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Cell tower radiation harms birds

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Old Thursday 11th January 2018, 17:12   #326
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@ hwinbermuda Didn't mean to mis-paraphrase you. I merely wanted to say that you had raised this issue by way of introducing the two papers about regulatory agency bias. No offense or cherry-picking intended.
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Old Friday 12th January 2018, 09:50   #327
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@ Jos That's really sad. What sort of trees--pine, spruce, deciduous, mixed? If this is the only area with affected trees, do you think the cell tower radiation might be killing them or do you think it's something else?

@ Borjam Isn't 100 mW/20 dBm the power, not the frequency? The frequency of Wi-Fi is usually 2.4 GHz, and it is the frequency which causes harm, even at low power. As I understand it, once you have generated a frequency wave, it just continues until something stops it--in this case, trees. Also you have to take into account the frequencies/microwaves being generated by mobile device use, which is considerable when you have large numbers of users virtually all the time, as is the case here. You have a long, narrow rectangle of a camp with four or five times the population it was intended to accommodate, with 24 hour Wi-Fi signal, and which also happens to be under a cell tower. That's a lot of microwaves.
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Old Friday 12th January 2018, 10:24   #328
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@ Jos That's really sad. What sort of trees--pine, spruce, deciduous, mixed? If this is the only area with affected trees, do you think the cell tower radiation might be killing them or do you think it's something else?
In my case, it is not sad news - dead and dying wood is a valuable resource in ecosystems and generally one that is rare due to forestry practice to remove dead wood. This particular area is proving itself to be exceptionally good for species such as woodpeckers that are exploiting the abundance of die-back trees and other species that are moving in as the habitat changes.

Despite the close proximity of cell towers, they are not responsible - think of something furry and with a flat tail, they are guilty :)
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Old Friday 12th January 2018, 11:31   #329
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@ Jos Beavers? Thought they were western hemisphere. Question: why only this area between the cell towers and not elsewhere? I agree that dead/dying trees are good for the ecosystem but can't see why this area only.

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Old Friday 12th January 2018, 11:58   #330
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Resonance/Microwaves in cars

In my previous post about trees I quoted Balmori, citing Vokrodt, saying that microwaves cause the cellular membranes of trees to resonate. Cells contain water, and changing the frequency can change the way water flows. For a demonstration see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uENITui5_jU

The following link to the article "Welcome to the V2V Beehive World" expresses some of the concerns--not microwaves--surrounding wireless technology in cars. However, it's pretty obvious that with V2V, cars are constantly emitting wireless signals and also have Wi-Fi inside the cars, so traveling down a highway will be moving through microwave radiation soup, with effects for both the people inside the cars and any life form near the highways. We won't be giving up our 1975 VW camping van any time soon, and as for a new car---never. Here's the link: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...e-world?page=0

Microwave radiation aside, isn't anyone worried about the other issues to do with wireless cars and devices?
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Old Friday 12th January 2018, 12:04   #331
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@ Jos Beavers? Thought they were western hemisphere. Question: why only this area between the cell towers and not elsewhere? I agree that dead/dying trees are good for the ecosystem but can't see why this area only.
Indeed beavers. They have 'destroyed' a vast area of previously closed-canopy woodland - after blocking a stream, area of many hectares flooded and, ongoing, the trees slowly die. Then, a further zone around the flooded area, they chew down everything! In what was once woodland, as reeds colonise, I now have booming Bitterns in spring!

Pictures below illustrate before they caused much change and after a few years ('after' picture is some years ago, much more open now). Picture with dog to illustrate the size of the beaver lodge.

