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Lynx joins with Cornell

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Old Monday 2nd December 2019, 10:12   #176
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Is that because you have not made a Cornell account and linked the two? I cannot remember when I last got an email about this matter ...

Niels
No, accounts linked and agreed today migration (I want to see what it comes out like in eBird)...I'm talking about invitations to stuff like this "I hope you can join me at the San Diego Bird Festival "...or ID courses, all with US bias...at least filter their send list by region or country...
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Old Monday 2nd December 2019, 12:17   #177
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No, accounts linked and agreed today migration (I want to see what it comes out like in eBird)...I'm talking about invitations to stuff like this "I hope you can join me at the San Diego Bird Festival "...or ID courses, all with US bias...at least filter their send list by region or country...
Are you really surprised?

This was always the way it was going to go......................
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Old Monday 2nd December 2019, 12:27   #178
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I have amalgamated my eBird and HBW accounts without a hitch - not getting any unwanted emails or anything.

The eBird listing programme is doing weird things today though.

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Old Monday 2nd December 2019, 13:27   #179
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No, accounts linked and agreed today migration (I want to see what it comes out like in eBird)...I'm talking about invitations to stuff like this "I hope you can join me at the San Diego Bird Festival "...or ID courses, all with US bias...at least filter their send list by region or country...
Is there a grey box at the bottom of the email with these lines at the very bottom?:



Update your information, manage subscriptions, or unsubscribe from this eNewsletter

OR

Unsubscribe from all Cornell Lab eNewsletters
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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 09:22   #180
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Are you really surprised?

This was always the way it was going to go......................
meaning?
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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 09:23   #181
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I have amalgamated my eBird and HBW accounts without a hitch - not getting any unwanted emails or anything.

The eBird listing programme is doing weird things today though.

Steve
Server outage y-day at the university, should be fixed now...
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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 14:39   #182
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meaning?
Look at the highlighted words in the quote, it's clear what I mean.

There was also speculation as to what would happen to established nomenclature, Longpsur, Loon, Jaeger et al with the IOC already prefering American names as standard for many species which are not unique to the Americas.
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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 16:35   #183
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I agree it's going as expected i.e. a US focus on everything.
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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 16:51   #184
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I agree it's going as expected i.e. a US focus on everything.
You can complain about that or you can ask yourself what the alternative would have been: Lynx finding out they were losing too much money and just closing down the whole thing?

Secondly, when you are logged into ebird, you can set your preferences to show bird names in many other versions, including UK-English. You could quietly hope that a similar process could be instigated for whatever other parts of their site you would like to see?

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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 17:13   #185
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You can complain about that or you can ask yourself what the alternative would have been: Lynx finding out they were losing too much money and just closing down the whole thing?

Secondly, when you are logged into ebird, you can set your preferences to show bird names in many other versions, including UK-English. You could quietly hope that a similar process could be instigated for whatever other parts of their site you would like to see?

Niels
That isn't my complaint! It's the taxonomy I don't like and that has nothing to do with language preference - Clements moves very slowly on American taxa but far slower on non-American taxa. It seems to be very much deferring to regional authorities which is fine for Nth/Sth America or even Europe - in Asia that's effectively meaningless and that's where I mostly spend my time. I'd rather HBW or IOC being too aggressive in some cases but far more often being right than Clements with their approach. I want detailed sub-specific details which is what I used HBW for - I can decide the species taxonomy against that. eBird refuses to allow me to consider subspecies in most cases if they don't believe I can identify them - that is irrelevant I don't want to know what is visibly identifiable (and I don't agree with their details) but give full details irrespective.

The second part is as the recent complaint about advertising wtf should I have to opt out of emails about some discussion in San Diego or about id'ing US warblers. There are far more interesting discussion topics I'd be interested in and if they want to engage me know what I'm interested in. I don't see any indication that is going to be forthcoming.

