Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Arghhh! Need better quality than P90 better portability than 600m

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Friday 5th October 2018, 10:37   #1
vilbs
Registered User
 
vilbs's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tewkesbury
Posts: 136
Arghhh! Need better quality than P90 better portability than 600m

Hi there. So I love photography, particularly birding.

I have an EOS 7D and I purchased a Tamron 150-600. Great lens but the bulk/weight meant I wasn't taking it out as much as I should so was missing opportunities.

I then went to the other extreme, sold my lens (not the body) and bought Nikon P90. What reach! and what portability! Really love it and I take it everywhere - also love the fact that its got the built in GPS. However the 2 things I have struggled with (hence this post) is the quality and (to a lesser extent) the digital button press zoom (rather than a quick twist of the lens).

I know you can't have it all but my question is - can someone recommend a middle ground? I would happily sacrifice half of the P90s reach for a lift in quality.

Budget wise probably about £600 either for a new lens (for the 7D) or something to replace the P90. It just needs to be able to take photos in slightly gloomy British woods :)

Any help much appreciated!
vilbs is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 5th October 2018, 11:02   #2
poledark
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Canterbury Kent UK
Posts: 311
You could spend a bit more and get the P1000 :) As for a quick twist zoom you won't get that with a long reach zoom lens, maybe two or three twists ?

I am getting good results on overcast days, better than with the P900.

A bit heavier than the 900 but much lighter than a big lens combo.

Den
poledark is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 5th October 2018, 13:47   #3
Jim M.
Choose Civility

 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilbs View Post
I know you can't have it all but my question is - can someone recommend a middle ground? I would happily sacrifice half of the P90s reach for a lift in quality.

I think the middle ground you want can be found in the micro 4/3rds system (Olympus & Panasonic). Much larger sensor than any superzoom, but a 2x crop factor, so you get twice the reach out of your lens and much less weight to carry around than your current DSLR setup. But entering the system would require a new body and lens, so would be hard to do within the budget you specify. But as you say, you cannot have it all.
__________________
My Micro 4/3 birds, insects, & other wildlife photo gallery:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums

Last edited by Jim M. : Friday 5th October 2018 at 14:40.
Jim M. is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 5th October 2018, 14:56   #4
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 704
Hi Vilbs,

Quote:
Originally Posted by vilbs View Post
I know you can't have it all but my question is - can someone recommend a middle ground? I would happily sacrifice half of the P90s reach for a lift in quality.
The Panasonic DMC FZ1000 might be a camera to consider.

The sensor size is much larger, and at least compared to Panasonic's FZ200, which has a sensor of the same general size as the P900, the FZ1000's image quality is definitely a lot better.

I'm not sure of how to quantify "reach", but the FZ1000 has only half the *actual* focal length of the P900, which in combination with the larger pixel sensors almost certainly means that you'll lose quite a bit of "reach".

The *equivalent* focal length of the FZ1000 is 400 mm, that of the FZ200 is 600 mm. Still, the FZ1000 in my opinion has the better "reach" under virtually all conditions.

The P900 has an impressive 2000 mm equivalent focal length. That's a great unique selling proposition for sure ... :-)

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 5th October 2018, 15:16   #5
Zackiedawg
Registered User
 
Zackiedawg's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA
Posts: 970
Another middle-ground option might be the Sony RX10 series - notably the last two versions, III and IV. The newest RX10 IV is pricey, and you probably won't find one around at your price range - but the slightly older RX10III could be a good match. The image quality and lens are unchanged between the III and IV versions - the big upgrades for the IV version were an on-sensor PDAF focus system allowing much better continuous focus tracking. But for single focus and non-flying photography, the III has the same 600mm equivalent reach and same 1", 20MP sensor...significantly larger and better than the tiny sensors in your P series superzooms, and a little smaller than that of the M4:3 and APS-C sensor cameras. The FZ1000 also uses the 1" sensor size.

