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Pocket bino choice, Leica Ultravid 8x20 vs Swarovski CL Pocket 8x25 etc. (1 Viewer)

nestara

Registered User
This is my first post on the forum, and I don't have a ton of experience with high end optics, so bear with me, please.

I am looking for a pair of pocket binoculars for wildlife spotting and general use during backpacking. Size and weight are the main constraints, as I intend to have to have the instrument at the ready, riding in one of the pack's hipbelt pockets.

I had read various reviews on these forums and other sites, narrowed my choices down a bit and ordered an Ultravid 8x20, a Swarovski CL Pocket 8x25, another CL Pocket in 10x25 (identical or nearly so form factor) and a Hawke Sapphire ED 8x25.

I didn't perform any formal testing, nor would I know how, I simply observed various objects at varying distances and noted my impressions.

The Sapphire ED was quickly eliminated due to lack of edge to edge clarity, at least in the copy I received. The difference between it and the more expensive binos was pronounced enough not to warrant spending more than a few minutes with it.

The Swarovski 8x25 and 10x25 are really nice optically, the eyepieces are comfortable - I especially liked the 8x25 model, probably due to its larger exit pupil. The problem that I have with both of them is that they're quite bulky and rather heavy, weighing about 50% more than the other binoculars. I'm not sure I'd put them in the pocket category, really, having one in a pocket feels like carrying a miniature brick. I did notice that the larger size and added heft provided for greater stability, however.

One other thing that caught my eye with both the 8x25 and the 10x25 was noticeable distortion while panning the binoculars (globe effect). The 10x25 exhibited it to a greater degree. Is this is a known characteristic of Swarovski's pocket model range?

Finally, the Leica. I really like its diminutive size. They're also excellent optically, at least to my fairly untrained eye. The only issue I have with them is their small exit pupil makes them rather sensitive to placement, which makes the process considerably more fussy than with the Swarovskis, but at this size it's a tradeoff I may be willing to take.

This post was longer than I intended, but to get down to brass tacks - should I keep looking? Is there anything else not on my radar that's worth investigating, or do I bite the bullet and keep the Ultravid with its inevitable compromises?
 
Take a look at zeiss's new terra 8x25. They are made in Japan. I have them, the Leica and the Swarovski 8x25. Can't fault any of the three.
 
This is my first post on the forum, and I don't have a ton of experience with high end optics, so bear with me, please.

I am looking for a pair of pocket binoculars for wildlife spotting and general use during backpacking. Size and weight are the main constraints, as I intend to have to have the instrument at the ready, riding in one of the pack's hipbelt pockets.

I had read various reviews on these forums and other sites, narrowed my choices down a bit and ordered an Ultravid 8x20, a Swarovski CL Pocket 8x25, another CL Pocket in 10x25 (identical or nearly so form factor) and a Hawke Sapphire ED 8x25.

I didn't perform any formal testing, nor would I know how, I simply observed various objects at varying distances and noted my impressions.

The Sapphire ED was quickly eliminated due to lack of edge to edge clarity, at least in the copy I received. The difference between it and the more expensive binos was pronounced enough not to warrant spending more than a few minutes with it.

The Swarovski 8x25 and 10x25 are really nice optically, the eyepieces are comfortable - I especially liked the 8x25 model, probably due to its larger exit pupil. The problem that I have with both of them is that they're quite bulky and rather heavy, weighing about 50% more than the other binoculars. I'm not sure I'd put them in the pocket category, really, having one in a pocket feels like carrying a miniature brick. I did notice that the larger size and added heft provided for greater stability, however.

One other thing that caught my eye with both the 8x25 and the 10x25 was noticeable distortion while panning the binoculars (globe effect). The 10x25 exhibited it to a greater degree. Is this is a known characteristic of Swarovski's pocket model range?

Finally, the Leica. I really like its diminutive size. They're also excellent optically, at least to my fairly untrained eye. The only issue I have with them is their small exit pupil makes them rather sensitive to placement, which makes the process considerably more fussy than with the Swarovskis, but at this size it's a tradeoff I may be willing to take.

This post was longer than I intended, but to get down to brass tacks - should I keep looking? Is there anything else not on my radar that's worth investigating, or do I bite the bullet and keep the Ultravid with its inevitable compromises?


I returned my Sapphire ED 8x25 as I didn't find the eyecups comfortable and eye positioning difficult but I was out yesterday with my new Hawke 10x25 Endurance and it performed very well and I was thinking it an ideal bin to take with me for a mountains hike and also just as a good lightweight general use compact and you could really save a lot of money over the others you mention and to be honest not lose an awful lot on performance.

