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Leupold Gold Ring HD 8x32 versus SV 8x32

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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 03:12   #26
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I think the GR is one of the most unique and unusual binoculars I have ever had. It is sad that there is no more USA made binoculars. We can make a quality binocular here. Is this really the last USA made binocular?
I don't pull the heads off baby chicks at Easter, but who said the GR was made here? It was not. Even so, its point of origin is of little consequence if you like its feel or performance.

Bill
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 04:44   #27
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I don't pull the heads off baby chicks at Easter, but who said the GR was made here? It was not. Even so, its point of origin is of little consequence if you like its feel or performance.

Bill
Your wrong. The Leupold Gold Ring was made in the USA. Every ad from every dealer say it was. Here is one from Cabella's and many say it was. It might have some Japanese optics in it but it was assembled in the good ole USA.

"Leupold® Golden Ring® HD Binoculars
These award-winning binoculars have been made even better for 2007 with the addition of an HD objective lens element and new PlasmaCoat&#8482 antireflective lens coatings. Phase coated prisms work with the lens system to eliminate diffraction and ensure peak clarity. Leupold's exclusive DiamondCoat™ an Index Matched Lens System® matches lens coatings to each lens for superior performance and optimal light management. DiamondCoat on exterior lens surfaces provides superior scratch resistance. Innovative interpupilary distance lock enables fast one-hand use. Comfortable, twist-up eyecups with long eye relief. Second Generation Argon/Krypton waterproofing is guaranteed for life. Made in USA.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 05:11   #28
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http://www.leupold.com/about-us/leupold-living-history/

This very interesting "Living History" of Leupold in pictures is basically an advertisement for Leupold and some of the information given in it requires more explanation and documentation if it is to be considered a proper history.

For example, scroll down to 1992.

Where were Leupold's binoculars manufactured before 1992?

Regarding the Gold Ring binoculars which were "manufactured in the United States" beginning 1992, we should ask if Leupold made the glass for its lenses. Also we should inquire where its lenses were made and where their coatings were applied. And did Leupold make the prisms for the Gold Rim during the period it was "manufactured in the United States?" The same questions could be asked about where the objective tubes were made and where the eyepieces were were assembled.

Also we should inquire where Leupold's other binocular models were manufactured during this period and by whom. And finally, who makes Leupolds binoculars now?

Leupold currently employs over 650 people and that is very commendable!

Bob

Last edited by ceasar : Tuesday 21st October 2014 at 06:09. Reason: grammar, punctuation and additional comments.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 05:34   #29
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TBH it's quite the opposite.

I'm a member of several forums and I can honestly say this is the most laissez-faire of the lot. Most of the time we assume that members can behave like adults and don't need heavy policing. There are plenty of forums where banning takes place on a daily basis for all sorts of 'infringements'.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 05:47   #30
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Your wrong. The Leupold Gold Ring was made in the USA. Every ad from every dealer say it was. Here is one from Cabella's and many say it was. It might have some Japanese optics in it but it was assembled in the good ole USA.

"Leupold® Golden Ring® HD Binoculars
These award-winning binoculars have been made even better for 2007 with the addition of an HD objective lens element and new PlasmaCoat™ antireflective lens coatings. Phase coated prisms work with the lens system to eliminate diffraction and ensure peak clarity. Leupold's exclusive DiamondCoat™ an Index Matched Lens System® matches lens coatings to each lens for superior performance and optimal light management. DiamondCoat on exterior lens surfaces provides superior scratch resistance. Innovative interpupilary distance lock enables fast one-hand use. Comfortable, twist-up eyecups with long eye relief. Second Generation Argon/Krypton waterproofing is guaranteed for life. Made in USA.
Many of the Fujinon ARs, have a little plastic axle cap that says "Made in the USA." Of course, MANY are ASSEMBLED in the USA (Chula Vista, California) in order to garner US government contracts. However, they’re assembled mainly from components MANUFACTURED in Japan. Don’t get me wrong, it’s just that I have been trying to put this to rest for YEARS.