New the RX10 will probably be in the £900 range, but used will be usually under £600...a lot of fairly lightly used ones will be out there since a lot of RX10III owners upgraded to the IV within a year or so.
__________________
Justin Miller

Zackiedawg's Photography Gallery
Zackiedawg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 01:09   #6
marcsantacurz
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 345
I'd second the RX10 iii as a good 600mm budget friendly used option. I suspect you'll find the AF and tracking better on the RX10 than the FZ200, but I've not used the FZ200.

Some also really like the Nikon 1 V3 + adapter + AF-P DX VR 70-300, which will make it about 700mm I think. You'll get the VR functionality on the Nikon 1 V3, but I don't think you can use AF-C.

If you want birds in flight, you need to pay attention to autofocus speed and tracking and will likely want a DSLR/mirrorless or something like RX10.

Note that in micro four thirds (MFT), a lot of the cameras suck at AF speed and tracking. The Oly EM1.2 and the Panasonic GH5, but I think the OM1.2 is the best MFT for BIF. The EM5.2 (which I have) sucks at AF, IMO. You can get AF-S to work but it's not fast.

Marc
__________________
https://tear.com
marcsantacurz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 08:32   #7
vilbs
Registered User
 
vilbs's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tewkesbury
Posts: 136
Thanks everyone for your time responding. My current plan is now to hang on for a bit, save for a while and possibly go for the RX10 IV. It's an expensive hobby
vilbs is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 08:38   #8
Essex Tern
Registered User
 
Essex Tern's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Essex
Posts: 618
The G9 plus 100-400 PanaLeica lens are quite a good combo, and can get flight shots even in my hands - I have used G6, G7, plus 100-300mki, and G80/85 and the G9, plus PL 100-400, and the G9/100-400 is the first setup I actually feel confident is really getting there with a bif setup, albeit G85 was no slouch and some of the improvement must also be me with my technique improving

The G9 should be getting upgrades with focussing over time too, as Panasonic implement their AI side of things. The GH5 is likely only necessary if you are really heavily into video, the G9 having some features for stills the GH5 does not, the G9 still capable of shooting video of course, but being more of a stills camera than the GH5.

The setup isn’t tiny, but at the end of the day this is the compromise that suited me; a sensor of a pretty decent size and lens to suit. I carry the setup in a holster, cross shouldered so can leave myself hands free for bins. It is a full frame equivalent of a 200-800mm setup, with dual stabilisation, which is a bit of a miracle of modern day technology!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3D798DBA-AF3A-4B91-A58E-F36F3EE75081.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	157.5 KB
ID:	676437  Click image for larger version

Name:	2C915403-BA4E-4378-AF66-5BCDB1953066.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	155.9 KB
ID:	676438  Click image for larger version

Name:	593E009D-7307-4615-B27C-1B7C57AB138B.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	53.0 KB
ID:	676440  Click image for larger version

Name:	DE304ACD-C6D7-4FDE-8ED6-B3A94109D002.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	98.1 KB
ID:	676441  Click image for larger version

Name:	860BA274-BC35-4027-9B5A-3ADFA0C616BD.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	171.5 KB
ID:	676442  

__________________
Essex Tern \('')/
Britain & Essex life lists - latest additions & totals - BUBO link
The past, like the future, is indefinite and exists only as a spectrum of possibilities. Stephen Hawking.
Essex Tern is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2017 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 10:42   #9
HermitIbis
Registered User
 
HermitIbis's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilbs View Post
[...] the 2 things I have struggled with (hence this post) is the quality and (to a lesser extent) the digital button press zoom (rather than a quick twist of the lens). [...] It just needs to be able to take photos in slightly gloomy British woods :)
IQ-wise, for the "slightly gloomy woods", the Sony RX10iv should beat the Nikon V2, as it has the newer sensor. I may be wrong, but hasn't the Sony exactly the same button press zoom though? Perhaps one of the Sony users can say how fast this is, as compared to the V2 where you "twist the lens".

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcsantacurz View Post
Some also really like the Nikon 1 V3 + adapter + AF-P DX VR 70-300, which will make it about 700mm I think. You'll get the VR functionality on the Nikon 1 V3, but I don't think you can use AF-C.

