PZ is a very cool zoom adapter with effective focal range of 896mm-1344mm but will need the TSN-CR3 to connect to the scope. Finally, both the TSN-PA2 and TSN-PZ will require the TSN-CM3 Canon EOS camera mount to attach your 40D.

Hope this helps,
Rick
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2503.JPG
    IMG_2503.JPG
    141.5 KB · Views: 167
  • IMG_2504.JPG
    IMG_2504.JPG
    137.1 KB · Views: 215
  • IMG_2505.JPG
    IMG_2505.JPG
    120.5 KB · Views: 139
If you are using the scope purely for digiscoping then also read my thread on experiments with a dslr (link below). The last few pages of that thread cover my new camera, the Canon 450D and this will give you an idea on what to expect. On an astro style scope the image is already the correct way up for a digital slr and so doesn't need any sort of special optical adapter to mount to the dslr and this results in better quality photos. You also have a wider option over the amount of magnification with an astro style telescope as you can use the scope on it's own or with 1.4X, 1.5X, 1.7X, 2x and 3X teleconverters. Teleconverters like the Kenko Pro 300 range or the Canons own brand will result in very good quality images. Also by stacking converters and other methods you can get out to 5000mm and beyond if the conditions allow it. On the other hand if half the time you will want to use the scope for viewing and half the time for photography then go the spotting scope route. As I'm only interested in photography and image quality I chose an astro style scope.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=100519

Paul.
 
Last edited:
On the other hand if half the time you will want to use the scope for viewing and half the time for photography then go the spotting scope route. As I'm only interested in photography and image quality I chose an astro style scope.

Indeed, an astroscope will provide superior images and are the ideal choice if you digiscoping from a fixed location or close to your vehicle. I have several refractors and a C5 to fill this niche. However with few exceptions, most digiscoping rigs using astroscopes are not lightweight and portable enough for extended walks/hiking through the woods and NONE are weather resistant or fogproof. That is the beauty of the fieldscope. The rig in my pics weighs 3.8kg TOTAL including tripod and camera body. I can carry it easily in one hand or resting on my shoulder.

For those rare occasions where I really need to "reach out" I keep my compact digicam with 3.8x zoom that I can use afocally with a 45x widefield eyepiece and allows focal lengths aproaching 5000mm.

Lots of way to approach this, each has its pros & cons.

cheers,
Rick
 
My 600mm scope complete with camera and tripod weighs 4.9kg so only a difference of 1kg and I regularly take it on 3-4 mile walks through the local countryside. The only thing I don't do is go out in the rain but any scope can be made waterproof these days.

Paul.
 
I'm thoroughly confused on what to buy for digiscoping. I have a Canon 40D camera and would like to purchase a scope to take bird photos. However, the more I read, the more I don't understand about adapters, eyepieces and everything else. My budget for a scope is in the $1000 to $1500 range. I've looked at some Nikons, but am open to any suggestions the more experienced members can offer.

Hi Jake -

I suggest going through that entire thread that Paul linked to in his reply above. That is an excellent resource on digiscoping with DSLRs and IMO, should be pinned on the forum. I have just gone through this entire exercise over the past few days and can summarize my findings for you (keep in mind this is just the results of my research and not my personal experience - I am still in the decision-making stage myself, like you):

Generally speaking, there are 3 ways to shoot with your DSLR and a scope:
- Prime Focus: DSLR coupled to scope without eyepieces or lenses, but using teleconverters, barlows (an astronomic teleconverter) and extension rings to increase magnfication, as needed. This is the approach that has been yielding some of those great images that Paul and others are pioneering at ridiculous magnifications.
- Afocal coupling: this is the typical digiscoping method, and involves attaching a DSLR+lens to the eyepiece of the scope
- Eyepiece projection: here, the eyepiece is moved around to project a magnified image on the DSLR sensor

Click on this link and then click on "Imaging Methods" for more info:
http://www.televue.com/BirdScope/images/index.htm

The most common methods are the first 2.

You can do prime focus with scopes - simply buy a scope, the manufacturer's matching adapter for attaching a DSLR and you're off. But 2 caveats: 1/ You are going to be locked into a fixed system without a lot of flexibility and 2/ as Rick said, you may have compatibility issues with using a Canon DSLR with Nikon or Pentax DSLR adapters.

Also, I gather that the prisms of scopes introduce another element in the optical path which degrades quality. By all accounts, astronomical scopes do provide better image quality than birding scopes, albeit at the cost of weight and waterproofing (which, to me as a photographer who traipses around with a 500, a 100-400, a Gitzo 1548 tripod, a Wimberley head and a couple of bodies, is a non-issue).