I would be thrilled to be PROVEN wrong! (And yes, I know what their website says.) But opinions aren’t going to do that. And, I don’t care what is written on the side of a box.** I want to see MOLDS, FURNACES, TEST EQUIPMENT, BINOCULAR COLLIMATORS, RUBBER AND LEATHERETTE CUTTING DEVICES, LENS CENTERING MACHINES, GLASS KILNS, etc. In the 90s, according to one of their reps, there were two pocket models ASSEMBLED in Beaverton. But a binocular plant is a HUGE UNDERTAKING. The old Corning Works in New York, alone, took 17 acres.

I can no longer afford to spend $100 to anyone who can prove me wrong. But I will make the offer I have made at other times.

I will give you $50 if you can PROVE that there is a CONSUMER line of binoculars manufactured (as opposed to ASSEMBLED), not just in Oregon, but anywhere in the United States. That’s a good faith gesture to help make your task easier.

When I offered that before, I was given 3 days’ worth of strong OPINIONS and some photos of women cleaning lenses in a RIFLE SCOPE FACTORY (Leupold), but none of the things mentioned above. If you can do better than the others, I will be happy as a clam that something of a binocular industry has returned to the States, send you $50 to celebrate, let my embarrassment flow, and gleefully apologize to all! I can’t tell you how happy I would be to be wrong on this.

Before I will accept that, however, I will return to their plant with my camera. I’ve been there twice, but wouldn’t mind the drive down. I have much respect for Leupold products; I just want the actual point of MANUFACTURE to be cleared up. ASSEMBLY and MANUFACTURE are two different things, and require vastly different equipment.

Cheers,

Bill

** I have a photo of a European binocular that came in a BOX that stated "Made in _________________." And, the BOX was! The binocular, however, was made in Japan.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 06:22   #31
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Many of the Fujinon ARs, have a little plastic axle cap that says "Made in the USA." Of course, MANY are ASSEMBLED in the USA (Chula Vista, California) in order to garner US government contracts. However, they’re assembled mainly from components MANUFACTURED in Japan. Don’t get me wrong, it’s just that I have been trying to put this to rest for YEARS.

I would be thrilled to be PROVEN wrong! (And yes, I know what their website says.) But opinions aren’t going to do that. And, I don’t care what is written on the side of a box.** I want to see MOLDS, FURNACES, TEST EQUIPMENT, BINOCULAR COLLIMATORS, RUBBER AND LEATHERETTE CUTTING DEVICES, LENS CENTERING MACHINES, GLASS KILNS, etc. In the 90s, according to one of their reps, there were two pocket models ASSEMBLED in Beaverton. But a binocular plant is a HUGE UNDERTAKING. The old Corning Works in New York, alone, took 17 acres.

I can no longer afford to spend $100 to anyone who can prove me wrong. But I will make the offer I have made at other times.

I will give you $50 if you can PROVE that there is a CONSUMER line of binoculars manufactured, not just in Oregon, but anywhere in the United States. That’s a good faith gesture to help make your task easier.

When I offered that before, I was given 3 days’ worth of strong OPINIONS and some photos of women cleaning lenses in a RIFLE SCOPE FACTORY (Leupold), but none of the things mentioned above. If you can do better than the others, I will be happy as a clam that something of a binocular industry has returned to the States, send you $50 to celebrate, let my embarrassment flow, and gleefully apologize to all! I can’t tell you how happy I would be to be wrong on this.

Before I will accept that, however, I will return to their plant with my camera. I’ve been there twice, but wouldn’t mind the drive down. I have much respect for Leupold products; I just want the actual point of MANUFACTURE to be cleared up. ASSEMBLY and MANUFACTURE are two different things, and require vastly different equipment.

