Jays in the Grand Canyon (1 Viewer)

lassa8 · Mar 15, 2004

I was at the Grand Canyon last week and I kept seeing a medium sized blue bird flying around, so I attempted to take a picture of it to help me identify it when I got home. Based on my memory and looking at the picture (it's not a very good close up) I'm having trouble distinguishing between then Western Scrub Jay and the Mexican Jay. The picture looks more like a Mexican Jay when I compare it to other pictures, but I don't think (I could be wrong) that they're found in the Grand Canyon. Does anyone know if they are? Or did I most likely see a Western Scrub Jay?

oldsquaw · Mar 15, 2004

Mexican Jays do not get much north of Tucson so they could be Western Scrub jays or Pinon Jays they are common there too. Van

steve_nova · Mar 15, 2004

Pinyon sprang to mind too. Why not post it anyway? There might still be enough info like proportions and distribution of colour to distinguish it.

Michael Frankis · Mar 15, 2004

Hi Lassa,

Welcome to BirdForum!

The Grand Canyon rim is all Pinyon Pine woodland, so Pinyon Jay is by far the most likely (it is perfect habitat for them). All-blue, slightly paler beneath than above, and a fairly short tail.

Western Scrub Jay is also possible, whiter beneath, bluer above except for the center of the back, which is browner, and a fairly long tail.

Michael

Katy Penland · Mar 15, 2004

Just to add a note to Michael's excellent description, younger pinyons have a more grayish cast to them and get bluer with age. I think this is one of the biggest factors in people confusing them with the Mexican jay.

I second Steve's encouragement to post whatever you have. The robustness of pinyon vs. slender scrub, and as Michael pointed out, the difference in tail length, can ID it even if plumage details might not be that visible.

Pinyon jays are also seldom seen in ones and twos but in fairly good-sized flocks (30-50), where scrubs are almost never in flocks, even small ones.

Their calls are also extremely different. Pinyons have more of a short wailing-type call, or perhaps more accurately, a wavering call, and sometimes a two-note call, where scrubs pretty much sound like a barking shriek. (Man, I suck at describing calls...)

And if there was a crest of any kind on your jay, it could have been a Steller's jay, which also occurs in that area. There's quite a bit of black, however, on a Steller's, so if your bird was all-blue with no crest, then forget I mentioned it.

steve_nova · Mar 15, 2004

Katy Penland said:
..........Their calls are also extremely different. Pinyons have more of a short wailing-type call, or perhaps more accurately, a wavering call, and sometimes a two-note call, where scrubs pretty much sound like a barking shriek. (Man, I suck at describing calls...)........

Katy, I can hear them now :clap:

lassa8 · Mar 16, 2004

I just decided that I wanted to start keeping track of what birds I've seen on this trip after a birdwatching couple showed us a pair of prarie falcons going through some sort of mating ritual on the trip, so I don't know too much about birds yet. I know we definitely saw a Stellar's Jay at the Grand Canyon, so I know this bird isn't one of those. Hopefully I'll get the picture scanned onto the computer later tonight. I think I can safely rule out Mexican Jay right now....Hopefully I'll be able to zoom in on it once it's scanned because it looks like there's a white line above the eye...but again, I'll just have to wait to scan the picture. Thanks for the help so far!

Katy Penland · Mar 16, 2004

steve_nova said:
Katy, I can hear them now :clap:

Awwwwwww, you are too kind. :gh:

lassa8 · Mar 16, 2004

Okay, I think I attached the scanned picture. Hope it works.

oldsquaw · Mar 16, 2004

scrub jay, to long of a tail for a pinon and belly to white

Charles Harper · Mar 16, 2004

Yep, don`t even have to enlarge the picture to i.d. it.
A photo`s worth a thousand descriptions, lassa. And welcome to BF. Hope to see more of your photos.

lassa8 · Mar 16, 2004

Thanks a lot for everyone's help!

steve_nova · Mar 16, 2004

Incidently, if anyone wants to put the correct squiggle above the 'N' in Piñon so that it reads Pinyon, you can get it from this free online character map

what is that squiggle called anyway?

........am I bored, or just boring?

Charles Harper · Mar 16, 2004

It`s a `tilde`, and thanks, Steve, I`ve been looking for one of those!

cuckooroller · Mar 16, 2004

Charles Harper said:
It`s a `tilde`, and thanks, Steve, I`ve been looking for one of those!

Charles,

If you're running Windows you should be able to call up that already provided by calling up the Run or Execute box (I don't know what they call it in English as mine is in Italian and says Esegui). Anyway, after you call it up just type in charmap and hit OK. :news:

Dave B Smith · Mar 16, 2004

Or just switch your keyboard to Spanish and type the enyay (phonetic spelling) like this ñ

Katy Penland · Mar 16, 2004

Charles Harper said:
It`s a `tilde`, and thanks, Steve, I`ve been looking for one of those!

Ditto! I'll bet that's where the pound sterling character could be found, too, huh? Wish they made an international keyboard with a "character pad" option instead of that perfectly useless, dust-catching (for me) "calculator pad" on the far right.

Michael Frankis · Mar 16, 2004

Alt+0241 = ñ
Alt+0209 = Ñ

Charles Harper · Mar 16, 2004

Thanks gents. Soon as I get my computer back, I`ll try to find this thread again.

By the way, I keep-- on someone`s suggestion here, I think-- a document file of miscellaneous characters, so that I don`t have to go looking for them again, once I`ve captured one. Works well... when I`ve got my machine.

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