Woodland away from wet zone completely healthy, and I am allowing an area of meadow to regenerate into woodland to replace the area depleted by the beavers. Healthy forest zone and regenerating areas are closer to the cell towers and no signs of ill-health to trees, plus good numbers of breeding birds, etc.
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Old Friday 12th January 2018, 14:49   #332
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@ Jos Beavers? Thought they were western hemisphere.
The Eurasian Beaver occurs in Bulgaria, albeit in the north, so that would be the nearest to Greece. North of there and east to France, the population is recovering well in most places. It's bigger than the American Beaver, which unfortunately has been introduced in NW Russia, just east of central Finland...
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Old Friday 12th January 2018, 15:22   #333
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There are a couple of re-introductions of European beaver going on in the UK. Their dams hold up water and prevent downstream flooding is the hypothesis being tested, as well as diversifying the ecosystem. As far as I've heard phase 1 went well and is being expanded.

Nice distribution map on Wiki - doesn't show the UK introductions though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_beaver

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Old Saturday 13th January 2018, 10:10   #334
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Interesting about Eurasian beavers. I used to see them in the US as a child, but didn't know they existed in Europe. There aren't any here or in Italy, where I've lived, nor did I hear about them when I lived in London.

Obviously Jos and I are having very different experiences concerning cell towers and the effects thereof, and it has occurred to me that there might be an explanation for this. One, obviously, is that microwave/cell tower radiation doesn't affect nature. Set against that is the number of people who have observed that it does--someone at the RSPB wrote to me that they get a number of letters from people like me and Mark Broomhall. I have talked to and corresponded with a large number of people who have seen effects, as I have. I personally believe it does affect nature. For a couple of illustrated guides to tree damage from cell tower radiation, see the attached documents.

However, if you believe that cell tower radiation affects nature, it might still be possible to explain why Jos is not observing the kinds of things that I and other people are. One explanation is traffic. Lithuania is not a densely populated country, and it may be that the number of devices connecting to the cell towers near Jos is relatively low, with many quiet periods. Increased traffic increases the radiation levels. On Samos, in contrast, the towers are very busy, with a lot of users at any one time, and these are increasing.

Another explanation as to why Samos and parts of Greece may be particularly affected is the amount of microwave radiation generated by both Greek and Turkish military radar and communications. For instance, the top of a Turkish mountain only a mile away from a beach backed by a wetland nature reserve that used to have a great many birds of different species. Nowadays the top of the mountain bristles with radar and communications equipment all beamed at Samos, the birds are mostly gone and many of the tamarisk trees that line the beach are dying. Wireless signals from military installations throughout Greece and especially along border areas is bound to be very high on both sides, and rising as tensions increase. Microwave radiation from military sources may be a major element of the problem here, explaining why it is so acute and graphically illustrating why it is not a good thing.

As the world gears up for 5G, you have to ask yourselves, do you want to see what is happening here happen where you live, if it isn't already? There is, I think, a tipping point, where everything goes downhill rapidly. At a certain stage, it may not be possible to recover. Is it worth it?

There's a good clip on YouTube called "5G-A Real Terror" that is worth watching. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nCygMtB4CI
Note the dying vine around the smart meter.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2017_Observation_Guide_ENG_FINAL_RED.pdf (4.44 MB, 11 views)
File Type: pdf WirelessKillsTrees.pdf (1.11 MB, 10 views)

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Old Saturday 13th January 2018, 11:43   #335
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If you believe that cell tower radiation affects nature, it might still be possible to explain why Jos is not observing the kinds of things that I and other people are. One explanation is traffic. Lithuania is not a densely populated country, and it may be that the number of devices connecting to the cell towers near Jos is relatively low, with many quiet periods. Increased traffic increases the radiation levels. On Samos, in contrast, the towers are very busy, with a lot of users at any one time, and these are increasing.
Sorry, don't buy your theory. Lithuania is the most connected country in Europe and, while rural areas may be not be densely populated, I would suppose the area around the capital is more densely populated than Samos, and most certainly has a higher number of connected devices. Why not the catastrophic declines here that you report everywhere?

And neat use of wording with "why Jos is not observing the kinds of things that I and other people are". Suggests I am alone in not observing what you believe you are - do remember you are trawling the internet looking for persons whose observations seem to fit your purpose, sometimes misquoting them in the process. If you look for people that support any point of view, it is not difficult to find. When persons point out to you the possible flaws in your methods, you ignore them and they eventually get bored and go away - good way to gather a mountain of evidence to support a cause.