Cheers,

Bill

** I have a photo of a European binocular that came in a BOX that stated "Made in _________________." And, the BOX was! The binocular, however, was made in Japan.
Oh come on! If a binocular is assembled in the USA it is made in the USA. There are very few products these days that are not assembled from parts that are made all over the world. Look at automobiles. They have parts from all over the world in them. Zeiss binoculars says they are made in Germany but I guarantee you they are not TOTALLY made in Germany. You don't have to MAKE every piece of the binocular to be made in the USA.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 06:41   #32
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Oh come on! If a binocular is assembled in the USA it is made in the USA. There are very few products these days that are not assembled from parts that are made all over the world. Look at automobiles. They have parts from all over the world in them. Zeiss binoculars says they are made in Germany but I guarantee you they are not TOTALLY made in Germany. You don't have to MAKE every piece of the binocular to be made in the USA.
Not at all, Denco. But you have proven my point; everybody's stuffs is made everywhere else. You want a Jaguar? Send a check to Ford, etc. For many years, Steiner was so big in the United States because they were German. But many have been re-branded Asian instruments for years, making plenty of money off people who THOUGHT they were buying a German product. And what about the Adlerblick Fernglasser made by Carton in Japan. Was there no attempt at trickery, there?

I am far from wanting any contention, but there is a reason why the words MANUFACTURED and ASSEMBLED have different definitions. Regardless of how things have been watered down, today, those words represent TWO distinct processes. If they were the same, they would share their roles. But, while you can "manufacture" a baseball bat, you can't "assemble" one. If you see ASSEMBLED as meaning MANUFACTURED, I will wish you well. However, I guess that means we will never see eye to eye on the issue. That's okay. Jimmy Stewart was a dyed-in-the-wool Republican. Henry Fonda was a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat. Still, they were best friends since they went to college and started their acting careers together. I guess then, as Dr. Steven Covey would say, we should "agree to disagree agreeably."

Cheers,

Bill
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 13:53   #33
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This seems pretty clear (see link below) to me. They admit there are some foreign parts (esp lenses of course) but the GR optics are
designed, machined, assembled and tested in Oregon. I'll assume it was the same way with their GR
binoculars. This sounds good enough to me in this day and age. I'd rather see Leupold make their bins here, but I guess they had
to do what everyone else is doing to stay afloat.
I'm not knocking Asian optics makers here. I have proudly owned very nice Japanese and Chinese bins.
But, it would be nice to see Leupold continue the tradition of making their top line GR binoculars back in Oregon someday.


http://www.leupold.com/about-us/amer...ics-authority/

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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 14:35   #34
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I am far from wanting any contention, but there is a reason why the words MANUFACTURED and ASSEMBLED have different definitions. Regardless of how things have been watered down, today, those words represent TWO distinct processes. If they were the same, they would share their roles. But, while you can "manufacture" a baseball bat, you can't "assemble" one. If you see ASSEMBLED as meaning MANUFACTURED, I will wish you well. However, I guess that means we will never see eye to eye on the issue. That's okay. Jimmy Stewart was a dyed-in-the-wool Republican. Henry Fonda was a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat. Still, they were best friends since they went to college and started their acting careers together. I guess then, as Dr. Steven Covey would say, we should "agree to disagree agreeably."

Cheers,

Bill
I'm sure you know more about this than anyone here due to all of your
experience in your profession.

'Made in the USA' means something very different than it used to as you point out. But I'll take designed, assembled and tested here since it's still more involvement (and extra jobs) than just farming it out.

I'll use some standard catchphrases (not as good as ones you come up with)
since you like to end your posts with them:

It's ...

" good enough"
"Better than nothing"
"The way of the world"

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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 16:15   #35
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They are fine binoculars, excellent in fact. I had both runs very little to distinguish between them.

Diopter ring was the only difference, optics on both were excellent.

The only reason I got rid of the last PR, wife had problems with the fast focus, should have kept them.

Optically superb!