Yes Lynx may not be able to make money out of their offering - so be it. I'm paying and if not enough are I can't do much about it but Cornell need to consider whether HBW subscribers like me will see enough value to pay them! If I lose the details I like from HBW Alive (and btw I don't use their taxonomy I prefer IOC but I use the sub-specific descriptions) then Cornell will lose that subscription value,

At this stage I'm not making a conclusion but my customer experience has not been improved!
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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 17:28   #186
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At this stage we cannot know for sure, but my expectation is that the HBW alive information including subspecies information will continue to be available. The resources that are mentioned together with it such as the BNA certainly have subspecies descriptions. Due to those resources being written with the Americas in mind they do not help you, but they would on a visit to this part of the world.

By the way, 3/4 of the changes at the last update to Clements were non-American.

Niels

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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 17:34   #187
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By the way, 3/4 of the changes at the last update to Clements were non-American.
Yes the recent update was an improvement on the past!

BTW the taxonomy difference even after the last update is approx 50 on my list. So even if you believe IOC is too aggressive with their splits - the difference is very significant. It's not about my list size - if I could see Clements justifications why they don't support them all then I'm ok (if I agree with the justification :-) it's my list!). Whilst I have no doubt some of those IOC splits will get lumped eventually there is also plenty of regional research which will add even more splits far outwaying the lumps once eventually making their way through research processes!
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Last edited by viator : Tuesday 3rd December 2019 at 17:44.
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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 17:47   #188
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Up to this point, I have not paid anything extra, I see the same HBW Alive as before, I have got access to BNA, of which I am happy, and I have got one or two emails advertising bird watching courses in California. Maybe in the future everything is Americanized and ruined, but I will start complaining only then.
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Old Tuesday 3rd December 2019, 19:07   #189
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It's true. Almost nothing has changed, the transition isn't even completed and everybody is already whining. Reading the bitter comments here, one could think that brits are being bullied by Cornell...
Personally, I'm sad that HBW Alive is going to disappear, on the other hand I have great hopes that Birds of the world will be equally as great. It's not like HBW Alive had all the right answers to everything, take "Orange-breasted Bush-robin" for example (Red-flanked Bluetail), but surely we're now advancing towards an improved single list of bird names. No one will stop you from using local names even after that. IOC and Clements are also already getting closer and closer to each other with each update (We're at 83,4% concordance currently)
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Old Wednesday 4th December 2019, 00:13   #190
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I am hopeful it will all work out, but sad to see my My Birding lists swapped into Clements taxonomy, but there we are. A shame the video archive is going to disappear, must be very frustrating for those with thousands of items, I am upset I am going to lose my 92.
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Old Wednesday 4th December 2019, 00:28   #191
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I am hopeful it will all work out, but sad to see my My Birding lists swapped into Clements taxonomy, but there we are. A shame the video archive is going to disappear, must be very frustrating for those with thousands of items, I am upset I am going to lose my 92.
is it? cannot remember reading that

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Old Wednesday 4th December 2019, 09:01   #192
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is it? cannot remember reading that

Niels
No plans to bin videos!

Will I still be able to upload videos?
Yes, IBC users who have uploaded video in the past (prior to October 1, 2019) will have permission to upload videos with eBird checklists. Look for more details on video uploads soon.

https://www.macaulaylibrary.org/ibc-faq/
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Old Wednesday 4th December 2019, 09:05   #193
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Yes the recent update was an improvement on the past!

BTW the taxonomy difference even after the last update is approx 50 on my list. So even if you believe IOC is too aggressive with their splits - the difference is very significant. It's not about my list size - if I could see Clements justifications why they don't support them all then I'm ok (if I agree with the justification :-) it's my list!). Whilst I have no doubt some of those IOC splits will get lumped eventually there is also plenty of regional research which will add even more splits far outwaying the lumps once eventually making their way through research processes!
As already mentioned, we'll likely see list authority homogenisation soon. That affects sci names not popular names which can be country specific.
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Old Wednesday 4th December 2019, 09:19   #194
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Look at the highlighted words in the quote, it's clear what I mean.

