RFI southeast Europe targets (1 Viewer)

Larry Sweetland · Feb 11, 2020

Toying with an overland trip to attempt to connect with 4 species in southern/Eastern Europe, and hoping for some site ideas to start with.

Needs to be at good time of year to see Levant Sparrowhawk and Semi-collared Flycatcher, preferably at nearest reliable sites to drive to from UK. Then 2 side trips, pref to nearest reliable sites at that time of year for Rock Partridge and Saker Falcon. I'm guessing it might be a couple of days drive between sites.

Bit of a headscratcher, but hoping someone on here with a knowledge of southeast Europe might have some logistical ideas.

Thanks to anyone attempting to help tackle this conundrum,

Larry

Bismarck Honeyeater · Feb 11, 2020

Larry Sweetland said:
Toying with an overland trip to attempt to connect with 4 species in southern/Eastern Europe, and hoping for some site ideas to start with.

Needs to be at good time of year to see Levant Sparrowhawk and Semi-collared Flycatcher, preferably at nearest reliable sites to drive to from UK. Then 2 side trips, pref to nearest reliable sites at that time of year for Rock Partridge and Saker Falcon. I'm guessing it might be a couple of days drive between sites.

Bit of a headscratcher, but hoping someone on here with a knowledge of southeast Europe might have some logistical ideas.

Thanks to anyone attempting to help tackle this conundrum,

Larry

I’m hoping to do the Partridge and Falcon (that famous pub) double next Spring, so would be interested in knowing the closest reliable sites to each other that they appear.

DMW · Feb 11, 2020

Not going to claim it's the closest site, but Rock Partridge is pretty much nailed-on in the hills just above Dubrovnik airport in Croatia. Took all of 5 minutes scanning from the road.

I still need Semi-C, and have been thinking about a long weekend for this myself. Judging by ebird, the Gorica forest just inland from Byala on the Bulgarian coast looks reliable.

Steve Lister · Feb 11, 2020

Bulgaria. Rock Partridge in the hills/mountains not far from Sofia, then on to the Black Sea coast for Levant Sparrowhawk and Semi-c Flycatcher.
Not sure about Saker though, but if you are going overland you could get them in Hungary on the way.

Steve

Larry Sweetland · Feb 11, 2020

Thanks for the ideas so far. Any thoughts on Dubrovnic for Rock Partridge, and down towards west side of Greece for nearest sites for Semi-c and L. Sparrowhawk, plus nearest Sakers (Hungary?) before or after. Or are the flycatcher and sparrowhawk scarce in that part of their range? (just looking at field guide range maps)

James Lowther · Feb 11, 2020

Dubrovnik rock partridge are potentially more difficult than DMW says.
In 2017 I also saw one (fairly briefly) within seconds of arrival but none at all over the next few hours looking.
cheers,
James

Larry Sweetland · Feb 11, 2020

Steve Lister said:
Bulgaria. Rock Partridge in the hills/mountains not far from Sofia, then on to the Black Sea coast for Levant Sparrowhawk and Semi-c Flycatcher.
Not sure about Saker though, but if you are going overland you could get them in Hungary on the way.

Steve

Do you happen to know of/ have experience of any particular sites Steve?

Or anyone know any specific sites for any of those birds in "the Balkans"?

opisska · Feb 11, 2020

You gonna drive there from the UK? And I thought I was insane when I did a road trip of northern Greece from Prague

This thread also brought me another surprise - I had no idea Levant Sparrowhawk occurs regularly anywhere in Europe!

We have Sakers in Czech Republic, but there isn't a reliable site anymore and they are kinda rare, it's a matter of luck to bump into one. In general it's a tricky species, I don't think they are common anywhere, just scattered. We also quite struggled with Rock Partridge, eventually saw just one on a remote peak in Greece.

DMW · Feb 11, 2020

James Lowther said:
Dubrovnik rock partridge are potentially more difficult than DMW says.
In 2017 I also saw one (fairly briefly) within seconds of arrival but none at all over the next few hours looking.
cheers,
James

I can only speak to my own experience really, but we spent several days at Cavtat and saw Rock Partridges every time we looked for them, without any difficulty. That was in late May or early June 2017. If there are any easier sites for the species, I'm not aware of them.

