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Have we reached Peak World Birding? (1 Viewer)

DMW

Well-known member
World birding has changed beyond recognition from when I started longer ago than I care to remember. No xeno-canto, no ebird, no GPS way points, no online trip reports - in fact no Internet. No local birders or guides in most places. A well-organised and motivated birder can probably now see more in 3 weeks than was possible in 3 months in some countries.

However, I'm increasingly seeing reports of birds that used to be easy, that no longer are. This phenomenon is perhaps most acute in Vietnam, ndonesia and the Philippines. It was only a matter of time, but I'm wondering whether we have reached the point of Peak Bird, and that it's downhill from here? There aren't too many birds left that can't be seen due to lack of information, so the pool of new birds becoming available is now quite limited. while the list of birds falling off the list is only going to accelerate.

Or am I being too pessimistic?!
 
On a similar theme we set bird race records for our area (Fylde) and county (Lancashire) a few years back and I don't think the area one in particular will ever be beaten. For every Little Egret or Cetti's Warbler that is now easy there are more species which have become difficult such as Cuckoo, Grey Partridge and even Pochard.
 
Agree - and there's also the point that birders are - or should be - less willing to have the high carbon footprint needed to gain a long list.
 
I'm not sure. I just returned from a trip to the Philippines, and while we did get some species that were especially unusual, I would say finding some of those species was rather difficult. So I think there's room for further expansion since there's potential for further development (roads, lodging, etc.) in some countries which could open up more "easier" locations.
 
I'm not sure. I just returned from a trip to the Philippines, and while we did get some species that were especially unusual, I would say finding some of those species was rather difficult. So I think there's room for further expansion since there's potential for further development (roads, lodging, etc.) in some countries which could open up more "easier" locations.

Yes, but for how long will the "development" consist of making birding easier before it results in local/world extinction of the species opened up? That's the overall premise of the thread and I should have thought the Philippines is one of the places headed for disaster with the throttle foot firmly on the floor.

John
 
I'm not sure. I just returned from a trip to the Philippines, and while we did get some species that were especially unusual, I would say finding some of those species was rather difficult. So I think there's room for further expansion since there's potential for further development (roads, lodging, etc.) in some countries which could open up more "easier" locations.

The Philippines has never been any easy destination for birding, some species requiring arduous treks, at least when I did it.

Plenty of species are easier than they ever were, Eagle Owl, Isabela Oriole, same in Borneo where many nightbirds in particular, are more gettable than they ever were.
 
Yes, the Philippines is a good example, I think. There are plenty of species that were almost unknown when I first visited and are now well staked-out. It's probably never been easier. However, some birds that were once standard fare such as Philippine Eagle and Celestial Monarch seem to be getting harder, and no longer guaranteed.
 
Yes, the Philippines is a good example, I think. There are plenty of species that were almost unknown when I first visited and are now well staked-out. It's probably never been easier. However, some birds that were once standard fare such as Philippine Eagle and Celestial Monarch seem to be getting harder, and no longer guaranteed.
Dipped both two years back (one too early in the year, the other heard only).
 
I think we're closer to hitting peak birding than we think. It won't be long before most birders are too busy scrabbling around trying to find food like the majority of other people.
 
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I'm not sure. I just returned from a trip to the Philippines, and while we did get some species that were especially unusual, I would say finding some of those species was rather difficult. So I think there's room for further expansion since there's potential for further development (roads, lodging, etc.) in some countries which could open up more "easier" locations.

Wow! The hypocrisy in this post is something else. Encouraging destruction of natural habitats for the extremely selfish activity of world listing? And with no responsibility taken for the ultimate extinction of the species you are viewing?
 
Wow! The hypocrisy in this post is something else. Encouraging destruction of natural habitats for the extremely selfish activity of world listing? And with no responsibility taken for the ultimate extinction of the species you are viewing?

It's usually the opposite, when there is cash to be made from tourism, it often ensures a species continued existence.

What's the difference if you travel to see birds or sit on a beach with your family, carbon footprint is the same.

You never travel I assume unless it's on your high horse?
 
One aspect of this forum I find especially intriguing is how people now about each and every obscure species in ... well, each and every obscure location. How do you people get to the point, where you know which village to go for a specific bird in the Philippines? There is 10000+ birds in the world, are your lists really that close to this number?

I think of myself as someone who travels a lot. Sure, I have been really birding only since 2012, but I was looking for everything around me for years before that. Yet my world list is only at 2000 - so maybe I am doing something wrong by not having all this extremely specific info, but not only I have no idea where to get it, but it also feels a little bit like a chore. Instead I usually just go to a good looking destination and just rake in all the species that happen to show themselves to me - and in rich places it means a lot of species anyway. And I am quite definitely not feeling like running out of steam this way any time soon, with 8k+ species still left to see. In a purely mathematics and slightly morbid extrapolation, I should simply be statistically dead before this becomes an issue.
 
One aspect of this forum I find especially intriguing is how people now about each and every obscure species in ... well, each and every obscure location. How do you people get to the point, where you know which village to go for a specific bird in the Philippines? There is 10000+ birds in the world, are your lists really that close to this number?

I think of myself as someone who travels a lot. Sure, I have been really birding only since 2012, but I was looking for everything around me for years before that. Yet my world list is only at 2000 - so maybe I am doing something wrong by not having all this extremely specific info, but not only I have no idea where to get it, but it also feels a little bit like a chore. Instead I usually just go to a good looking destination and just rake in all the species that happen to show themselves to me - and in rich places it means a lot of species anyway. And I am quite definitely not feeling like running out of steam this way any time soon, with 8k+ species still left to see. In a purely mathematics and slightly morbid extrapolation, I should simply be statistically dead before this becomes an issue.

