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Gulls - possible juvenile Herring Gull

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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 15:20   #1
Chris Bollen
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Gulls - possible juvenile Herring Gull

Hi - saw this juvenile gull preening with a flock of Herring Gulls at riverside at low-tide - I think it's a juvenile Herring Gull but wouldn't bet my house on it.
Any other ideas please ?
Photos taken 20/01/20 on the River Otter Estuary, Budleigh Salterton, Devon
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 19:27   #2
SteveClifton
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Yes a Herring Gull but not a juvenile.

It can be aged as a 1st winter (or alternatively, a second calendar year)
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 19:43   #3
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I don't do gulls, but I would have this down as Yellow-legged.
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 20:43   #4
Jefferson Shank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveClifton View Post
Yes a Herring Gull but not a juvenile.

It can be aged as a 1st winter (or alternatively, a second calendar year)
My opinion is, Herring Gull.
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Old Friday 14th February 2020, 21:34   #5
SteveClifton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMW View Post
I don't do gulls, but I would have this down as Yellow-legged.
I did consider that and to be honest, you could be correct. The scapular pattern looks quite good but the overall head & bill shape remind me more of EHG so I went with my gut. Difficult to be sure either way without an open wing/tail picture.
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Old Saturday 15th February 2020, 11:22   #6
lou salomon
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i'd second steve's comment that it is a difficult bird which needed a view on spread tail and wings to make a more secure assessment. to me the scap pattern with diamond shaped centers and a narrow subterminal mark as well as the weak and filigrane pattern on inner greater coverts and (especially) the apparently broadly pale tipped tertials without any notching makes more of a caspian look to it. bill is short for cachinnans, that's clear, but on the other hand it hardly shows any gonys angle. since head jizz is so off for cachinnans i'd leave it unidentified from these pics with suggesting either a caspian gull or a hybrid (most likely argentatus x cachinnans).
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Old Monday 24th February 2020, 20:18   #7
Chris Bollen
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Gull ID

Hi again - I've had second thoughts on this gull - my local birding club expert has no doubt that this is in fact a 1st winter Great Black-backed Gull boasting a really thick bill.
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Old Monday 24th February 2020, 23:14   #8
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Based on the bill shape and also the narrow, mainly black tail, I'd be happy to throw LBBG into the mix.

The subject bird is somewhere between the Dec and Jan images shown by the bird in the link attached.

http://www.gull-research.org/lbbg/lbbgnovdec/5fk9.html

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Old Tuesday 25th February 2020, 11:02   #9
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I agree with TT (Andrew, right?) on 1st winter LBBG. This was my reply when a friend of mine asked for my opinion on this bird.
A GBBG it surely isn’t on structure alone.
To me the dark/uncontrasty pattern of the 2nd generation scapulars is already a clear pointer towards LBBG. Also the gleamingly white notches of the greater coverts contrastin againt a very dark ground colour of the covers is also typical of LBBG. Note there are also a couple of unmoulted (juvenile) scapulars which is highly unlikely for a YLG, Caspian or a hybrid involving one these at this time of the year. The white head (uncommon in 1st winter herring) and smallish bill are just fine for a LBBG in my view.
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Old Tuesday 25th February 2020, 11:05   #10
lou salomon
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a good solution which i came up with as well, when viewing this the second time. especially structure is good for LBBG. but nothing really typical, especially not the wide white tertial crescents.
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