Remember also that there are observations from the very same areas that you describe as devoid of birds that report quite the opposite, an abundance of birds. Also do note that some species, eg House Sparrows, that you report as in decline 'due to cell towers' that are in fact showing signs of recovery in countries where cell phone coverage is dense and increasing, eg Britain.
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Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 10:14   #336
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@ Jos You don't have to "buy my theory", but you object to my wording while doing precisely what you accuse me of doing: using words selectively. Yesterday I hypothesized that lower volume of traffic may explain why you are not seeing a decline in birds where you live, and you reply by talking about the capital of Lithuania, which surely does have more traffic than rural areas. Is your land adjacent to the capital then, or is it located in a rural area? If your land is in a rural area, then my point that there is likely a low volume of wireless traffic is probably correct, whether or not RF radiation has the effect on birds, which I believe it does. If your land is adjacent to or near the capital, with heavy use of the cell towers, then say so--it would make your point.

As for whether Lithuania is or isn't seeing the same sort of "catastrophic declines [i] report everywhere, I don't have enough information. I do know that Birdlife International is worried about bird declines generally--I have cited their statements that this year, 45% of migrating birds failed to reach the arctic via the west coast of the Americas, and that one in eight birds globally is now threatened, including birds that were once common or numerous. The IUCN Red List report says that "Rates of biodiversity loss in the EU are worrying." The same report says that there are large gaps in knowledge about bird species: 13% of countries where 50% or more of the short-term population trends in bird populations are unknown, and 19 countries in which 50% of the long-term population trends are unknown. Where does Lithuania fit into this? It is not a rich country, and in my experience, poor countries tend to have fewer birdwatchers and fewer people who officially count birds, gather data and participate in conservation activities. Is Lithuania one of the countries for which either long-term or short-term data are missing?

As you see from the above paragraph, I am not relying on "trawling the internet looking for persons whose
observations seem to fit [my] purpose." Bird populations are declining globally; that is a fact. What we are disputing is not that fact, but the role of wireless communications is playing in bird, insect and other declines. I have presented a good number of studies, along with Broomhall's report, to illustrate that other people besides myself are observing that microwave radiation affects birds (and other things). Therefore "Jos is not observing the kinds of things that I and other people are" is also a statement of fact. It does not impugn you in any way to say that you are not reporting a decline in bird numbers associated with cell tower radiation. For whatever reason, you are not observing the same things that I am. It does not suggest that you are alone in not observing them--you are reading that into what I said, and I can't help that.

As for "flaws in my methods" which have been pointed out, I have admitted the limitations of what I can personally accomplish to prove my case. This is one reason I have supplied so many studies. I recognize that I have, at most, a correlation, and that a correlation is not proof. If it were 100% proven that wireless technologies were decimating nature, they would have already been banned, and we would not be having this discussion. The fact that nature charities like Buglife UK has raised this topic in the EU via the EKLIPSE Mechanism says that there is concern among nature NGOs that microwave radiation may be having an adverse impact on the environment. So does the fact that EMR has been identified as a global conservation challenge. The Sutherland document, which I will attach, is co-authored in part by the chief scientist of Birdlife International, Stuart Butchart.

As for "reports from the very same areas that [i] describe as devoid of birds report quite the opposite", you mentioned only one person visiting the Evros Delta and reporting "lots of birds", to which I replied that we had observed 40+ species ourselves, only in small numbers, and that there were far fewer birds than on previous visits. Since what you reported to me was totally lacking in specifics (species and numbers) and I have heard no other contradictory reports, I suggest you supply some concrete information.

As for house sparrows, I have posted studies on these, and I will re-post them here. The conservation director of the RSPB wrote to me that the Everaert-Bauwens study on sparrows is considered to be an excellent one. As for sparrows showing signs of recovery, have you got any specifics on that--a study, for instance, that you could post?