Through a combination of OCD and spending way too much time reading trip reports!

The sort of familiarity you describe generally comes from an iterative process: a first visit to a particular destination is generally about visiting the main sites and seeing what you can. Subsequent visits tend to focus on what you have missed.

Trust me, you will be happier if you stick to your current strategy!
 
Through a combination of OCD and spending way too much time reading trip reports!

The sort of familiarity you describe generally comes from an iterative process: a first visit to a particular destination is generally about visiting the main sites and seeing what you can. Subsequent visits tend to focus on what you have missed.

Trust me, you will be happier if you stick to your current strategy!

So trip reports are the main source of information for this? I always imagined secret meetings of an underground cabal, because frankly, the amount of detail some people consider "common knowledge" is astounding. Now this may sound a bit ungrateful, but in such a case it is a bit of a shame that so many reports are such world salads describing what the people had for dinner and such ...

Anyway, I somewhat get it, because I do the same when it comes to WP birding, but even there I feel like I am trailing the pack out of sheer laziness to read up on things properly. But the sheer amount of species in the world, especially in tropical destinations, that is simply hard to imagine for me to do any real preparation.

Still the question is, how the people who wrote the reports got the intel in the first place? A lot of those were just guided by locals I guess? I just hope as many people as possible put their sightings from travels on ebird (or, if they really have to, observation.org), because that is about the least repulsive way to look for birding locations.
 
So trip reports are the main source of information for this? I always imagined secret meetings of an underground cabal, because frankly, the amount of detail some people consider "common knowledge" is astounding. Now this may sound a bit ungrateful, but in such a case it is a bit of a shame that so many reports are such world salads describing what the people had for dinner and such ...

I just hope as many people as possible put their sightings from travels on ebird (or, if they really have to, observation.org), because that is about the least repulsive way to look for birding locations.

Dearie me!

I wonder who wrote this in a trip report, there's not a single bird mentioned in a whole paragraph:

"Mosquitoes are indeed an annoyance here but it's on average really not worse than a forested area in Poland - only that I usually know better than to go to those in July :) There are some places where the insects (also the smallish horseflies) are distracting, but it is very local; interestingly, it's the worst in the evening, while mornings are probably too cold and thus are much better (this is definitely not the case in Poland). Sometimes it's hard yo find a place to chill, but right now, I accidentally summited the highest point of Minnesota and the reward is not only the stupendous view and cell phone reception, but also a mosquito-free breeze." 3:)

Come on... the best trip reports aren't just lists of birds. Or even of birds, mammals, herps, butterflies, Odonata.... :t:

Cheers

John
 
Dearie me!

I wonder who wrote this in a trip report, there's not a single bird mentioned in a whole paragraph:

"Mosquitoes are indeed an annoyance here but it's on average really not worse than a forested area in Poland - only that I usually know better than to go to those in July :) There are some places where the insects (also the smallish horseflies) are distracting, but it is very local; interestingly, it's the worst in the evening, while mornings are probably too cold and thus are much better (this is definitely not the case in Poland). Sometimes it's hard yo find a place to chill, but right now, I accidentally summited the highest point of Minnesota and the reward is not only the stupendous view and cell phone reception, but also a mosquito-free breeze." 3:)

Come on... the best trip reports aren't just lists of birds. Or even of birds, mammals, herps, butterflies, Odonata.... :t:

Cheers

John

:clap: :clap: :clap:

That was indeed pretty well done here! I should be angry now, but I am actually pleased that someone read that thing :) I have no problem admitting that I would be having trouble finding relevant information in my own reports, but I do not feel the burden of responsibility as I only rarely go to places where other people haven't been recently and thus my reports aren't the crucial pieces of information infrastructure, allowing me to be more poetic!
 
So trip reports are the main source of information for this? I always imagined secret meetings of an underground cabal, because frankly, the amount of detail some people consider "common knowledge" is astounding. Now this may sound a bit ungrateful, but in such a case it is a bit of a shame that so many reports are such world salads describing what the people had for dinner and such ...

Anyway, I somewhat get it, because I do the same when it comes to WP birding, but even there I feel like I am trailing the pack out of sheer laziness to read up on things properly. But the sheer amount of species in the world, especially in tropical destinations, that is simply hard to imagine for me to do any real preparation.

Still the question is, how the people who wrote the reports got the intel in the first place? A lot of those were just guided by locals I guess? I just hope as many people as possible put their sightings from travels on ebird (or, if they really have to, observation.org), because that is about the least repulsive way to look for birding locations.

I did the Philippines in 2002, a mix of reports and contacts but it's a tough one involving numerous islands, some tough walks and some weird local customs.

Here's a short extract from our report regarding access Mt Kitanglad.

'It is also necessary to perform a small ceremony for the local tribe to allow access to the mountain, Carlito will advise any visitors and make arrangements for this. The ceremony requires ‘gifts’ of two1m2 pieces of cloth, one red, one white, three white chickens and 3 bottles of white wine. For the short ceremony we were taken to a house in Dalwangan village where one of the chickens was killed and its’ blood drained into a bowl, a feather was then removed, dipped in the blood and wiped briefly over the front and backs of our hands'.
 
When we went to Kitanglad, Carlito was "otherwise indisposed" for a couple of years, and his relatives made arrangements. No ceremony was involved, thankfully. Carlito seems to have led a colourful life, including being shot in the leg by the Philippine Army when they mistook a birding group for NPA rebels. I have read that forest has now been cleared for agriculture all the way up to the Del Monte lodge.

The only ceremony I have had to undergo was on Mt Kupe in Cameroon. This involved buying a crate of beer and a few bottles of whisky, and then sitting around drinking it with the chief and villagers! Seemed fair enough...
 
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