BGA Classic 7x36 first impressions. (1 Viewer)

I received a used pair of these today. I haven't had time to try them out yet but I have noticed something odd about them.

They take two full turns of the focus wheel from near to infinity but Opticrons website says they should take one and a half turns.

Anyone got any idea why that would be?


First impression just from using them indoors are:

Construction seems excellent. Very solid and sturdy. They feel solid and steady in the hands. Kitchen scales say they're 620 grams without strap or lens covers.

Twist up eyecups feel like they will stay in place if used in the mid setting (three settings in all, up, mid and down). They work perfectly with my glasses on and the eyecups fully down.

Focus action is smooth and easy to turn.

Field of view is surprisingly untunnel-like despite being listed as 7.2*. It appears to be hardly anything less than that of my Meopta Meostar 8x32s which are listed as 7.8*. I'll compare them properly outside tomorrow or at the weekend but right now I would swear that the Classics are way wider than 7.2*. I remember Mayoayo posting about these (or may have been Swift Egret 7x36s) and he said he had measured fov to be more like 7.5*.

Looking at wallpaper and such around the house, centre resolution looks good and sweetspot fairly large but I wont really tell until I've used them outside so I wont say anymore about the view at the moment.

First thought are that they are very nice bins. The only reservation I had about them before trying them was the narrow fov and that seems to have worked out nicely.

Tell you more soon.

If anyone has any ideas about the 720* focus wheel, please let me know. It makes me wonder if I don't have the latest model in my hands. But I can't see any difference to pics on Opticrons website.

Best wishes
Martin

EDIT- I have just measured the fov of both bins by looking at a tape measure from 2m distance. The ymeasure up about right to match the specs. Classics: 250mm at 2000mm and Meostars: 270mm at 2000mm.

Close focus of the Classics is about 1.5m.

Martin,

the concept of "number of turns from closest focus to infinity" does not appeal to me at all.
After all, it only tells how many revolutions you can do with the knob until you reach the end of the thread.

The only concept that would work here, is how many degrees you turn the knob when you change focus from three meters to infinity.

When it comes to FOV, AFOV and PFOV many agree with me that the thickness of the black rim surrounding the image has a lot impact on how we perceive the width of the image.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=1892964#post1892964

Martin Fagg said:

They take two full turns of the focus wheel from near to infinity but Opticrons website says they should take one and a half turns.

Anyone got any idea why that would be?
/////
If anyone has any ideas about the 720* focus wheel, please let me know. It makes me wonder if I don't have the latest model in my hands. But I can't see any difference to pics on Opticrons website.

Click to expand...

Either the thread has been made longer (translates as having another closest focus than the other model) or not as steep as before (translates as slower focus speed with more fine-tuning abilities)

I asked Opticron about the focuser. They told me that there haven’t been any changes to the BGA Classic since introduction so I don’t have an old one. The 540 deg is a mean based on a group of people.
The serial number relates to new product sales in 2008 so my bins are 3 years old.

I had a very brief trial outside today.

There seems to be rather a lot of distortion at the edges of the view. This nearly all can be focused out so it seems to be field curvature.

It's pretty pronounced and I think it will be quite distracting in use. I'll find out at the weekend when I take them birding.

Will post a fuller opinion when I can.

Martin,I did own the Swift Eaglet 7x36,and I found the FOV to be a bit wider that specifications...spec. were about 375feet at 1000Y and I think I measured almost 400...the focus throw was 1 full turn ,I think,and very fast ,smooth..Plus Field curvature was not really something You noticed,in fact this model has very good edge performance,for what I remember...It does show a clear rolling ball Effect (moderate)..this I remember well...I wonder If these binoculars have different eyepieces and are not the same(although they look identical).....
Ah,Martin,Now I am using a pair of 8x32 Swift Ultralite,by the way,..I know You were curious about the Vixen/Celestron Ultima,which is I have heard is the same binocular..
They´re Good!!!..I will post a little review one of these days..(very nice indeed)

Martin

I always assumed that these and the Swift Eaglet were one and the same. Maybe not. The Swift has a very smooth, silky, focus wheel that uses just one turn.

The edge is better than average on the Swift too. Mine is the newer Swift with the CFT prisms and the twist up eye cups. I note the same advance in the Opticron as appeared in the Swift.

You might have a bit of a collimation problem too. Just for grins I once sent my Eaglets to Nicholas Crista and they came back with wonders worked upon them. The reason I sent them in was problems with the focus wheel. Nicholas made a new focus shaft and re collimated to his satisfaction.

Like mayoayo, mine have near 400' fov as well.