You don't have to "buy my theory" in the sense of agreeing that microwave/cell tower radiation harms birds. However, it is not "my" theory inasmuch as I am not the first person to propose it; I have merely observed phenomena that suggest the theory is correct. Ad hominem attacks are not helpful in having a civilized discussion. Read some of the studies, dispute them by all means, post counter-studies if you wish and I will read them.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Sutherland2018.pdf (1.44 MB, 11 views)
File Type: pdf Articles by Alfonso Balmori.pdf (5.68 MB, 8 views)
File Type: pdf Everaer Bauwens Sparrows.pdf (246.9 KB, 9 views)

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Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 12:14   #337
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Is your land adjacent to the capital then, or is it located in a rural area? If your land is in a rural area, then my point that there is likely a low volume of wireless traffic is probably correct, whether or not RF radiation has the effect on birds, which I believe it does. If your land is adjacent to or near the capital, with heavy use of the cell towers, then say so--it would make your point.
I have land and feeding stations both in a rural area and immediately adjacent to the city - abundance of birds at both. I also live in the city, so probably am a little qualified to comment on birds living within the capital region.

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I have cited....

The IUCN Red List report says that "Rates of biodiversity loss in the EU are worrying."
You cite lots of stuff and suggest that reported declines may well be a result of cell tower radiation, even where the authors in no way link their findings to this or even suggest a cause for the reported declines.

When you first posted here on BirdForum, I was genuinely interested in this topic but, while I still do not dismiss the possibility of a link, it is absolutely clear you object to cell phones, etc, on grounds more than simply the possible resultant declines in assorted species. I wish you luck in your pursuit, but I have to conclude that if I were one of those with any influence in the promotion or regulation of cell phone/wifi usage, you would have lost me long ago. But no problem, I don't work in this sector and have no links to it. I remember I promised myself to leave this thread be, so with that I will.
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Old Sunday 14th January 2018, 21:39   #338
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In my previous post about trees I quoted Balmori, citing Vokrodt, saying that microwaves cause the cellular membranes of trees to resonate. Cells contain water, and changing the frequency can change the way water flows. For a demonstration see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uENITui5_jU

The following link to the article "Welcome to the V2V Beehive World" expresses some of the concerns--not microwaves--surrounding wireless technology in cars. However, it's pretty obvious that with V2V, cars are constantly emitting wireless signals and also have Wi-Fi inside the cars, so traveling down a highway will be moving through microwave radiation soup, with effects for both the people inside the cars and any life form near the highways. We won't be giving up our 1975 VW camping van any time soon, and as for a new car---never. Here's the link: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...e-world?page=0

Microwave radiation aside, isn't anyone worried about the other issues to do with wireless cars and devices?
Caution is necessary when interpreting such visual demonstrations. The way the apparatus is set up the water tube is deliberately made to touch the vibrating speaker cone surround, which makes it vibrate mechanically at the same frequency as the speaker. Since the tube is moving physically, the direction of the water flowing from it also changes at the same frequency, thereby giving rise to various visual illusions. The water itself is in free-fall. It is no accident that 24 Hz was selected for the demonstration, since it is below the threshold for fusion:
Quote:
Display frame rate.
Flicker fusion is important in all technologies for presenting moving images, nearly all of which depend on presenting a rapid succession of static images (e.g. the frames in a cinema film, TV show, or a digital video file). If the frame rate falls below the flicker fusion threshold for the given viewing conditions, flicker will be apparent to the observer, and movements of objects on the film will appear jerky. For the purposes of presenting moving images, the human flicker fusion threshold is usually taken between 60 and 90 hertz (Hz), though in certain cases it can be higher by an order of magnitude.[7] In practice, movies are recorded at 24 frames per second and displayed by repeating each frame two or three times for a flicker of 48 or 72 Hz. Standard-definition television operates at 25 or 30 frames per second, or sometimes at 50 or 60 (half-)frames per second through interlacing. High-definition video is displayed at 24, 25, 30, 60 frames per second or higher.
See more at: Flicker Fusion Threshold.

