Immature Gull ID (1 Viewer)

Φ-Filippos · Feb 9, 2014

This bird was seen in January at Limassol, Cyprus. There are Armenian Gulls, Yellow-Legged Gulls and Caspian Gulls around but the immature ones are confusingly alike. I think this one is a 1st-winter Armenian Gull but am not sure.
Any help will be welcome!

lou salomon · Feb 9, 2014

hi filippos and welcome to birdforum!

your bird looks very like what i associate with a 1st winter armenian gull in structure (short, stubby bill), overall pale underparts and filigrane scapular markings. do you have more pics with this bird? and other gull pics from your interesting neck of the wood

?

Iraq Babbler · Feb 9, 2014

Hello
Upper wing scapular, 2nd generation scaler , mc replaced, pale base bill I would suggest 2cy bird, however the new scap. feathers seems too pale for AG and convenient for the resident YLG, so more side-on pics for this gull would help allot to assess the jizz and structure.

Omar

Φ-Filippos · Feb 10, 2014

Hi friends,
thanks for your valuable input
Here are some more photos of the same bird
Hope they help!

Iraq Babbler · Feb 10, 2014

Hello

2cy Yellow-legged Gull female IMO

Omar

lou salomon · Feb 10, 2014

still 2cy (female type) armenian gull for me. but separating the two is hard due to individual variation. it could easily be a YLG, but jizz, striation on head and even on breast, overall paleness and more cachi-like scapular pattern strongly suggest armenicus for me.

Iraq Babbler · Feb 10, 2014

lou salomon said:
still 2cy (female type) armenian gull for me. but separating the two is hard due to individual variation. it could easily be a YLG, but jizz, striation on head and even on breast, overall paleness and more cachi-like scapular pattern strongly suggest armenicus for me.

Hi Lou

Well, difficult on matter of variation, the jizz with sloped head rule out Armenian For me, so exclude the gene flow and do mtDNA analysis

Omar

Φ-Filippos · Feb 10, 2014

Thanks again to both for your input!
I am puzzled with some details that seem to suggest other than what the textbooks suggest about 2ndCY YLG, namely the lack of a pale tip to the bill, not enough white on the edges of the tertials and the greater coverts not being darker than the median coverts.
I should probably also say that according to the records given during those days by the regular birdwatchers for the specific area, AGs where plenty and YLGs very few.

JANJ · Feb 10, 2014

Agree with Lou on armenicus.

http://www.gull-research.org/armenicus/2cy/2cyjan07.html

JanJ

Φ-Filippos · Feb 10, 2014

JanJ thanks for the opinion, much valued.
Your link is very useful!
I think im pretty convinced now that its an Armenian Gull.

Iraq Babbler · Feb 10, 2014

Φ-Filippos;2926286 said:
JanJ thanks for the opinion, much valued.
Your link is very useful!
I think im pretty convinced now that its an Armenian Gull.

Hello

I think it is still YlG and the pic from Israel is quite different in the molt stage of the OP birds, also for the textbook notes regarding 2cy YLG we have revwied the gcv. and there is a quite visible pale tip in your bird in pic.1 of the last set you've posted.

Omar

smiths · Feb 10, 2014

Iraq Babbler said:
Hi Lou

Well, difficult on matter of variation, the jizz with sloped head rule out Armenian For me, so exclude the gene flow and do mtDNA analysis

Omar

I fail to see why a sloping head profile would necessarily rule out Armenian Gull.
Some photos attached from the breeding colony at Sevan, Armenia, June 2013.
Note variation in head shape.

Immature Gull ID (1 Viewer)

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