So your other option is to use a system which allows you a degree of standardization and flexibility - an astro setup. Astro eyepieces come in standard 1.25" mounts. Some of them are pre-threaded to accept cameras (eg, Baader Hyperion eyepieces), while on others, you can clamp an adapter which provides a thread (CNCSupply makes these threads).

With these, what you do is as follows:
- attach a T-ring to the camera mount
- attach a T-adapter to the eyepiece
- pair the camera w/ T-ring to the T-adapter on the eyepiece and you're off to the races. You will need to add in some extension tubes in order to get the setup to focus, and also possibly teleconverters/barlows to boost the magnification.

Now you have a system where you can add/remove components, gain magnification, try all 3 methods mentioned above, swap eyepieces, etc. A very flexibile combo.

Of course, you will get best results with this setup if you put those eyepieces into an astro refractor telescope. You can also compromise and get a Pentax scope, which accepts 1.25" eyepieces and so allows you to build a flexibile system and retain some of the benefits of a traditional scope, although you'll find images are going to be somewhat better with a refractor (better optical design, no prism in between).

I have ended up settling on a Televue 85 setup, partly because of the great reviews it has gotten and also because image sales are an end-goal for the photos I plan to take with this rig. Were it strictly for personal use, I would have gotten the a WO Megrez 80 ($900) or the Skywatcher scope Paul mentioned.

Start at www.cncsupply.com and check their T-ring section for more info. Then also visit alpineastro.com and see their section on Photography for more info on options.

Good luck with your search and ask away if you have more questions.

Vandit
 
support the above comments from Paul and Vandit,, I use an Olympus E3 tied to the back of my TeleVue TV85 scope,, use in prime mode via the T mount as well as a tele coupler of 1.4 X on the camera body and then to the T mount,, your 40D will do fine job for you with a good scope on the front end,,

I also use a 3.5 Questar but due to the focal length it must be a bright day,, it can be a tad fussy so would not recommend for a first scope,, also on the higer end of the $$$,,

take a look at http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/ in the refractor adds,, TeveVue scopes are available there for some nice prices,,

I wanted a very rigid tripod as I also do some astro work,, I am not one to do the walk about looking for the birds as there are several areas near by that I can enjoy with a good variety of birds from one observation location,, I have two Bogen 3046s with 3063 heads which work fine,, they are not that heavy to move about but certainly would not want to haul around for the day,,
 
Well if you are going to go the astro telescope route I recommend the Celestron C5 SCT. The 5" aperture and resolution will destroy smaller APO refractors in low light conditions, it weighs about the same but is much shorter so has less "moment arm" allowing for a less expensive tripod/mount. It will have a close focus of only about 4m and is faster to infinity. It also has a native focal length of 1250mm, which is about the sweet spot for most shots anyway.

cheers,
Rick
 
Last edited:
Well if you are going to go the astro telescope route I recommend the Celestron C5 SCT. The 5" aperture and resolution will destroy smaller APO refractors in low light conditions, it weighs about the same but is much shorter so has less "moment arm" allowing for a less expensive tripod/mount. It will have a close focus of only about 4m and is faster to infinity. It also has a native focal length of 1250mm, which is about the sweet spot for most shots anyway.

cheers,
Rick

The light gathering is better at f10 as opposed to around f15 on an 80mm refractor. It would have to be pretty low light before that became an issue though, like after sunset. I guess you would need some sort of focal reducer for anything at close/medium range as with the crop factor you are already at around 2000mm or 2500mm on an Olympus. Close focus on a refractor is around 3m to infinity so no difference there. It's an interseting scope though and produces ok photos. One downside to all scopes of this design is that they produce awful bokeh, just like mirror lenses.

Paul.
 
Bokeh?? I think the depth of field is so large with a C5 the entire frame would be in focus in most shooting scenarios anyway. Perhaps, I am just naive but I think "bokeh" is something that can be fixed/added in processing anyway.o:D

And since we have thrown out weight/portability (at least my definition) with this rig already, I'd want a full frame camera over and APS-sized one anyway so "crop factor" does not factor in. Still with the Canon 40D mentioned, even 2000mm is in the "zone" for most shots. And Celestron does sell a F6.3 reducer if needed. Biggest shooting issue is the image is reversed right to left if I remember correctly.

cheers,
Rick
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 16 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top