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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 07:34   #339
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@ Jos You say, "...it is absolutely clear that you object to cell phones, etc., on grounds more than simply the possible resultant declines in assorted species." True, but it is the declines that worry me the most. And what really, really gets me, is that every time people pay subscriptions to telecoms companies for their cell phone packages and mobile internet, they are directly funding those declines. I will therefore fight these destructive gadgets on every front, with every weapon available to me.

Since you make it abundantly clear that you despise the internet as a source of information (this forum too is the internet) what makes it so worth having that you would risk harming the natural world to be connected to the world wide web--wirelessly, at any rate?

You say you are--or were--interested in this topic, but criticize my presentation because I suggest connections that are not stated by the authors of certain studies/documents/reports. Why is it wrong to suggest that these authors may have overlooked a possible cause for species decline? If, in years to come, microwave radiation is recognized as a direct cause of species decline (as I believe it will be), people will look back on these studies/documents/reports and wonder how the authors missed what will by then have become an established truth. Have you ever heard the quote from Arthur Schopenhauer: "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."? This will become self-evident as time goes by. The nature NGOs are starting to look into it, which is a step in the right direction. I just hope it's not too late by the time everyone accepts that microwave radiation is indeed harmful--to nature and to us.
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 07:39   #340
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@ Ed I did debate with myself whether I should post that YouTube water link. Clearly, I shouldn't have. Oops!

In case you are interested, there is to be an event in your part of the world that you might be interested in. "Reinventing Wires" on February 5 at the Commonwealth Club of California, with a policy paper by Tim Schoechle, PhD called "Reinventing Wires: The Future of Landlines and Networks" Dr. Martin Pall will be there (the author of "Wi-Fi as a Very Substantial Threat to Human Health"). Here's the link: http://electromagnetichealth.org/ele...log/cc-2-5-18/

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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 09:14   #341
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Conversation with a hunter

I do not approve of hunting, particularly nowadays when birds are becoming scarcer. In fact, I think hunting should be banned. However, especially in small rural communities like this one where there are hardly any birdwatchers and only the occasional visiting ornithologist, hunters (and shepherds) are the people who have the most knowledge about birds: where to find which birds, what the long and short-term populations trends are. They can be a valuable resource for information, often overlooked because people who want to conserve birds find hunting repugnant. Not all hunters shoot anything that moves. Some of them are very concerned about environmental factors that threaten birds and are very observant concerning what is happening around them.

Yesterday we went for a walk on a beach a little way down the coast from the salt pans/lagoon I mentioned in a previous post. This beach is backed by a large (for an island) reed-bed/wetland, and a small river runs into the sea. The river runs all year and is not seasonal, so there is always water in the reed beds. This has always been a good place to watch for birds, from marsh harriers flying over, grey herons, little egrets, all sorts of small birds, rails, ducks, kingfishers etc. This is as we have known it since we moved to Samos five years ago. But bird numbers have been declining in this time, and since the advent of new cell towers nearby last spring, they are all but gone. Yesterday there was nothing at all--one small bird at a distance, too far away to identify, and later we saw an enormous flock of crows--hundreds of them--circling and cawing in a great black cloud like something out of Hitchcock's "The Birds".

We met a hunter on the beach--needless to say, he wasn't doing any hunting. An older man, he described what this area used to be like years ago. Samos was on a major migration route for many birds at one point, though you wouldn't believe it now. Circa 1974, when the local airport was built, an antenna was placed up the central mountains to guide the planes. Another old boy (not the hunter) told me that he used to see great flocks of migrating geese in the spring and fall; they changed their course after the antenna was erected.

In 1984, the army built a major radar installation in those same mountains, with a view over to Turkey. Until then, he told us, there were huge numbers of birds every winter. Tens of thousands of birds migrated over Samos. The wetlands were full of ducks every winter. When the radar installation went live, he said, large-scale bird migrations over Samos abruptly ceased. Now we don't get nearly as many migrating birds, and never in huge flocks.