Steve, you said that I may have a collimation problem. What makes you think that? If that is the case, I should tell the seller and return them to them and tell them I'll buy them if they are serviced first. If I pay for a service ontop of what I paid for the bins then I may as well pay a bit more and get brand new ones.

BGA Classics in the field

I spent some time playing with the BGA Classics yesterday and today. I compared them with two other bins. An Opticron BGA WP PCAG 7x36 and Swaro SLC 7x42s.

The BGA WP PCAG is an ancestor of the BGA Classic. I think two models earlier. AFAICT the lineage goes: BGA WP PCAG (silver coatings, fold down eyecups), then BGA WP PC AG N (as previous but with twist eyecups, possibly other changes, coatings maybe?) and the latest, the BGA Classic.

So how did they compare:

As Steve and Manuel indicated that the Eaglets have wider than spec'd FsOV, I did some roughly measured comparisons. I measured their fov widths on a fence rail from approx 10ms which I then used to work out the Opticrons' FsOV by assuming that the SLCs specified 8* is spot on. Fair, I think, given Swaros reputation. If you want to know what the maths is, let me know, I thought I'd skip it here for brevity's sake.

Both Opticrons had the same fov.

I work it out to be 7.38* or 129m/1000m or 387'/1000yd fov.

In use I didn't feel the need for more fov in the Opticrons. In fact the comparison bought to light a fact that I had been unaware of previously or had forgotten. When I use the SLCs I need to move my eyes around to see the edges of the view.

Depth of field- I couldn't see any difference in use. I didn't measure anything but from 10m outwards they all showed the same depth of field.

They all showed a really good 3D effect as I have always noticed with 7x bins whether roof or porro. I couldn't see any difference between them in this respect. I bought a 8x42 Legend porro in to play at this point to see what the £d was like. The poro had better 3D than all the others. Not surprising I guess, given the wider set objectives.

Colour- the Classics are the same in tone as the SLCs, both being cooler than the PCAGs. These had a warm tone which made reds redder. Tree bark and woodpigeons were redder through these bins and also greens were greener, I suppose because red and green are complimentary colours. Would the red be due to lead glass? Perhaps the more recent bins are lead-free?
I couldn't see any difference in tone between the Classics and SLCs.

Sweetspot- SLC leads by a long way, followed by the Classics and then the PCAGs with a touch smaller sweetspot. I estimate the Classics to have a 60% area sweetspot. Within this they are almost exactly like the SLCs. As sharp, same colours. Outside of this is where the differences show. This where the distortions kick in in The Classics. They have quite a lot of field curvature which when focussed out leaves an outer ring of distortion that doesn't focus out. This is down to around the outer 10-15%. The distortion in the Classics does intrude on your viewing pleasure. Not all the time but at times it is very noticeable, making the image curve across the field of view.
The SLCs have field curvature too but not as much as the Classics. It is much milder and doesn't intrude and as the fov of the SLCs is wider with the edge in my peripheral vision, it is not noticeable. The PCAGs have a bit more distortion than the Classics, it takes a bit more refocussing to get rid of it and their sweetspot is smaller at around 50%.

Today I noticed that when I point the bins slightly upwards, there is a curve of blurriness in the lower edge of the view. Like a ghosty sort of haze. I think it may be the same thing that was talked about in the first version of the ZR ED 7x36s. What did that turn out to be and how did ZR fix it?

Resolution- I didn't boost or measure anything here. This is just what my eyes tell me while using the bins. In their respective sweetspots, there is nothing between the Classics and the SLCs. They are both razor sharp. The PCAGs are ever so slightly less so but you wouldn't complain that they weren't sharp if you were just using them and not comparing them to anything else.

Contrast- both the BGAs have very good contrast but the PCAGs have slightly more than the Classics. The red colour cast playing a hand here, I think. I found both Opticrons very good at looking into the gloom under bushes and in deep woods. They make finding skulking birds easy because of their good contrast. Unforunately, I don't remember how the Opticrons compared to the Swaros contrast-wise. I'll try and find time in the week to check it out.

Focus- the Classics and PCAGs differed here. The latter have a stiffer focus wheel. I preferred the easy turn of the Classics. Neither of these two snapped into focus like the SLCs do but they don't need constant focus wheel fiddling either. Just not quite up to Swaro standards, but they're fine, it's only fiar to remember that the Classics sell for less than half the price of the SLCs.
Focus wheel stiffness ranked 1-3, 1 being stiffest, is PCAG 1, SLC 2, Classic 3. All totally useable, just different. But the SLC is my favourite.