If you want birds in flight, you need to pay attention to autofocus speed and tracking and will likely want a DSLR/mirrorless or something like RX10.
Thanks for mentioning the V3. Personally I think the V2 is better for birding, the CX 70-300 lens acquires focus at BIF faster than the V3 and keeps it. I have heard lots of praise of the AF-P DX VR 70-300 lens, but don't know it. The 300mm are a 810mm equivalent, not 700mm (crop factor 2.7). AF-C can be used, but only center spot.

The Nikon V2 + CX 70-300 is worth a look, if BIF matters to you. Buying used involves a risk, and the Sony RX10iv is certainly the better all-round camera.
HermitIbis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 18:48   #10
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 5,264
Arrow

Vilbs, your two struggles are going to be difficult to resolve within your budget .....

In a bridge camera type, your going to have that zoom out wait (I don't know for sure that this could be minimized with the Sony by some clever custom start up/ standby/ shut down settings - but it's worth investigating).

As others have said, Your options there seem to be:
* Nikon P1000 ...... massive reach and size ! Better on stationary targets.
* Sony RX-10 III ..... beautiful sensor and lens, but if you are going to photograph moving targets at all, then spend the extra for the superceding IV model.
* Sony RX-10 IV ..... vastly improved phase detect AF.
* Sony RX-10 V ...... possibly out next year ? Likely to be more expensive, but worth it anyway.

Apart from that, you might stick with your 7D and look for a good 2nd hand Canon 400 f5.6L lens ...... you'll sacrifice some reach, so will be cropping, but at least the weight will come down, and the quality go up.

I think any really good MFT solutions are going to be $$$

Another possibility is as HermitIbis has said the Nikon V2. Pair it with either the native CX 70-300 f5.6 lens, the AF-P 70-300 f6.3 via adapter, a 2nd hand PF 300 f4 via adapter, or a Tamron (or Sigma) 100-400 f5.6, also via adapter. (or even 2nd hand Canon 400 f5.6 L if a third party adapter exists?).

Being reduced to central focus point in AF-C is likely not a big drawback (that's what I tend to mostly use anyway on the D7200) , and you get decent fps. With a 300mm lens you are at 810mm eq, and with the 400 = 1080mm eq.

Perhaps this is your best middle way within a budget - it would certainly be heaps of fun and much quicker to use for moving targets /BIF. I don't think you can argue with the results HemitIbis gets

In the event you strike it rich, a Nikon D7200 + the new PF 500 f5.6 would make a pretty awesome walk around kit, but that lens is pricey !

Good luck ! :)




Chosun

Last edited by Chosun Juan : Saturday 6th October 2018 at 23:08.
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 19:46   #11
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 704
Hi Chosun,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
In a bridge camera type, your going to have that zoom out wait
Hm, what kind of effect is that exactly?

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 6th October 2018, 23:28   #12
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 5,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Hi Chosun,



Hm, what kind of effect is that exactly?

Regards,

Henning
Hi Henning, I think this applies to most bridges (I haven't followed every product release closely - I think one of the Fuji bridges used to be manual zoom but might not be current?).

2 cases - changing zoom length, and start up or restart after shutdown (I think the Sony has a variable standby time, but there is a maximum where it automatically shuts down). I have read that there is a memory mode which can be assigned whereby it returns to the last zoom length used before shut down, but this still takes a second or two (lots of variable timings floating around depending on mode and zoom speed selected).

As far as I know the lever, and ring, are not direct acting and just operate the power mechanism at the programed speed. Also AFAIK, this Sony always shuts down to the minimal physical length with barrel fully retracted and this corresponds to a focal length around ~50mm (wider has a slight extension, and telephoto side has the greatest extension) ..... I'm not sure if there is a custom setting that could be made without it doing this - ie. just goes to sleep where it is ..... ?

A small drawback compared to a DSLR, but the AF system is top notch, and the most superior bridge system as far as I know. The demonstrations are impressive.