James Lowther · Feb 11, 2020

DMW said:
I can only speak to my own experience really, but we spent several days at Cavtat and saw Rock Partridges every time we looked for them, without any difficulty. That was in late May or early June 2017. If there are any easier sites for the species, I'm not aware of them.

Maybe I was just a bit unlucky then, but only one bird (for me) in quite a few hours over 3 days suggests they are missable. And definitely worth Larry building in a couple of attempts just in case
Cheers
James

Larry Sweetland · Feb 12, 2020

opisska said:
This thread also brought me another surprise - I had no idea Levant Sparrowhawk occurs regularly anywhere in Europe!

We also quite struggled with Rock Partridge, eventually saw just one on a remote peak in Greece.

For the sparrowhawk maybe it doesn't?? I"m just going on field guide range maps.

For the partridge, can you remember the actual spot where you saw it by any chance?

opisska · Feb 12, 2020

Larry Sweetland said:
For the sparrowhawk maybe it doesn't?? I"m just going on field guide range maps.

For the partridge, can you remember the actual spot where you saw it by any chance?

They do - your question made me immediately open ebird and see that there are plenty of reports. Which is quite strange to me because I don't recall ever seeing any outside of Georgia/Armenia! So maybe you should investigate how common they are?

The spot with the Partridge I thought I can't possibly remember, but it turns out I wrote coordinates in my report - it's in Czech, so not much use for you, but the place is 38.5054, 22.3113. We actually drove a car within 15 minutes walk of the peak, but I would not recommend it unless it's a rental

Larry Sweetland · Feb 12, 2020

opisska said:
The spot with the Partridge I thought I can't possibly remember, but it turns out I wrote coordinates in my report - it's in Czech, so not much use for you, but the place is 38.5054, 22.3113. We actually drove a car within 15 minutes walk of the peak, but I would not recommend it unless it's a rental

Thanks :t:, that may well prove useful if I end up doing a shorter range trip to that well known establishment the Partridge and Falcon (having a pint or two with Bismark Honeyeater), and abandon any silly ideas of turning it into a pub crawl to the Hawk and Flycatcher. For example if I can find a fairly reliable site for Saker in Hungary (though of course I appreciate this may be a sensitive issue, as it's a scarce bird of prey). I can then simply stroll up your hill and be pestered by a swarm of Rock Partridges

:t:

I must admit, I didn't think this would be quite as simple a question as "anyone got any site details for the nearest places to Bristol to have a good chance of Red-legged Partridge, Peregrine, Sparrowhawk, and Pied Flycatcher?", but I wasn't expecting BF's knowledge to be quite this scant on this one

:smoke: :-O

Steve Lister · Feb 12, 2020

Have you looked at the records mapped on eBird?

My spring visit to Bulgaria was back in 2003 so things will have changed since then.

Steve

Larry Sweetland · Feb 12, 2020

Steve Lister said:
Have you looked at the records mapped on eBird?

My spring visit to Bulgaria was back in 2003 so things will have changed since then.

Steve

I had a quick look Steve, and I'll give ebird a go again for sure, but I find ebird really hard to navigate, which admittedly is me being indescribably rubbish at all things techy).

I tried doing it by species with Levant Sparrowhawk, but couldn't work out how to zoom in on where the actual sightings were. I also tried hotspots and clicked a few of the many at random in the general area, but none of the ones I chose had sightings of any of my target species. I'm sure there must be an easy way to get to the info on ebird I want, ie where are the nearest sites where these species are regularly seen, but I can't work out how to do it...yet!

Can you recall to names of the sites where you saw the hawk and flycatcher?

opisska · Feb 12, 2020

Larry Sweetland said:
I had a quick look Steve, and I'll give ebird a go again for sure, but I find ebird really hard to navigate, which admittedly is me being indescribably rubbish at all things techy).

