Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Cooper's Hawk or Sharp-shinned Hawk?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Friday 14th February 2020, 03:06   #1
RKDad
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southwest Montana
Posts: 9
Cooper's Hawk or Sharp-shinned Hawk?

I got this picture this morning out my front window, it was chasing what I believe are Cedar Waxwings.(pic included) I posted this question in the bird ID section before I found this thread. We've had a little debate about which species this actually is. I got mostly Sharp's votes on this but I'm not to sure. The thing that gets me are the eyes, Sharp's are the yellowish color and Cooper's have the dark orange/red eyes. Very similar in colors right down to the yellow bridge on the beak. I am new to this species so I am no expert by any means. Just curious mostly.

Rory
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01026.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	251.0 KB
ID:	718116  Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01028 - Edited.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	247.9 KB
ID:	718117  
RKDad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th February 2020, 03:27   #2
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2020

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 15,283
There is no difference in eye color between adult (which your bird is) Coops & Sharpies. Dto for the immatures of the 2 species both of which have yellow eyes. And yes, Cedar Waxwings.
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 14th February 2020, 13:58   #3
Sangahyando
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kiel
Posts: 1,915
I'd say Bohemian Waxwings - the undertail coverts are reddish instead of whitish, and they have yellow wing bands.
Not sure about the hawk.
Sangahyando is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th February 2020, 14:53   #4
Peter C.
...just zis guy, you know?
 
Peter C.'s Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 5,421
Second fugl on eye colour - useful for aging within a species, but doesn't say anything about which species you're looking at.

I believe the hawk is, indeed, Sharp-shinned; can't see the tail at all well (which is my usual "go-to" feature for distinguishing these two) but the adult Coop should have a "capped" appearance (top of head noticably darker than the nape/back). In this individual, the cap looks about the same grey as the nape/back.

PC.
Peter C. is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 14th February 2020, 15:20   #5
RKDad
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southwest Montana
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangahyando View Post
I'd say Bohemian Waxwings - the undertail coverts are reddish instead of whitish, and they have yellow wing bands.
Not sure about the hawk.
I believe you are correct, after further comparison it seems to be a Bohemian and not a Cedar. Easiest to spot difference is the belly. Cedar's are brownish/yellow and Bohemian are gray.

The Hawk I'm standing firm (for now) as being a Cooper. I have yet to find on any identity site that shows Sharp's to have red eyes or Cooper's to have yellow. Remember this is Southwest Montana. I am contacting a few local Falconers in our area to see they can shed some certainty on the subject.
RKDad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th February 2020, 15:38   #6
Peter C.
...just zis guy, you know?
 
Peter C.'s Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 5,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKDad View Post
The Hawk I'm standing firm (for now) as being a Cooper. I have yet to find on any identity site that shows Sharp's to have red eyes or Cooper's to have yellow. Remember this is Southwest Montana.
Eye colour not regional with these species. Can't imagine what sites you've been looking at, but try Cornell - great side-by-sides of the two species.

Cheers,
PC
Peter C. is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 14th February 2020, 16:13   #7
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 16,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKDad View Post
I got this picture this morning out my front window, it was chasing what I believe are Cedar Waxwings.(pic included) I posted this question in the bird ID section before I found this thread. We've had a little debate about which species this actually is. I got mostly Sharp's votes on this but I'm not to sure. The thing that gets me are the eyes, Sharp's are the yellowish color and Cooper's have the dark orange/red eyes. Very similar in colors right down to the yellow bridge on the beak. I am new to this species so I am no expert by any means. Just curious mostly.

Rory
There never was a 'debate' about the ID, just you who questioned the eye colour which had already been explained to you and it's a Sharp-shinned.

You can list it as whatever you like, that's up to you but why ask opinions here and then overide what you're told by several, experienced birders?
__________________
Andy A

Last edited by andyadcock : Friday 14th February 2020 at 16:17.
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th February 2020, 16:35   #8
ceasar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 11,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKDad View Post
I got this picture this morning out my front window, it was chasing what I believe are Cedar Waxwings.(pic included) I posted this question in the bird ID section before I found this thread. We've had a little debate about which species this actually is. I got mostly Sharp's votes on this but I'm not to sure. The thing that gets me are the eyes, Sharp's are the yellowish color and Cooper's have the dark orange/red eyes. Very similar in colors right down to the yellow bridge on the beak. I am new to this species so I am no expert by any means. Just curious mostly.

Rory
Rory,

You might get some more useful information from this website:

http://www.peregrine-foundation.ca/identification.html

Scroll down to Accipiters.

Click on Sharp-shinned Hawk and below to the left you will find an accipiter comparison size chart.

Bob
ceasar is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 14th February 2020, 17:16   #9
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2020

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 15,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangahyando View Post
I'd say Bohemian Waxwings - the undertail coverts are reddish instead of whitish, and they have yellow wing bands.
Oops, you’re right—Bohemian they are. . ..
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 14th February 2020, 20:38   #10
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 16,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
Oops, you’re right—Bohemian they are. . ..
What's the ratio over there, which is commoner?
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 14th February 2020, 22:53   #11
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2020

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 15,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
What's the ratio over there, which is commoner?
Cedar much commoner most places in the lower 48 at least.
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 09:40   #12
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 16,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
Cedar much commoner most places in the lower 48 at least.
Thanks,
when we had our first accepted record of Cedar, in my home Town of Nottingham actually, it was thought that Bohemians may have been the 'carrier' species as hundreds were seen heading out to sea, I think it was from somewhere in Canada?

It was suggested that many of the Bohemian's that year were actually of American rather than European origin, the roost in the centre of Nottingham that year, held and estimated thousand birds.
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cooper's Hawk vs. Sharp-shinned Hawk ID Jefferson Shank Bird Identification Q&A 7 Friday 31st January 2020 00:27
Cooper's Hawk or Sharp-shinned Hawk? joanseptembre Bird Identification Q&A 4 Monday 9th May 2016 05:03
Cooper's Hawk or Sharp Shinned Hawk? birdher Bird Identification Q&A 7 Saturday 9th November 2013 01:12
Cooper's Hawk or Sharp-Shinned Hawk? sfhipchick Bird Identification Q&A 4 Wednesday 25th April 2012 20:22
Cooper's Hawk or Sharp-Shinned Hawk? kcactionphoto Birds Of Prey 6 Monday 25th February 2008 01:07



Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.20142102 seconds with 27 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 17:56.