Chosun

Last edited by Chosun Juan : Saturday 6th October 2018 at 23:30.
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Sunday 7th October 2018, 01:07   #13
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 704
Hi Chosun,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
2 cases - changing zoom length, and start up or restart after shutdown
Ah, I see.

With regard to the power-up delay, I've set up my FZ1000 to always return to the zoom length it had before shut-down.

From switching it on to full zoom length, it takes 2.0 s according to my timing.

Going through the entire zoom range, including digital zoom, with the rocker switch takes 3.4 s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
As far as I know the lever, and ring, are not direct acting and just operate the power mechanism at the programed speed.
On the FZ1000, the servo mechanism is capable of variable speeds, and use of the zoom rings is a fairly good approximation of a manual zoom ring. However, there's a maximum speed for the servo, and more importantly, you have to turn the zoom ring through such a large angle that you have to let go and re-grip it several times to go from end to end.

Still, I have to admit that when it comes to quick reaction, it's usually me who is the weak link in the chain, not the camera :-)

The two second delay on power-up is a minor disadvantage, but I think that in most cases, I can bring the FZ1000 into action quicker than my Sony DSLR with the big 50 - 500 mm Sigma zoom simply due to the latter's bulk and weight.

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 7th October 2018, 22:50   #14
HermitIbis
Registered User
 
HermitIbis's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Still, I have to admit that when it comes to quick reaction, it's usually me who is the weak link in the chain, not the camera :-)

The two second delay on power-up is a minor disadvantage, but I think that in most cases, I can bring the FZ1000 into action quicker than my Sony DSLR with the big 50 - 500 mm Sigma zoom simply due to the latter's bulk and weight.
Same here. The power-up delay wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I'd buy 5-6 batteries for a full day, never turn it off, and that's it. Shooting would be 95% at the long end anyway. The V2/V3 can zoom during shooting - Thomas Stirr once reported how he had the lens at 220mm, focus the V3 on a bird, and twisting the lens/zooming to 300mm during the action. It can be useful, yet most users probably don't miss that feature on the Sony.

What I've read about the autofocus system of the Sony is tempting, it gets shots of smaller birds where the V2 struggles. Eventually I'll try it out, when the price drops by 1k or so.

Last edited by HermitIbis : Sunday 7th October 2018 at 22:52.
HermitIbis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 8th October 2018, 00:06   #15
delia todd
Moderator but....... If I say the wrong thing put it down to Senior Moments
BF Supporter 2019
 
delia todd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 237,553
Goodness.... what cameras need 5-6 batteries a day? Is this common?

The only time I've ever used more than 1 battery in a day was when I had a Coopix 4500 and the weather was minus 20 or something.
__________________
In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed

2006 63, 2007 52, 2008 46, 2009 32, 2010 31, 2011 27 Total 81

Latest Patch tick: Magpie

The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing - Socrates
delia todd is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Monday 8th October 2018, 01:33   #16
coopershawk
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by delia todd View Post
Goodness.... what cameras need 5-6 batteries a day? Is this common?

The only time I've ever used more than 1 battery in a day was when I had a Coopix 4500 and the weather was minus 20 or something.
I think it largely depends on your shooting style and what you like to shoot. I only take pictures of perched birds, single shot at a time so 1 battery almost always lasts me the birding session. On really long days I can go through a battery. I usually bring 2 spare batteries just in case.

It's a different story if you're a burst shooter. The top modern cameras can shoot more than 20 frames a second for multiple seconds. With mirrorless cameras giving ~350 shots per battery thats about 17 or 18 1-second bursts. If you were in a spot trying to get pictures of swallows in flight I could see going through a battery in not too long of a time. Imagine going through all those photos afterwards though
coopershawk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 8th October 2018, 01:42   #17
delia todd
Moderator but....... If I say the wrong thing put it down to Senior Moments
BF Supporter 2019
 
delia todd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 237,553
Thanks coopershawk.

I've a Fuji finepix HS50 and do shoot in continuous (or burst I suppose) all the time. Though getting better at just taking 2 or 3 shots of some scenes. It is a bit time-consuming going through them all later.... but what the heck LOL

The only times I've had to change to a new battery is if it wasn't a freshly charged one at the beginning.