There was also speculation as to what would happen to established nomenclature, Longpsur, Loon, Jaeger et al with the IOC already preferring American names as standard for many species which are not unique to the Americas.
'But the emails?'

FAQs here:

https://birdsoftheworld.org/faqhbwinst

As already mentioned you can view vernacular names in whatever language you choose. I'd imagine that there will be an initial Americas first bias however given that information in BNA and parts of NBO is more comprehensive than HBW which is stated as the backbone of BOW, i.e. you get all the HBW content and then a lot more. The goal is obviously to then build those accounts...
I'd don't think you'll be forced to wear one of those binocular harnesses or use an Audubon Bird Call squeaker or refer to Calidris sandpipers as peeps however.
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Old Wednesday 4th December 2019, 20:42   #195
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From that FAQ:

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HBW Alive will become the backbone of Cornell Lab of Ornithology’s new Birds of the World in early 2020. The renowned Handbook of the Birds of the World (HBW Alive) content has transitioned from Lynx Edicions (Lynx) to the Cornell Lab of Ornithology (the Cornell Lab), where this exciting new platform is under development.
I'm really pleased to hear that, because HBW is an excellent resource and I refer to it frequently.

However the taxonomy used in HBW is significantly different from the taxonomy used at Cornell -- everybody reading this thread knows that already. So I'm curious where they are going to go with that. It's certainly an opportunity for them.
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Old Wednesday 4th December 2019, 21:31   #196
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From that FAQ:

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Originally Posted by Cornell
HBW Alive will become the backbone of Cornell Lab of Ornithology’s new Birds of the World in early 2020. The renowned Handbook of the Birds of the World (HBW Alive) content has transitioned from Lynx Edicions (Lynx) to the Cornell Lab of Ornithology (the Cornell Lab), where this exciting new platform is under development.
I'm really pleased to hear that, because HBW is an excellent resource and I refer to it frequently.

However the taxonomy used in HBW is significantly different from the taxonomy used at Cornell -- everybody reading this thread knows that already. So I'm curious where they are going to go with that. It's certainly an opportunity for them.
"under development" sounds very ominous . . . will the HBW text be preserved verbatim, or will it all be changed from centimetres into inches and grammes into ounces, and so on, just to suit American imperial tastes? That would be a ghastly retrograde step, but entirely typical (I've seen it happen elsewhere, many times).
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Old Wednesday 4th December 2019, 23:23   #197
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Good point about metric measurements, let's hope it stays as is but I am resigned to losing quite a few non-Clements splits. I heard back from Cornell and the video archive will be conserved, so I am not losing my 92 items, which is very pleasing. Be good to be able to upload videos to eBird too, not currently possible
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Old Thursday 5th December 2019, 22:24   #198
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"under development" sounds very ominous . . . will the HBW text be preserved verbatim, or will it all be changed from centimetres into inches and grammes into ounces, and so on, just to suit American imperial tastes? That would be a ghastly retrograde step, but entirely typical (I've seen it happen elsewhere, many times).
I presume you are joking now?

Are you seriously suggesting that a scientific endeavour will use imperial measurements?

Maybe read some of BNA first?

https://birdsna.org/Species-Account/...r/introduction

Specifically:

https://birdsna.org/Species-Account/...war/appearance

As for the text, of course it won't be frozen in time. In the same way as HBW Alive is dynamic....
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Old Friday 6th December 2019, 01:34   #199
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I presume you are joking now?

Are you seriously suggesting that a scientific endeavour will use imperial measurements?
I wish I could say I was, but - as mentioned - it would be far from the first time that I have seen US sites take information with originally metric data, remove it, and replace with imperial stuff.
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Old Friday 6th December 2019, 21:14   #200
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I wish I could say I was, but - as mentioned - it would be far from the first time that I have seen US sites take information with originally metric data, remove it, and replace with imperial stuff.
Scientific outputs in imperial? Please share examples?
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