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Looking for a new 300 or 400mm lens for a D90 (1 Viewer)

flanken

C-GU11
Hey all. I'm looking over my options for replacing my existing telephoto lens. I'm still a bit of a DSLR newbie so go easy on me, and do let me know if I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm currently using the Tokina 80-400mm (the AT-X D version) on my D90. While the size and build quality are wonderful, it's quite soft and low-contrast at 400mm, and the AF speed is adequate at best. But the real problem is that it suffers from rather horrendous purple fringing, as seen in the attached 100% crop. I can remove most but not all of it in post-processing, but obviously it affects image quality. Admittedly, I'm not really that much of a pixel peeper, but the purple fringing is noticeable even on zoomed-out images. I'm not sure if it's something characteristic in the optical design (as some of the reviews online seem to confirm) or if it's specific to the one I have.

At any rate, I plan on selling the Tokina, and replacing it with one of the potential candidates below, so I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on any specific lens, or on which one is the best option. Just to give you a better idea about my needs, I mostly shoot a) gulls on the ground or in flight, b) the chickadees and finches at my backyard feeder, c) aquarium fish, and d) my silly indoor cat. Obviously, this new lens would be mostly used for a) and b), as I have plenty to cover the other two.

As far as lenses go, I've found that I don't mind hauling around something slightly bulkier and/or heavier than the Tokina. I'd like to spend around $500-600 USD on a new lens; I know that limits my options, but I might consider something pricier if that's absolutely what's needed. I also have a Tamron 18-270mm VC f/3.5-6.3 that I always have on hand around for wider shots and as a backup, so any lens that would be largely redundant with that probably wouldn't be worth it (although at close ranges, the Tamron is not a true 270mm, more like 180mm due to its design, plus its AF is a little on the slow side for in-flight shots). Since I know I can't have everything, I can't decide whether I'm more willing to sacrifice a 400mm focal length, lack of VR, sharpness, or fast AF; I suspect sharpness, and then fast AF are probably the most important, but let me know if I'm not correct.

With all that said (as brevity isn't my strong suit), here are some of the lenses I'm considering:

  1. Nikon 300mm f/4 ED-IF (older non AF-S version): I'm especially interested if anyone has had any experience with this one, especially regarding its AF speed, sharpness, and general usefulness for bird photography. Also, has anyone tried this one with a Kenko 1.4x TC?
  2. Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR f/4.5-5.6: I'm renting this one for a couple of days. Seems pretty nice so far; I'm also renting the 300mm f/4 AF-S, and the differences in image quality between this lens and that much pricier one isn't yet apparent to me.
  3. Sigma 170-500mm APO f/5-6.3 (used)
  4. Tamron 200-500mm f/5-6.3 (used)

And a couple of more expensive options; I'd like to avoid spending this much, but might consider them if it's really worth the extra cost:
  1. Nikon 300mm f/4 AF-S
  2. Sigma 100-300mm f/4

Obviously I could analyze this to death, but I figured I'd get everyone involved in my paradox. Thanks in advance for any opinions or advice!
 

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Hi

Firstly that is dreadful purple fringing, I can see why you want a change of lens. Have you considered the Sigma 50-500 OS and Sigma 150-500 OS. Both are perhaps a little more money than your 1 to 4 choices but are, if you get a good one, very good lenses. QA/QC issues can sometimes be an issue with Sigma lenses but if you can try before you buy that shouldn't be too much of a concern.

I have used the original Sigma 50-500 (non OS) on a Nikon D300 and quite liked the results. It's a very sharp lens with good contrast and saturation. The new OS feature would be a real bonus also. This link shows a few of the pics I took with it on a D300 used for a few hours one day.

http://andrewa.zenfolio.com/p120288134

I've also used the Sigma 150-500 but only on a Canon body. At first I thought this lens was a duffer it's not it just behaves a bit differently to my other lenses. On my Canon I have to dial in a bit of AF micro adjustment and the pics need some heavy contrast boost in post processing I find.
This link shows the first pics taken with it pretty much straight out of the camera a little sharpened and cropped thats all.

http://andrewa.zenfolio.com/p344834189

Both lenses should be up to the task of giving decent AF for gulls in flight and will give you a decent range boost over a 300 mm which you might find just a little to restrictive maybe.

Rgds
Andrew
 
Here's another using the Sigma 150-500 from this weekend. Taken on a Canon 50D but Nikon D90 Canon 50D it doesnt really matter the lens is the most important factor really.
IMG_3254.jpg
 
the Nikon 300/4 IF-ED is a cracking lens, extremely well built, will deliver extremely sharp images, has an odd 82mm filter size and what is considered as a better mount that the later AF-S. I did like mine and it worked well with a Sigma 1.4TC. If the optics and builds are positives, the AF is a trade off, never going to be as fast as the AF-S but works admirably, a little slower with the TC.
When I changed to an AF-S version, purely for TC compatibility I lost nothing apart from a little AF speed.
One point, mine developed a little squeak, a quick google and you'll find info on this, a very small amount of a fine oil (pinhead size drop) on the AF bar will resolve this.