The reason I was asking was... looking at some reviews and comments on other cameras I'm considering, someone said they needed a new battery after 4 or 5 shots????!
__________________
In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed

2006 63, 2007 52, 2008 46, 2009 32, 2010 31, 2011 27 Total 81

Latest Patch tick: Magpie

The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing - Socrates
delia todd is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Monday 8th October 2018, 14:21   #18
Zackiedawg
Registered User
 
Zackiedawg's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA
Posts: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by coopershawk View Post
It's a different story if you're a burst shooter. The top modern cameras can shoot more than 20 frames a second for multiple seconds. With mirrorless cameras giving ~350 shots per battery thats about 17 or 18 1-second bursts. If you were in a spot trying to get pictures of swallows in flight I could see going through a battery in not too long of a time. Imagine going through all those photos afterwards though
Fortunately mirrorless cameras work a little differently when it comes to burst shooting. The estimate of shot life on batteries uses a standard developed by CIPA that involves a complex method - take a shot, stop, review, take shot, mix in flash every 3rd or 4th shot, and so on. It's a test that is supposed to replicate the 'typical' user - but as many already know with DSLRs, a CIPA rating of 900 shots on a battery in real world conditions could mean you see only 400, or you could see 2,000. It all depends on what you're shooting. DSLRs, unless used in live view mode, are only creating a real draw on the battery when focusing or shooting...so battery life is more tied to number of shots taken.
Mirrorless cameras are more tied to the time that they're on, and powering the EVF or LCD screen. So battery life can be read in 'hours' and 'minutes' of on-time, regardless of number of shots taken. A person leaving the camera on, with the LCD or EVF powered and not set to sleep quickly, doing a lot of reviewing of images, and long time to set up shots, might have the camera powered on for 3 hours and only get 100 shots in that time - even if the camera is rated at 400. On the other hand, someone shooting a lot of burst shots, continuous and frequent shooting and not a lot of image review, might in that same 3 hours fire off 1,500 shots...on the same battery rated at 400.
Birding is one area where mirrorless batteries tend to stretch out their life better, because birding does often involve frequent shooting, burst shooting, and at least for some, little time to review your last image. There are ways to stretch out the battery life on any camera, but especially mirrorless ones - such as turning off wifi when not needed, setting the sleep mode to an aggressive time like 1 minute or less, turning off pre-focus modes, etc.
__________________
Justin Miller

Zackiedawg's Photography Gallery
Zackiedawg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 8th October 2018, 14:40   #19
coopershawk
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackiedawg View Post
Fortunately mirrorless cameras work a little differently when it comes to burst shooting. The estimate of shot life on batteries uses a standard developed by CIPA that involves a complex method - take a shot, stop, review, take shot, mix in flash every 3rd or 4th shot, and so on. It's a test that is supposed to replicate the 'typical' user - but as many already know with DSLRs, a CIPA rating of 900 shots on a battery in real world conditions could mean you see only 400, or you could see 2,000. It all depends on what you're shooting. DSLRs, unless used in live view mode, are only creating a real draw on the battery when focusing or shooting...so battery life is more tied to number of shots taken.
Mirrorless cameras are more tied to the time that they're on, and powering the EVF or LCD screen. So battery life can be read in 'hours' and 'minutes' of on-time, regardless of number of shots taken. A person leaving the camera on, with the LCD or EVF powered and not set to sleep quickly, doing a lot of reviewing of images, and long time to set up shots, might have the camera powered on for 3 hours and only get 100 shots in that time - even if the camera is rated at 400. On the other hand, someone shooting a lot of burst shots, continuous and frequent shooting and not a lot of image review, might in that same 3 hours fire off 1,500 shots...on the same battery rated at 400.
Birding is one area where mirrorless batteries tend to stretch out their life better, because birding does often involve frequent shooting, burst shooting, and at least for some, little time to review your last image. There are ways to stretch out the battery life on any camera, but especially mirrorless ones - such as turning off wifi when not needed, setting the sleep mode to an aggressive time like 1 minute or less, turning off pre-focus modes, etc.
Thank you for all the information Justin! Not much for me to say except that I learned something :) I think I might give burst a shot, could increase the number of keepers I get...
coopershawk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 8th October 2018, 15:06   #20
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 5,264
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackiedawg View Post
..... There are ways to stretch out the battery life on any camera, but especially mirrorless ones - such as turning off wifi when not needed, setting the sleep mode to an aggressive time like 1 minute or less, turning off pre-focus modes, etc.
That's true, but I've read that others set the sleep mode to the max time possible to avoid the time consuming sleep/ shut down and wake/ start up and zoom fully out sequence when you're out of action. It's sod's law that whenever the camera is out of action like that - you'll come across something awesome to shoot, and by the time you're back on deck and ready it's far away or gone ! Very annoying when the camera shuts down just when a Wedge-tailed Eagle starts circling right above your head, and by the time the camera's ready again it's a dot a K up in the sky .......