The hunter also told us that bird populations began to fall with the placement of the first communications tower over the main town of Vathi (where I live now) back in the early 90's. It would have been 2G then. Each successive upgrade has seen a further fall in bird numbers. I may have noticed the effects of the most recent upgrade to 4G, but this man told me there has been a steady decline since that first tower was built. He has no doubt that the new towers we can now see from the beach where we were yesterday are affecting bird populations there; he just doesn't know what to do about it.

I know many of you following this thread will dismiss the above as mere anecdote. But I am hearing the same sorts of things again and again from hunters and shepherds and farmers all over Greece. This is not to dismiss other environmental factors: for example, a number of hotels have been built along the coast between the reed-beds and the salt pans, with the resulting loss of a number of pools in which birds used to land. What remains has been designated as a protected area (so we won't go into whether the hunter had any right to be there in the first place) but the fact remains that the birds no longer migrate over Samos in large flocks, and many species no longer come at all.

It is supremely ironic that now, when the natural life of the area is so diminished, we have colorful signs with pictures to tell the tourists what kinds of birds and animals they might see. Most of them won't see any of the creatures pictured. However, they can access their FaceBook pages in a flash while sunbathing, so most of them probably don't care.
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Old Monday 15th January 2018, 18:08   #342
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@ Ed I did debate with myself whether I should post that YouTube water link. Clearly, I shouldn't have. Oops!

In case you are interested, there is to be an event in your part of the world that you might be interested in. "Reinventing Wires" on February 5 at the Commonwealth Club of California, with a policy paper by Tim Schoechle, PhD called "Reinventing Wires: The Future of Landlines and Networks" Dr. Martin Pall will be there (the author of "Wi-Fi as a Very Substantial Threat to Human Health"). Here's the link: http://electromagnetichealth.org/ele...log/cc-2-5-18/
Thanks, Diana. I would like to attend. Will let you know if I do.

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Old Tuesday 16th January 2018, 11:04   #343
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Just for fun

I didn't know the cellphone existed in prehistoric times, but apparently I was wrong--or so says a Turkish academic who claims that Noah used a cell phone to communicate with his son before the flood. Here's the link:
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/201...oah-cell-phone
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Old Wednesday 17th January 2018, 21:15   #344
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There’s-more-than-one-crypto-cause-of-animal-population-declines-in-the-world department—

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...p-dead/550676/
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Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 12:26   #345
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@ fugi Interesting article. Is your point in posting it that climate change is the major factor accounting for mass species die-offs/declines? Without reading the original study--all the things they considered as to why this microbe suddenly became so virulent--I can't be sure of anything, but it appears they don't understand why unusual heat and humidity interacted with the microbe in this way.

I notice that the author of the article also takes a swipe at "conspiracy theories" when he says, "News of the die-off sparked outlandish explanations about Russian rocket fuel, radiation, and even aliens." It may be that you (still) consider the proposition that microwave radiation causes biological harm to be a conspiracy theory--certainly this view continues to be promulgated by the mainstream media. But if you accept that a large body of research demonstrating harm from microwave/RF radiation exists, and that the mechanisms which cause harm are understood, the proposition "microwave radiation causes biological harm" is not a conspiracy theory.

I don't know anything about saiga antelope, or where they live, or whether they are surrounded by cell towers--I would assume there are some, because there don't seem to be many parts of the world without them these days. But I wonder if the scientists studying this mass mortality event are considering whether cell tower radiation may have had some influence on the sudden virulence of this microbe. I have seen studies showing that RF radiation/EMR causes certain bacteria to thrive, and other studies showing the RF radiation/EMR weakens the immune system. I'm not saying this is what happened in this case, merely that this sort of multi-factorial explanation (extreme weather event + microbe + effects of RF radiation/EMR) is possible--certainly something caused a normally harmless microbe to become deadly, and the scientists don't really understand how heat and humidity alone did that. And if, as the article states, "mass animal die-offs are becoming increasingly common" it may be that "climate change" by itself is an overly facile explanation.
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Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 14:24   #346
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Originally Posted by Purple Heron View Post
Is your point in posting it that climate change is the major factor accounting for mass species die-offs/declines? Without reading the original study--all the things they considered as to why this microbe suddenly became so virulent--I can't be sure of anything, but it appears they don't understand why unusual heat and humidity interacted with the microbe in this way.
I can posit one possible reason for sudden virulency appearing at microbial level. Given that, within limits, there is a correlation between microbial activity and increasing temperature, that in average years occurs within a relatively fixed duration, the number of generations of microbes that can occur within that time-frame is relatively constant. That means that the evolutionary rate of the microbes in response to the expected niche pressures would be expected to also remain relatively constant. In other words the opportunities for virulency to appear are relatively limited.