I've never tried the Leica 8x20 but I imagine it's good and would have good resale if you ever wanted to sell it on.

You will have to compromise on performance of larger bins whatever you chose so accept that fact straight off or move into the 32mm range and more money. The Nikon M7 30mm at about 450grams are quite serious viewing bins. I have the 10x30 M7 but I would go for the 10x25 Endurance for low weight and compactness on a hike. You could easily buy both for less than the Leica price and that is what I chose with no regrets. I did have a 10x32 Leica HD, Zeiss 8x32FL and Swaro 8x32 EL's but I no longer miss them thank goodness as they're out of my price range.

I think a lot of members here have the cash so these expensive bins are often discussed but as I say I enjoy the alternatives I think equally as much and they shouldn't be discounted but if you have to have a premium brand then go with that. I also had a Nikon 8x20 HGL but I never liked that very much although nothing particularly wrong with it. I have an RSPB 8x20 HD which I like more but it does have a bit of a cool blue cast. I still like it very much though. Another option you could try is maybe the Bushnell 10x25 ED. Never had the opportunity to try it myself but it always gets decent comments from happy owners.

The Endurance would be a good start and later you could get something better if you felt it necessary. It used to be said just go straight for the best which usually meant the most expensive and skip all the cheap ones in building up to the most expensive but I don't think this applies so much any longer and will be even less relevant in the immediate future.

Good luck with whatever you decide. The narrow fov of the Leica puts me off it some but I would like to try one at some stage although I remember being in a store looking at 32mm EL's some years ago and asking the owner about the small Leica UV I saw and he made a sort of screwed up face that it wasn't worth looking at so I let it drop but it may have been he just couldn't be bothered getting it out of the display cabinet? I think at one stage they were giving them away with the larger Leica bins but not anymore it seems. You need £500 now. Wow.
 
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No contest, the Swarovski CL Pocket 8x25 is the best compact if you can afford it, I have had them all, Leica, Zeiss etc, the Swaro leaves them cold, brightest, sharpest, good FOV, it's like having an alpha 8x30 in smaller package.
 
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No contest, the Swarovski CL Pocket 8x25 is the best compact if you can afford it, I have had them all, Leica, Zeiss etc, the Swaro leaves them cold, brightest, sharpest, good FOV, it's like having an alpha 8x30 in smaller package.

The op did say however regarding the small Swaros

"The problem that I have with both of them is that they're quite bulky and rather heavy, weighing about 50% more than the other binoculars."

This I can appreciate as for pocket when I go cycling I prefer something even smaller and lighter than my 10x25 Hawke Endurance such as either of my 7x18 bins or my 8x22 reverse porros or even my 6x16 monocular. 7x18 are hard to beat for pocketability and mine have 9.3 and 8 deg fov though obviously some magnification is sacrificed.

Try the Carson MiniScout 7x18 for about £30. You just might be surprised.
 
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The Zeiss Terra 8x25 is about the same size and weight as the Swaro 8x25.

If you don't mind veiling glare in some circumstances you could try the Opticron 8x24 BGA T PC OASIS. Its optics are nice, they are in the same size/weight category as the Leica 8x20 and they are noticably easier on eye placement than the Leica. The Leica's optics are crispier and brighter though and less susceptible to veiling glare.

George
 
If you want to keep the bino in a hip belt pocket, then the Leica is probably your best choice, at least based on hip belt pockets I've seen and used. You might squeeze the Swaro in, but that depends on the belt. There's definitely no room for the Swaro case, so you'd have to think about protecting the lenses somehow.

Another option is to clip the bino in the case to the shoulder strap or the sternum strap. The Leica is light enough for the sternum strap, but the Swaro (in the case) is probably too bulky/heavy. They both work well clipped to the shoulder strap. You can leave the binocular strap around your neck (zero weight on your neck) and get quick access to the bino.

I still don't use the Leica for backpacking though, because the Swaro 8x25 is that much better/easier it's worth the added bulk. And if you add a few ounces for the bino, that provides a great incentive to splurge on the latest, greatest, lightest cookset and stove! ;)

Actual weights:

Leica 8x20 UV 241gm / 8.5 ounce
Swaro 8x25 346gm /12.2 ounce
Bushnell 7x26 384 gm / 13.5 ounce (its much heavier than spec)

The Bushnell is definitely too bulky for a hip belt pocket, and is quite a load in the case, but it is really nice otherwise. I just wouldn't want to use it for
backpacking.

Oh man, now I gotta go dig out my gear just thinking about it!