When I had a rudimentary bridge long ago, I'd let it get nearly to the sleep time limit, and then focus on a leaf or something at about the distance I expected to see birds, and that would buy me another period of time, wait till near the limit again, and repeat.

That annoying out of action time (and difficulty focusing on BIF) is what steered me to a DSLR eventually. The Sony RX-10 IV takes care of the BIF well, but you still have to avoid the shut down. I'd be inclined to take a spare battery (or two) and pretty much have it ready most of the time.

There's probably some good tips and battery life data in the dedicated thread

The other thing to mention for others is that you can set the burst rate speed - there's no need to always go full whack @24fps, you can also set the AF to a medium speed @10fps, and even slower too -- @3fps I think.




Chosun
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Monday 8th October 2018, 17:02   #21
Zackiedawg
Registered User
 
Zackiedawg's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA
Posts: 970
Quite true Juan - there's always consideration of the particular camera and lens being used as to how fast it can wake from sleep, or from off. When setting a sleep mode, that's certainly something to decide where best to compromise.
My particular mirrorless camera wakes pretty quickly from sleep - under 1 second - and my typical birding lens is a 100-400mm that's a manual zoom, so I don't have to worry about the lens contracting and having to go back out. With the RX10 series, that's something that needs to be considered since that will add a second or so to the total time to be ready to shoot. Most mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras will likely be in the range of 1/2 second to 1 1/2 seconds to be ready to shoot from sleep mode. And I too occasionally use shortcut methods to 'wake' my camera - even with DSLRs I do this - when I first spot a bird that I think might be interesting, before the camera has even been pulled up to my eye, I half-press the shutter to start waking it - by the time I pull it up to my eye, the camera is awake and ready because of the 1/2 second to 1 second that it takes to bring up the camera and get it on target. Generally this works well for mirrorless cameras. Bridge cameras usually are a bit slower, mostly due to the retracting lens.

With my A6300, I rarely use more than one battery in a day's shoot...though I carry two extra spares just in case. In the winter, when Florida is really hopping with migration and wintering birds, my busiest days might involve 5-6 hours of shooting, and 2,000+ frames...if things are really spectacular. One battery typically takes me to 1,200 to 1,500 frames...so on those rare busy days I'll get into the second battery. I don't think I've ever needed the 3rd - but it makes me feel better to know it's there. My camera's official CIPA rating is 450...so I easily exceed that. I typically shoot in the 8fps burst mode and only use continuous frame rates when shooting BIF...for non-flying birds, I tend to keep my camera in 3fps continuous mode, and only shoot a few shots. Birds in Flight, I may shoot anywhere from 5-30 shots in a sequence - I'm not one for holding down the shutter and just firing away - I tend to do shorter bursts of 5-10 at a time, release, reacquire, and then another short burst. 8fps is more than enough for my needs with birds - I have played with faster bursts, but find they don't do any better for hit rate, rarely give me any more chance of capturing just the right position, and require me to sort through far too many photos later!
__________________
Justin Miller