I am still undecided whether to keep the Classics or not. The edge performance and the ghost haze in the lower edge are not good but the centre in the centre is so good it makes me want to keep them.
I am sending the PCAGs back. Although they have better contrast, the smaller sweetspot and less sharp centre count them out for me.
I would like to try the Swift eaglets to see if the yare different to the BGA Classics. From what Steve C and Mayayo said here, I expect them to have a flatter field and bigger sweetspot.
Are they the same as the Opticrons or just the same housing with better optics in?
I may see if I can get a pair of Eaglets delivered to me before my weeks trial period on the Classics runs out.

EDIT- I forgot to say that the BGA Classics and PCAGs are very well built bins. They feel very solid. Their solidness and compactness make them feel heavier than their actual weight in the hand. Around the neck they are very light and sit flat and unnoticed against your chest. The diopter doesn't move accidentally (clickstop). The hinge is stiff and stays where you put it. The eye-cups don't slip down accidentally. Extremely well made.

Martin

The reason I mention collimation is that my Swift's were a little too fuzzy and somewhat matched your description. Additionally they had a serious focus problem. Swift warranty service was run from Texas and sounded like it would be quite some time. Since I had dealt with Nicholas before I called him and sent him the binoculars. He machined a new focus rod and recollimated the binoculars to his standards. The differences were astounding, the edge fuzziness was nearly eliminated and the focus perfect, hence I wondered about yours since they sounded somewhat like mine.

Well that sure is food for thought Steve. I shall ponder!

I have used the BGA Classics some more today and decided they are keepers. They are really nice bins. Every criticism of them I made above was made in the harsh light of a critical study. When I stop comparing them to SLCs (most unfair) and just use them for birding like I did today all the issues picked up on fade away and I doubt there is a better pair in the 7x36 configuration to be had for the price I paid for these.

I am curious about the Eaglets still but I shall wait to compare the two. Next time I visit the States I'll bring mt Classics with me.

The BGA Classic 7x36 are very nice binoculars and I recommend that anyone looking for 7x36 format should give them a try.

EDIT- forgot to say that I tried them next to Nikon SE 8x32s very briefly today. Didn't compare thoroughly but they did very well considering how venerated the SEs are. The only big difference being the Classics have more field curvature and therefore a smaller sweetspot.

Most interesting thing to note is that the Classics fov is only a touch narrower than the SEs so I reckon my calculation of about 7.4* rather than the specified 7.2* is right. As is the case for the eaglet 7x36 according to Steve C and Mayaoayo.

Thanks for the review Martin. I've often wondered how good these 7x36 classic binos are.

Dave

I'm aware that this is an old thread but it's taken this long to lay my hands on the 7x36 Classic and though it was worth adding a few comments.

It's a case of: how can something be so wrong yet be so right?

After asking for them at a whole bunch of retailers I had to visit the Opticron HQ at Luton to find a pair and had a look at the Imagic TGA 7x42 (porro) and Imagic BGA SE 7x42 at the same time. It seems the rest of Opticron's BGA line was discontinued several years ago, but the 7x36 Classic has been kept as it remains a favourite...... within the company at least. Apart from Martin's review I can't find much about them here or elsewhere.

I rather like the 8x42 Imagic and expected the 7x42 to be the winner, but there was something about the AFOV and very long ER made it seem a bit claustrophobic for me. I much preferred the view through the TGA 7x42 but it just didn't wow me quite as much as the SRGA and the HRWP porros in the Opticron range, but for those who like a 7x it's well worth considering.

The view of the Opticron car park and adjacent industrial buildings is hardly ideal, but it was clear that the 7x36 Classic, at the technical level it is easily beat by the newer cheaper 8x42 additions to their range. However, as soon as I picked them up they put a huge grin on my face. I can't really offer a logical explanation. So what if there is field curvature, an average FOV and plenty of CA, it was just like stepping out of those smart, polished, stiff, business shoes and putting on my comfy slippers. They sat in my hands beautifully, the focus was silky smooth, no fussing on eye placement with my glasses, and the view gave me the sense of space that I just don't get with those technically better pairs. Wouldn't claim it's the best pair of birding bins around, though they are definitely more than adequate, but if you want to take a moment to relax and enjoy the view, I haven't found a better pair.

David

Thanks for the comments David - and I'll mention to the boss that we should try to make the lobby a little more comfortable!

The Swift Eaglet is indeed one and the same as noted by others although I'm not sure how much the BGA Classic and the Eaglet have diverged in terms of updates/tweaks over the years. If I can prise more info out of the man that makes the design decisions, I'll let you know!

Cheers, Pete