If you then throw into this scenario a sustained increase in humidity, then microbes, specifically soil microbes, whose mean environmental niche is semi-arid over a dynamically stable seasonality are likely to respond with greater fecundity due to the increased presence of moisture. Extend the duration of the whole process and then the opportunities for virulency to appear over more generations each year will be far greater. Evolution in action where the selection processes are driven by changes in selection pressures.

This isn't by any means a newly-discovered mechanism. Various forms of virulent avian influenza have developed rapidly partly because of increased opportunities within a chicken population that now comprises high densities in relatively few places (whose humidity and temperatures are higher year-round than open areas) instead of low densities over a vast area where contact and spread would be more difficult.
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Old Thursday 18th January 2018, 14:40   #347
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@ fugi Interesting article. Is your point in posting it that climate change is the major factor accounting for mass species die-offs/declines?
No, just making the banal point that causes of abrupt population declines can be very unobvious and that long hard looks free of preconceived ideas need to be taken of the circumstances of each specific case.
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Old Friday 19th January 2018, 10:20   #348
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@ MJB Yes, I know this mechanism, which would on the face of it be the most obvious explanation of how this microbe suddenly became virulent--presumably so do those studying what has happened to the saiga antelope. From the article, it would appear that they are not entirely satisfied with this explanation. It will be interesting to know what they finally conclude.

@ fugi And the point I am making is that "long hard looks free of preconceived ideas" should not overlook possible effects of RF radiation/EMR just because one has the preconceived notion that microwave radiation is harmless.

And "microwave radiation is harmless" is demonstrably a preconceived notion. It is on the premise that microwave radiation is harmless that all wireless communications systems were developed and rolled out--"microwave radiation is harmless" is the foundation on which wireless communications and other wireless applications are built.

So if I challenge the preconceived notion that microwave radiation is harmless, is the premise "microwave radiation causes biological harm" a preconceived notion? Or is it a possibility that ought to be considered when looking impartially into the causes of population declines, mass die-offs and other ecological disasters?
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Old Friday 19th January 2018, 15:55   #349
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Goodness me - I do not see anyone here saying they KNOW cell tower radiation is harmless, and most seem (like me) willing to entertain the possibility that it is not BUT that is not the same as relentless assertion and non-scientific assessment.
Can you please get this point, and stop seeing any criticism of your approach as personal ad hominem or 'unhelpful' when it is usually intended to be the opposite.
Starting with the answer rarely has a positive outcome in scientific assessments.
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Old Friday 19th January 2018, 18:16   #350
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@ fugi And the point I am making is that "long hard looks free of preconceived ideas" should not overlook possible effects of RF radiation/EMR just because one has the preconceived notion that microwave radiation is harmless.

And "microwave radiation is harmless" is demonstrably a preconceived notion. It is on the premise that microwave radiation is harmless that all wireless communications systems were developed and rolled out--"microwave radiation is harmless" is the foundation on which wireless communications and other wireless applications are built.

So if I challenge the preconceived notion that microwave radiation is harmless, is the premise "microwave radiation causes biological harm" a preconceived notion? Or is it a possibility that ought to be considered when looking impartially into the causes of population declines, mass die-offs and other ecological disasters?
Mere wordplay. The burden of proof is on you not on those who “premise” it’s harmless. Personally, I hope it is—I love smart phones and similar gadgets (my iPhone saved my life once)—but like MTem try to keep an open mind.
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