Bryce...
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 16:32   #36
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http://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/

Meopta, a Czech manufacturer of optics, has a plant in Hauppauge, Long Island, New York where they employ many people. Cabelas sells binoculars under its own brand name which are made by Meopta. They look like Meoptas and have similar prices. Does anyone know if they are either manufactured and/or assembled in the USA or in the Czech Republic?

And would it make any difference to you? Or do you really care one way or the other?

And that brings up another question: Would you rather have a binocular "manufactured" or "assembled" in the USA sourced from a Czech binocular manufacturer or one from a Japanese manufacturer?

Decisions, Decisions!

Bob

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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:05   #37
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The first class Leupold warranty has to be worth a mention.

I've posted this before but there's no harm in repeating it here : I recently dropped a line to Leupold asking if they could date the year of manufacture from the serial number of a binocular unit.

Their reply was, and I quote “My screen is not showing a year of manufacture, but it is coming up as an authentic Leupold bino. Return it to us asking for it to be returned as close as possible to "factory condition". We'll do so and ship them back to you on our dime”.

And that for a long discontinued entry level line.

Thanks, that alone would suffice as a recommendation.

Btw, Den, now you have migrated to Greeley you have Burris on your doorstep, but that's another story.

Best wishes,
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:18   #38
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Not at all, Denco. But you have proven my point; everybody's stuffs is made everywhere else. You want a Jaguar? Send a check to Ford, etc. For many years, Steiner was so big in the United States because they were German. But many have been re-branded Asian instruments for years, making plenty of money off people who THOUGHT they were buying a German product. And what about the Adlerblick Fernglasser made by Carton in Japan. Was there no attempt at trickery, there?

I am far from wanting any contention, but there is a reason why the words MANUFACTURED and ASSEMBLED have different definitions. Regardless of how things have been watered down, today, those words represent TWO distinct processes. If they were the same, they would share their roles. But, while you can "manufacture" a baseball bat, you can't "assemble" one. If you see ASSEMBLED as meaning MANUFACTURED, I will wish you well. However, I guess that means we will never see eye to eye on the issue. That's okay. Jimmy Stewart was a dyed-in-the-wool Republican. Henry Fonda was a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat. Still, they were best friends since they went to college and started their acting careers together. I guess then, as Dr. Steven Covey would say, we should "agree to disagree agreeably."

Cheers,

Bill
The way I see it there are very few complex meaning many parts items manufactured in ONE place anymore. Too if it is assembled there that is where it is made but that is just me. How does everybody else feel about this. I guess you could go by the auto industry method and require a certain percentage of the parts to be made in that country to be the required method of determining if an item is made in that country but I am not sure that is necessary either.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:20   #39
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This seems pretty clear (see link below) to me. They admit there are some foreign parts (esp lenses of course) but the GR optics are
designed, machined, assembled and tested in Oregon. I'll assume it was the same way with their GR
binoculars. This sounds good enough to me in this day and age. I'd rather see Leupold make their bins here, but I guess they had
to do what everyone else is doing to stay afloat.
I'm not knocking Asian optics makers here. I have proudly owned very nice Japanese and Chinese bins.
But, it would be nice to see Leupold continue the tradition of making their top line GR binoculars back in Oregon someday.


http://www.leupold.com/about-us/amer...ics-authority/
That's enough for me Annabeth. The picture of that factory is proof enough. They don't have to make the glass in the USA in my opinion.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:21   #40
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I'm sure you know more about this than anyone here due to all of your
experience in your profession.

'Made in the USA' means something very different than it used to as you point out. But I'll take designed, assembled and tested here since it's still more involvement (and extra jobs) than just farming it out.

I'll use some standard catchphrases (not as good as ones you come up with)
since you like to end your posts with them:

It's ...

" good enough"
"Better than nothing"
"The way of the world"

"It's ...

