Naumann's, Naumann's x Dusky hybrid or a Dark-throated/Naumman's hybrid? (1 Viewer)

Two thrushes in recent weeks have me wondering what their origin might be.

Please check them out on my blog,under Shukkien Garden/Hiroshima Castle recent highlights.

http://hirobirder.blogspot.com/

Any ideas? :h?:

The bathing one is either a worn adult or first winter male eunomus; mostly identified by the blackish chest(eunomus feature) and rufous wing(male feature)

The one at the grassfield is a first winter naumanni; possibly a female; identified by the abundant orange patterning (naumanni); the headpattern and its colour (naumanni) the broad supercilium brown white and grey (first winter);its upperparts ( first winter); the dark flecks through the red pattern (naumannifirst winter)

gerdwichers8 said:

The bathing one is either a worn adult or first winter male eunomus; mostly identified by the blackish chest(eunomus feature) and rufous wing(male feature)

The one at the grassfield is a first winter naumanni; possibly a female; identified by the abundant orange patterning (naumanni); the headpattern and its colour (naumanni) the broad supercilium brown white and grey (first winter);its upperparts ( first winter); the dark flecks through the red pattern (naumannifirst winter)

Click to expand...

Hey Gerd

It wasn't the bird in the first pic that I was curious about. I knew that was a 1st winter eunomus - Dusky. We literally have 1000's every winter in Wester Japan. However, Naumann's is much scarcer in Wester Japan, with only 1 in 200 or so birds being Naumanni. The dark-thooated Thrush is a true rarity still, with 1-2 records a year, but in recent years several hybrids have been claimed.

My first thought was that the 2nd and 3rd birds were 1st winter naumanni as you say.

However, when looking at the pics again, especially of the 3rd bird,,there were a couple o things that didn't seem quite right.

Firstly the area around the eye and cheeks is usually pale on Naumann's, but it is dark on that bird.

Secondly the dark spotting on the breast seemed to be more like spots than the v-marks one might expect on a Naummann's or Dusky.

Lastly, and it is not clear in the 3rd picture, but unlike the 2nd bird and most other naumann's I have seen, the tail was brown, with only the outer tail feathers a dark reddish.

Having said all that of course I know how variable the taxon is and would be happy with the ID of Naumann's.

Here are some more pics of the 3rd bird..

Cheers

Sean :bounce:

lostinjapan said:

Hey Gerd

My first thought was that the 2nd and 3rd birds were 1st winter naumanni as you say.

However, when looking at the pics again, especially of the 3rd bird,,there were a couple o things that didn't seem quite right.

Firstly the area around the eye and cheeks is usually pale on Naumann's, but it is dark on that bird.

Secondly the dark spotting on the breast seemed to be more like spots than the v-marks one might expect on a Naummann's or Dusky.

Lastly, and it is not clear in the 3rd picture, but unlike the 2nd bird and most other naumann's I have seen, the tail was brown, with only the outer tail feathers a dark reddish.

Having said all that of course I know how variable the taxon is and would be happy with the ID of Naumann's.

Here are some more pics of the 3rd bird..

Cheers

Sean :bounce:

Click to expand...

Thanks Sean,

The headpattern in naumanni is usually in first winter plumage dark like the adult male, some adult males have paler patterning. I cant find any difference with naumanni here.
The flecking to the breast is a different pattern than the the red feathers to the underside with their pale fringing, so the pattern of the dark flecking is differently constituted: As in your pic.
The tail is in my opinion not abnormal but what it should be with more scrutiny: you said so.
The upperparts is a bit flecked as well, which in my turn, I should less expect.

But for the rest..I can't help you with anything but what I have said.