I tried doing it by species with Levant Sparrowhawk, but couldn't work out how to zoom in on where the actual sightings were. I also tried hotspots and clicked a few of the many at random in the general area, but none of the ones I chose had sightings of any of my target species. I'm sure there must be an easy way to get to the info on ebird I want, ie where are the nearest sites where these species are regularly seen, but I can't work out how to do it...yet!

Can you recall to names of the sites where you saw the hawk and flycatcher?

If you go to https://ebird.org/map/levspa1 you should be able to zoom easily, with mouse wheel, or fingers if on a phone. Better yet, click "shiw points sooner" in the box on the right, to get ... points sooner (while zooming in). Also I recommend using the filters at the top to limit sightings to the appropriate part of the year and say last ten years, as it yas some veeeery old records. The hotspots map is rubbish if you look for a specific species, but the species maps are great.

Larry Sweetland · Feb 12, 2020

opisska said:
If you go to https://ebird.org/map/levspa1 you should be able to zoom easily, with mouse wheel, or fingers if on a phone. Better yet, click "shiw points sooner" in the box on the right, to get ... points sooner (while zooming in). Also I recommend using the filters at the top to limit sightings to the appropriate part of the year and say last ten years, as it yas some veeeery old records. The hotspots map is rubbish if you look for a specific species, but the species maps are great.

Thanks, that's really helpful. A bit scary looking at Levant Sparrowhawk though. for the jun-jul filter every spot I clicked on throughout the Balkans only had one or two reports, so can't really get a feel of which of those locations are "sites for the species" or just random spots where the observer got lucky. Either Levant Sparrowhawk is very rare throughout the Balkans as a breeding bird, or there is simply not enough input into ebird to get a picture of what's going on. There looked to be more observations logged during Apr-May, but again are they just random? :smoke:

opisska · Feb 12, 2020

Larry Sweetland said:
Thanks, that's really helpful. A bit scary looking at Levant Sparrowhawk though. for the jun-jul filter every spot I clicked on throughout the Balkans only had one or two reports, so can't really get a feel of which of those locations are "sites for the species" or just random spots where the observer got lucky. Either Levant Sparrowhawk is very rare throughout the Balkans as a breeding bird, or there is simply not enough input into ebird to get a picture of what's going on. There looked to be more observations logged during Apr-May, but again are they just random? :smoke:

Maybe pick a common species of raptor in the area (maybe just Eurasian Sparrowhawk?) and judge how much more reports are there? I would expect this to be quite heavily "ebirded" area, as many visiting birders do go there. For local birders, ebird is very variable - for example in the Czech Republic we have a much better local database when it comes to user comfort, so very few people put anything on ebird, but some countries do pretty much everything there ...

If all fails, there are some wonderful Levant Sparrowhawk sites in Armenia

GDK · Feb 13, 2020

Hi Larry,

I have also seen Rock Partridge at Dubrovnik Airport area and agree with Duncan it is probably one of the most accessible sites. Check from the road up to this restaurant and also the Ronald Brown Walkway heading down hill from near there.

I also saw it in a couple of places in Montenegro. Details in this trip report.

Cant help with the other 3 species, I havent seen them either. Does look like the Bulgarian coast is a good opportunity for the sparrowhawk and flycatcher. A lot of ebird records for the sparrowhawk seem to be migration, so check monthly records. There are a few around Semi-C sites in the forests by the Black Sea coasts by the looks of it.

Cheers,

Larry Sweetland · Feb 13, 2020

Thanks. So at the moment, the cold reality is looking like:- Hortbagy area for Saker, on to Dubrovnik for Rock Partridge, then on to Black Sea coast for the flyc and Sprawk. I'll need to get up early and have a hearty breakfast before setting off then. :eat:

Anyone had any experience (positive or negative) of looking for Saker Falcon without a guide at Hortbagy or elsewhere "en route". Or heard about anyone who has?

Shame there isn't a site somewhere in the Balkans where you can sit outside your van having breakfast while the Semi-collared Flycatcher-chasing Levant Sparrowhawk have to constantly dodge the Rock Partridge-flushing Sakers. But you can't have everything I suppose :king:

RFI southeast Europe targets (1 Viewer)

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