" good enough"
"Better than nothing"
"The way of the world"

That is exactly how I feel about it.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:24   #41
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They are fine binoculars, excellent in fact. I had both runs very little to distinguish between them.

Diopter ring was the only difference, optics on both were excellent.

The only reason I got rid of the last PR, wife had problems with the fast focus, should have kept them.

Optically superb!

Bryce...
Do you mean you had the Japanese and USA versions by both runs? So later on they were made in Japan? They certainly are high quality binoculars. WAY beyond the Chinese stuff.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:27   #42
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http://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/

Meopta, a Czech manufacturer of optics, has a plant in Hauppauge, Long Island, New York where they employ many people. Cabelas sells binoculars under its own brand name which are made by Meopta. They look like Meoptas and have similar prices. Does anyone know if they are either manufactured and/or assembled in the USA or in the Czech Republic?

And would it make any difference to you? Or do you really care one way or the other?

And that brings up another question: Would you rather have a binocular "manufactured" or "assembled" in the USA sourced from a Czech binocular manufacturer or one from a Japanese manufacturer?

Decisions, Decisions!

Bob
IMO I would prefer Japanese sourced over Czech. Just because of experience with both. The Japanese make some fine lenses. It is great they are assembled in the US though. As Annabeth said give the US some jobs.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:30   #43
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The first class Leupold warranty has to be worth a mention.

I've posted this before but there's no harm in repeating it here : I recently dropped a line to Leupold asking if they could date the year of manufacture from the serial number of a binocular unit.

Their reply was, and I quote “My screen is not showing a year of manufacture, but it is coming up as an authentic Leupold bino. Return it to us asking for it to be returned as close as possible to "factory condition". We'll do so and ship them back to you on our dime”.

And that for a long discontinued entry level line.

Thanks, that alone would suffice as a recommendation.

Btw, Den, now you have migrated to Greeley you have Burris on your doorstep, but that's another story.

Best wishes,
That is an amazing warranty. Leupold has always had excellent rifle scopes and they have been around along time. Who is Burris?
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:32   #44
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Methinks this thread has gone sideways.

I have NEVER impugned the Gold Ring . . . ever. It was the good things I was hearing about it that caused me to call the Leupold Rep up to see me. I didn't care about point of origin. I was just interested in the binocular. That's when I heard about the “assembly” of the two pocket models.

In addition, I have respect for Leupold as a company. A company that snatches any part of the process back from Asia, to place it on American soil, has my wholehearted support.

Being a little too human, I just get close to the edge when someone with no real experience starts acting like there are bino manufacturers all over the States. The following is a PARAPHRASE from a letter I received:

“You think you know it all. What about Meade, Celestron, Bushnell, Tasco, etc.? Are you saying they're not American companies?”

My answer was that they are ALL American companies. American companies that IMPORT the binoculars that carry their names.

As mentioned earlier, David Bushnell was just guy with a B.A. In Foreign Commerce from USC. The letter writer mentioned Bushnell and Tasco. We might as well throw in the third member of the triumvirate—Jason. All three of which are now serving Americans from their strategically located WAREHOUSE in Overland Park, Kansas.

Even worse is the notion that each of these companies have a repair staff at the ready to serve them. They don't; that's why the no-fault warranties became so popular. When a “repair” comes in requiring more than a tweak here and there, most companies just replaced it. I could share some scary stories about some pretty famous “repair” departments. But, there would be those who would assume I was lying, while the companies in question cranked up their lawyers to sue me. So, I just do the best I can to help my neighbors, who really want to know, and leave the Pollyannas to their own beliefs. 'Next thing you know, I'll be telling folks there's no Santa!

Please, though, don't take my cut-to-the-chase verbiage to mean I being pushy or in some way vindictive. I'm just trying to give my neighbors some things to think about that frequently go against urban legends and popular notions.

