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Furnariidae

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Old Monday 3rd June 2019, 13:27   #76
l_raty
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'Thripophagini'

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Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik View Post
Thripophagini
...is not an available name, I'm afraid.

([OD here]. The statement "most inclusive crown clade that contains Acrobatornis fonsecai, Xenerpestes singularis, and Thripophaga fusciceps but not Synallaxis albescens" is a phylogenetic definition, not a 'diagnosis' in the sense of the Code; this name was published without any statement of characters purported to differentiate the taxon, and is therefore a nomen nudum.)

Thripophagini Moyle, Chesser, Brumfield, Tello, Marchese & Cracraft 2009 has (at least) two wannabe subjective senior synonyms, Metopothrichinae Wolters 1977 and Xenerpestinae Wolters 1977. But I strongly suspect -- although I have not seen the actual work -- that these would prove to be nude as well, as has been the case every family-group name, cited from Wolter's Vogelarten der Erde by Bock 1994, which have been checked in recent years. (Bock believed that the Code requirement of a description/diagnosis for family-group names was an 'error': he accepted tens of names (from Wolters, the Sibley group, etc.) that lacked one as if they were available. After 1960, in any case, a statement of characters that differentiate the taxon is absolutely necessary.)

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Old Tuesday 4th June 2019, 07:13   #77
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The Thripophaga/Cranioleuca/Limnoctites clade is very young (between 2,5/5,5 mya), I don't see the point of recognising so many genera (unlike the heterogeneous Asthenes, which is a very old lineage [~10 mya] with three distinct clade, and merit a generic split)
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Old Tuesday 4th June 2019, 11:21   #78
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The Thripophaga/Cranioleuca/Limnoctites clade is very young (between 2,5/5,5 mya), I don't see the point of recognising so many genera (unlike the heterogeneous Asthenes, which is a very old lineage [~10 mya] with three distinct clade, and merit a generic split)
You should more than likely also include Roraimia in the group, if you want it to be a clade.

(Roraimia is admittedly sister to an apparent Thripophaga/Cranioleuca/Limnoctites clade in the present study, but this clade lacks statistical support; Roraimia was embedded in the group formed by these three genera, with high support, in Moyle et al 2009 (the paper where Thripophagini was introduced, link in my previous post above) and in Derryberry et al 2011 ([here]).
The present study and Derryberry et al 2011 also differ re. the position of Cranioleuca gutturata, by the way -- here, this species is sister to the rest of the focal group (so-so support; 80/.87) and the authors suggest it needs a new genus; in Derryberry et al, it grouped with Tripophaga (cherriei + fusciceps; type species so far unsampled) (so-so support as well; Bayesian PP < .95), and this group then formed a clade with Roraimia (high support; Bayesian PP > .95); gutturata is now included in Thripophaga by various authorities based on the 2011 results.)
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Old Tuesday 4th June 2019, 11:52   #79
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You should more than likely also include Roraimia in the group, if you want it to be a clade.
Obviously

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(Roraimia is admittedly sister to an apparent Thripophaga/Cranioleuca/Limnoctites clade in the present study, but this clade lacks statistical support; Roraimia was embedded in the group formed by these three genera, with high support, in Moyle et al 2009 (the paper where Thripophagini was introduced, link in my previous post above) and in Derryberry et al 2011 ([here]).
The present study and Derryberry et al 2011 also differ re. the position of Cranioleuca gutturata, by the way -- here, this species is sister to the rest of the focal group (so-so support; 80/.87) and the authors suggest it needs a new genus; in Derryberry et al, it grouped with Tripophaga (cherriei + fusciceps; type species so far unsampled) (so-so support as well; Bayesian PP < .95), and this group then formed a clade with Roraimia (high support; Bayesian PP > .95); gutturata is now included in Thripophaga by various authorities based on the 2011 results.)

What defines a genus now, homogeneity, morphological similarity, behaviour, common ancestor, divergence times, degree of relationships?

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Old Tuesday 4th June 2019, 19:23   #80
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[ATTACH][ATTACH]Wolters2.pdf[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]Wolters3.pdf

QUOTE]Metopothrichinae Wolters 1977 and Xenerpestinae Wolters 1977. But I strongly suspect -- although I have not seen the actual work -- that these would prove to be nude as well, as has been the case every family-group name, cited from Wolter's Vogelarten der Erde by Bock 1994[/quote]
Here are the two mentioned which look nude. And two others that have some words attached.
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/...ge/15/mode/1up
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/...e/449/mode/1up .
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Old Tuesday 4th June 2019, 21:13   #81
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Thanks Mark.
Yes Metopothrichinae and Xenerpestinae on this page are definitely nude.
Pipridae and Platyrinchinae in the other pdf would be nude as well if they were new here (which they were not -- Pipridae is either by Rafinesque 1815, if you accept his names, or by Vigors 1825, if you don't; Platyrinchinae is in my opinion by Sundevall 1836). The attached words are not a statement of characters. A statement about the circumscription of a family-group taxon, the inclusion/exclusion of this or that genus, or the general sharpness of the boundary of the taxon, does not make a name available if no actual characters are mentioned.
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Old Wednesday 5th June 2019, 21:23   #82
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Platyrinchinae = Platyrhynchides Sundevall 1836.
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/...ge/83/mode/1up .
Berlepsch (1907: 482) recognized Ihering's Euscarthminae,
although calling it Platyrinchinae, but extracted from it three genera for which he
created a new subfamily, Rhynchocyclinae. It was the latter family, to which was
added Platyrinchus that became Hellmayr's Platyrinchinae 1925. Melvin Traylor Jr.1977.
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/...e/510/mode/1up .
I'm glad I used the neutral term added words and did not call them a description.
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Old Thursday 6th June 2019, 18:32   #83
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Cranioleuca sulphurifera, Limnoctites rectirostris

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Proposal (815) to SACC

Generic placement and common names of Cranioleuca sulphurifera and Limnoctites rectirostris
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