Zackiedawg's Photography Gallery
Zackiedawg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th October 2018, 07:40   #22
HermitIbis
Registered User
 
HermitIbis's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by delia todd View Post
Goodness.... what cameras need 5-6 batteries a day? Is this common?
As Zackiedawg has explained, mirrorless cameras "are more tied to the time that they're on, and powering the EVF or LCD screen." I use only the EVF, as the screen consumes power. Nevertheless my Nikon V2 needs a new battery every 3.5 hours, my V3 consumes a bit more, and the J5 is worst: 2.5 hours. For a short walk one battery is often enough. In January 2017 I was laying on the river shore, shooting a water rail feeding 7m away in perfect light, when the power ran out and I had no spare. "Never again", I said to myself.

I suspect most modern cameras have a decent mileage. With a fully charged, non-defective battery, CIPA rated 400 shots or so, I'd not be worried about horror stories ("new battery after 4 or 5 shots"). For a full birding day, 11 hrs in October, any camera must be fine with 5-6 batteries, even my J5. On a nice April day, using a V2 for swallow BIF, I can take up to 10,000 shots. [Pics with a blue sky is not a worry, btw. Quickly deleted. ]
HermitIbis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th October 2018, 07:58   #23
Hauksen
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 704
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by HermitIbis View Post
As Zackiedawg has explained, mirrorless cameras "are more tied to the time that they're on, and powering the EVF or LCD screen."
I'd include bridge cameras in this explanation, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HermitIbis View Post
[Pics with a blue sky is not a worry, btw. Quickly deleted. ]
True, but I'm more concerned about pictures with the bird well in the frame and almost, but not really sharp. I'm sure it would be possible to write a program to highlight sharp areas in a picture (basically, the same algorithm that my FZ1000 uses to indicate sharp areas when using manual focus), but I've never seen that actually implemented in post-processing software.

For me, it would be a great time saver to be able to sort (and cull) bird pictures by sharpness from the thumbnail only.

Regards,

Henning
__________________
3D Printable Objects for Bird Watching: https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/bird-watching/things
Hauksen is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th October 2018, 09:56   #24
HermitIbis
Registered User
 
HermitIbis's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
[...] I'm more concerned about pictures with the bird well in the frame and almost, but not really sharp. I'm sure it would be possible to write a program to highlight sharp areas in a picture (basically, the same algorithm that my FZ1000 uses to indicate sharp areas when using manual focus), but I've never seen that actually implemented in post-processing software.

For me, it would be a great time saver to be able to sort (and cull) bird pictures by sharpness from the thumbnail only.
Supported! Should be urgently implemented into IrfanView. - Lately I met someone with a Nex-7, and he showed me how the focus peaking in MF works. Impressive, it's a pity that Nikon1 cameras don't have the feature.
HermitIbis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 10th October 2018, 10:16   #25
delia todd
Moderator but....... If I say the wrong thing put it down to Senior Moments
BF Supporter 2019
 
delia todd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 237,553
Thanks HI & Henning.... that's a relief, though I struggle with the logistics of trying to recharge 5-6 batteries overnight when on holiday and out photographing every day from dawn to dusk LOL!!

Are bridge cameras mirrrorless'?
__________________
In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed

2006 63, 2007 52, 2008 46, 2009 32, 2010 31, 2011 27 Total 81

Latest Patch tick: Magpie

The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing - Socrates
delia todd is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Canon 600m non is foxydave Canon 3 Monday 22nd December 2014 22:21
Unknown small bird in a hilly area (alt ~600m/2000ft) in Romania catalin123 Bird Identification Q&A 21 Thursday 25th September 2014 08:44
Zen-Ray or Vortex - tighter quality control and build quality? raptorbfl Binoculars 19 Monday 22nd September 2014 06:52
help with quality Bill Came Canon 30 Monday 4th October 2010 11:54
D90 problem with 600m AF-S lens swainsons Nikon 6 Sunday 18th July 2010 17:31

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.19916010 seconds with 38 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 22:11.