Mark
 
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Try the Carson MiniScout 7x18 for about £30. You just might be surprised.
Clive's right. On his recommendation I've tried them. And while they're not the right answer to everything they are rather better than you might think. I'm glad I have mine.

...Mike
 
How about the Bushnell Custom Compact 7x26? .2 less than the Swaros (if that actually matters) but highly regarded optically and with a larger exit pupil.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542196-REG/Bushnell_620726_7x26_Elite_e2_Custom.html


They sell normally at about 1/3 the price of the Swarovskis and are a good deal at that price! Here is Camera Land's price: $299.99.

(Somebody should tell Doug at Camera Land that using his new website is a P--n in the A!)

http://cameralandny.com/spec-sheet.html?catalog[name]=Bushnell-Elite-7x-26mm-%23620726-Binoculars-and-Scopes&catalog[product_guids][0]=1115646#category_2

At B&H's price of $195 and change get 2 of them! They are the best compact reverse porro prism binoculars on the market!

Bob
 
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I appreciate the comments, everyone. Those of you with Swaro CL Pockets, have you noticed the globe effect I described in the original post? It's readily evident when panning the binoculars across a distant and detailed background (such as scanning a treeline etc.). I did not observe this with the Ultravid for some reason - I am guessing this is somehow compensated for in its design.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
 
I appreciate the comments, everyone. Those of you with Swaro CL Pockets, have you noticed the globe effect I described in the original post? It's readily evident when panning the binoculars across a distant and detailed background (such as scanning a treeline etc.). I did not observe this with the Ultravid for some reason - I am guessing this is somehow compensated for in its design.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

No globe effect for me.
 
I appreciate the comments, everyone. Those of you with Swaro CL Pockets, have you noticed the globe effect I described in the original post? It's readily evident when panning the binoculars across a distant and detailed background (such as scanning a treeline etc.). I did not observe this with the Ultravid for some reason - I am guessing this is somehow compensated for in its design.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

No, no globe effect, I can't fault them. Little heavier than most compacts, probably due to being better build, but they go in my pocket snug enough.
 
I appreciate the comments, everyone. Those of you with Swaro CL Pockets, have you noticed the globe effect I described in the original post? It's readily evident when panning the binoculars across a distant and detailed background (such as scanning a treeline etc.). I did not observe this with the Ultravid for some reason - I am guessing this is somehow compensated for in its design.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

From your first post, I think you may misunderstand what the globe effect is. It is an illusion that occurs when there is not enough pincushion distortion to suppress the perception of a rolling globe while panning. What you reported was pincushion distortion, or outwardly curved verticals at the edges. The Ultravid also has pincushion distortion if you look for it.

BTW, I would vote for the Ultravid, which doesn't have any smaller exit pupil than the Swaro 10x25 and is the most compact of them all. A little jewel.

Ed
 
I see no globe effect in the Swaro CL, but it does have less pincushion than the Leica UV, and sharper edges. That coupled with a wider field of view might account for what you're seeing.

I actually don't recall anyone mentioning globe effect with the CL's before.

I had the Leica out today and yup, as Ed said they are a little jewel. Touchy eye placement and less bright than the CL, but very, very nice.

Your call, but you can't go wrong with either I don't think.

Mark
 
UV 8x20

Ive had the UV 8x20 for four or five years and love it.Great eye relief, smooth focus and sharp almost edge to edge. A great binocular.
From your first post, I think you may misunderstand what the globe effect is. It is an illusion that occurs when there is not enough pincushion distortion to suppress the perception of a rolling globe while panning. What you reported was pincushion distortion, or outwardly curved verticals at the edges. The Ultravid also has pincushion distortion if you look for it.

BTW, I would vote for the Ultravid, which doesn't have any smaller exit pupil than the Swaro 10x25 and is the most compact of them all. A little jewel.

Ed
 
I ordered an Alpen Wings ED 8x20 and a Zeiss Terra 8x25 just to see where they stand in comparison to the more expensive models.

Regarding the effect I am seeing with the Swaros, I feel like I am getting somewhat conflicting information here. If what I am observing is indeed pincushion distortion as elkcub indicates, and if the Swaros do have less pincushion distortion than the Leicas, then I'd imagine it would be very apparent on the Leicas, as well. Panning with the Swaros makes me a little dizzy because of this perceived effect, whereas the Ultravids do not (insofar as I can detect). Wanting to have another data point, I had a friend test both and report similar results, although he wasn't as sensitive to it.

I'm asking mainly to satisfy my curiosity here - barring a surprise by the Alpen or the Zeiss, I am already leaning toward the Leica. Thanks.
 
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