“This ship CAN'T sink! Bruce Ismay, Titanic, 2003
“I assure you, sir, it can; and it will!” Thomas Andrews, same
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:38   #45
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Who is Burris?
A while ago I put a review of the Burris Montana 8x32 here : http://www.birdforum.net/reviews/sho...5/limit/recent
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:41   #46
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Please, though, don't take my cut-to-the-chase verbiage to mean I being pushy or in some way vindictive. I'm just trying to give my neighbors some things to think about that frequently go against urban legends and popular notions.
I didn't think you were being that way...I know you are speaking from experience and it's always welcome IMO when you share your stories
from an insider's POV. :)
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:45   #47
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Not at all, Denco. But you have proven my point; everybody's stuffs is made everywhere else. You want a Jaguar? Send a check to Ford, etc.
Cheers,

Bill
I think that would upset Ratan Tata any Cyrus Mistry

Rich
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:51   #48
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Methinks this thread has gone sideways.

I have NEVER impugned the Gold Ring . . . ever. It was the good things I was hearing about it that caused me to call the Leupold Rep up to see me. I didn't care about point of origin. I was just interested in the binocular. That's when I heard about the “assembly” of the two pocket models.

In addition, I have respect for Leupold as a company. A company that snatches any part of the process back from Asia, to place it on American soil, has my wholehearted support.

Being a little too human, I just get close to the edge when someone with no real experience starts acting like there are bino manufacturers all over the States. The following is a PARAPHRASE from a letter I received:

“You think you know it all. What about Meade, Celestron, Bushnell, Tasco, etc.? Are you saying they're not American companies?”

My answer was that they are ALL American companies. American companies that IMPORT the binoculars that carry their names.

As mentioned earlier, David Bushnell was just guy with a B.A. In Foreign Commerce from USC. The letter writer mentioned Bushnell and Tasco. We might as well throw in the third member of the triumvirate—Jason. All three of which are now serving Americans from their strategically located WAREHOUSE in Overland Park, Kansas.

Even worse is the notion that each of these companies have a repair staff at the ready to serve them. They don't; that's why the no-fault warranties became so popular. When a “repair” comes in requiring more than a tweak here and there, most companies just replaced it. I could share some scary stories about some pretty famous “repair” departments. But, there would be those who would assume I was lying, while the companies in question cranked up their lawyers to sue me. So, I just do the best I can to help my neighbors, who really want to know, and leave the Pollyannas to their own beliefs. 'Next thing you know, I'll be telling folks there's no Santa!

Please, though, don't take my cut-to-the-chase verbiage to mean I being pushy or in some way vindictive. I'm just trying to give my neighbors some things to think about that frequently go against urban legends and popular notions.

“This ship CAN'T sink! Bruce Ismay, Titanic, 2003
“I assure you, sir, it can; and it will!” Thomas Andrews, same
Discussing this made in topic has me thinking. What percentage of say the alpha binoculars are actually made in the country they are from? What % of Zeiss are actually made in Germany? What % of Swarovski's are made in Austria? What % of Nikon are made in Japan? Does anybody really know?
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:56   #49
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A while ago I put a review of the Burris Montana 8x32 here : http://www.birdforum.net/reviews/sho...5/limit/recent
Interesting. Maybe I will go check them out. Everything is made in China though so it is probably just a little front office with one receptionist in it.
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Old Tuesday 21st October 2014, 19:58   #50
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Discussing this made in topic has me thinking. What percentage of say the alpha binoculars are actually made in the country they are from? What % of Zeiss are actually made in Germany? What % of Swarovski's are made in Austria? What % of Nikon are made in Japan? Does anybody really know?
When you get to the Alpha-Alphas, they keep things pretty close to the vest. Some one asked about Burris, that little western US company that imports STEINER. . . . Oh, yeah, the one that's actually owned by Beretta, in ITALY! . . . which now OWNS Steiner.

Let's play musical optics.

Bill
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Last edited by WJC : Tuesday 21st October 2014 at 21:05.
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