If you find a good un, its a cracking lens which should be a reasonable buy
 
No offence to anyone, but if you after sharp pictures you only have 1 choice: Nikon 300mmf4 + 1.4 converter. I had the Sigma 150-500, and the Nikon lens put it to utter shame. See attached, a 100% crop taken about 6m away from me, and this bird is SMALL.

The 70-300VR is not bad, but if your interest is birds it will frustrate you as it is to short.

Good luck in your purchase.

Regards
 

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I use a Nikon 300mm f4 AFS + 1.4TC and the results are spectacular.

I always wondered how professional photographers managed to get the "wow" factor into fairly mundane-looking subjects.

I also like the 300mm/420mm flexibility. I wouldn't part with my 300 or TC for the world.
 
Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice. Great photos as well! I wound up splurging a bit, and got a used 300 f4 AF-S with the Kirk Enterprises tripod collar for a fairly reasonable price. It still cost a good bit more than a used non AF-S version, but I think the extra close-focus & AF speed are probably worth it. If it really isn't, let me know, as I can still return it within a few days of receiving it. Either way, I think a good telephoto prime will be the way to go for me, as the 18-270 will cover any closer-range shots and/or any lower-light situations where I will need image stabilization.

Now I guess my next question is what teleconverter should I get. Should I shell out for the Nikon TC-14E II, or is the Kenko Teleplus 300 1.4x going to yield optically similar results? I do kind of like the fact that the Kenko can be used with lenses other than the 300 f/4; I definitely wouldn't use it on the 18-270, but if I ever got a longer macro lens or an 85mm f/1.8 prime I'd be tempted to use it with those as well.

Thanks again for all the replies!
 
You made the right choice. I cant comment on the Kenko, but have heard good things about it. For what its worth, I would go for Nikon TC, at least you know you are getting the best.

Good luck and start posting those pics.

Regards
 
Not having used the non AFS version I can't comment on the comparisons but I can say that as an owner of the 300mm AFS I am extremely happy with the results. I was intending to use it simply as a stop gap till I got a 2.8 AFS 2 but the focusing speed and IQ of the lens is fantastic and has persuaded me to keep it. Ultimately you won't regret getting the lens.
 
Hey all. I'm looking over my options for replacing my existing telephoto lens. I'm still a bit of a DSLR newbie so go easy on me, and do let me know if I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm currently using the Tokina 80-400mm (the AT-X D version) on my D90. While the size and build quality are wonderful, it's quite soft and low-contrast at 400mm, and the AF speed is adequate at best. But the real problem is that it suffers from rather horrendous purple fringing, as seen in the attached 100% crop. I can remove most but not all of it in post-processing, but obviously it affects image quality. Admittedly, I'm not really that much of a pixel peeper, but the purple fringing is noticeable even on zoomed-out images. I'm not sure if it's something characteristic in the optical design (as some of the reviews online seem to confirm) or if it's specific to the one I have.

At any rate, I plan on selling the Tokina, and replacing it with one of the potential candidates below, so I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on any specific lens, or on which one is the best option. Just to give you a better idea about my needs, I mostly shoot a) gulls on the ground or in flight, b) the chickadees and finches at my backyard feeder, c) aquarium fish, and d) my silly indoor cat. Obviously, this new lens would be mostly used for a) and b), as I have plenty to cover the other two.

As far as lenses go, I've found that I don't mind hauling around something slightly bulkier and/or heavier than the Tokina. I'd like to spend around $500-600 USD on a new lens; I know that limits my options, but I might consider something pricier if that's absolutely what's needed. I also have a Tamron 18-270mm VC f/3.5-6.3 that I always have on hand around for wider shots and as a backup, so any lens that would be largely redundant with that probably wouldn't be worth it (although at close ranges, the Tamron is not a true 270mm, more like 180mm due to its design, plus its AF is a little on the slow side for in-flight shots). Since I know I can't have everything, I can't decide whether I'm more willing to sacrifice a 400mm focal length, lack of VR, sharpness, or fast AF; I suspect sharpness, and then fast AF are probably the most important, but let me know if I'm not correct.

With all that said (as brevity isn't my strong suit), here are some of the lenses I'm considering:

  1. Nikon 300mm f/4 ED-IF (older non AF-S version): I'm especially interested if anyone has had any experience with this one, especially regarding its AF speed, sharpness, and general usefulness for bird photography. Also, has anyone tried this one with a Kenko 1.4x TC?
  2. Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR f/4.5-5.6: I'm renting this one for a couple of days. Seems pretty nice so far; I'm also renting the 300mm f/4 AF-S, and the differences in image quality between this lens and that much pricier one isn't yet apparent to me.
  3. Sigma 170-500mm APO f/5-6.3 (used)
  4. Tamron 200-500mm f/5-6.3 (used)

And a couple of more expensive options; I'd like to avoid spending this much, but might consider them if it's really worth the extra cost:
  1. Nikon 300mm f/4 AF-S
  2. Sigma 100-300mm f/4

Obviously I could analyze this to death, but I figured I'd get everyone involved in my paradox. Thanks in advance for any opinions or advice!

I have three of the lenses that you are considering, the Nikon 300/4 AF (non AFS, the 70-300 VR and the Tamron 200-500.

I use the 300/4 most of the time as it is the sharpest and fastest although the screw drive makes it a bit slower but it is not a problem. The focus limiter works great and keeps it from hunting. I just got a Kenko pro 300 1.4 teleconverter about 3 weeks ago for this lense and it has not been off since. I use this combo with a tripod, monopod or beanbag from the truck window and is my all around favorite for birds. This lense seems sharp even wide open.

The Nikon 70-300 VR is my good walk around lense for the times I do not want lug around the tripod or monopod. Mine seems very sharp at 300mm, even more so now. I had to send it back to Nikon to replace the focus motor, under warrenty thank goodness. While there they adjusted the VR and the focus and I have no problem with the sharpness of this lense. It does need good light though and I usually shoot around f 8 to f 11.

I have had the Tamron 200-500 the longest and it is in my opinion well worth the money for a 500mm lense. This one also needs good light and I find f 8 to f 11 the sharpest spot on this lense also. It is not the fastest focus lense on the market but if you are re-focusing at about the same distance it is not bad. I don't use this lense as much now since I got the 300/4 and have thought about selling it but I still like the reach and can not afford the Nikon 500/4 that I dream of.

For birds you will need the reach and as others have said 300mm tends to be a bit short unless you are in a blind or good at stalking. So good luck in which ever one you decide on and happy shooting.

You can look at some of my shots mostly with the 300/4 with and without the TC at
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/40197
 
I have the 300 f/4 AF and a Tamron 1.4x TC - seems to be identical to the Kenko. If I had the AF-S version, I think I'd go with the Nikon TC as the IQ is reputed to be a bit higher. Of course, the Nikon won't autofocus with non-AF-S lenses.
 
Thanks everyone for the great advice. I received the used 300mm f/4 AF-S that I ordered today, and have a Kenko 1.4x TC on the way. Thanks to a helpful local shop I got to compare it side-by-side with the non AF-S version; I think the quicker AF and closer focusing will be worth the extra cost.

I guess now it's time to go out and shoot!
 

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You have made the right choice . Nothing beats the 300 F/4 .
I am a proud owner of the Tamron 200-500 - for the last 5 years - and have mastered the lens to it's maximum capabilities, getting extremely sharp photos. But , and even though The Tamron has the reach,I have used the 300 a few times and I find the 300 F/4 's speed a great advantage , and if shooting from a hide - the 300 F/4 is the right answer .
 
- and have mastered the lens to it's maximum capabilities, getting extremely sharp photos.

So Doc,

Share some of those secrets with us....

One of my secres is to shoot at min shutter speed of 1/500. 1/1000 is better of course , but in bad light you start chasing ISO, and with D90 you cant really go over ISO1600.

I find no difference in sharpness between f5.6 and f8 (with convert on).

Now I need some of your secrtes.....

Regards,
 
So Doc,

Share some of those secrets with us....

Now I need some of your secrtes.....

Regards,

No problem - here goes :
The Tamron is a slow lens , and does NOT LIKE Tc's . It LOVES good lighting conditions . I am fortunate to live in a sunny state ( Israel ) , and thus enjoy the sun almost all year round , providing my Tamron very good light .
In cloudy / dark days - the lens will suffer from "hunting " problems .
As for the BEST results : I use Manual Mode exposure , Spot Metering ( especially on white birds ), AF-C , 9 fps ( with D300 Grip ) , Iso 400 even in good light ( to enable me to get fast shutter speeds ).
Bets results are at F/8, sometimes F/7.1, and shutter speed varies depending on the situation . When shooting static birds - almost always on a bean-bag or tripod , but I have no problem with shooting hand-held to get In-Flight shots . I get the same sharpness at 500 m"m as 400 m"m or less . Most of my shots are at 500m"m . Shutter speed of 1/1250sec has proven the ideal , and i rarely crank Iso higher than 640 .
I use a hide whenever I can .
Having said all that - on must remember that shooting conditions vary , and i try to adjust the camera setting accordingly . You can get a very sharp photo of a static bird at shutter speeds of 1/250sec , and sometimes even a good flight shot at speeds of 1/800 sec .
Here are some examples ( more can be found in my gallery ):
 

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