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Shrike in Holland (1 Viewer)

I don't see Brown Shrike in this bird at all - pale upperparts, strong contrast between mantle and tail, weak mask, pale bill.

I don't think you can say anything about tail shape, because it appears to be regrowing the outer tail feathers (note how short the outermost is, and that they are different lengths on each side).

I'm not familiar enough to with the central Asian shrike species to comment on those, but if I saw a bird like this in HK it would grab my attention as something to investigate.
 
johnallcock said:
I don't see Brown Shrike in this bird at all - pale upperparts, strong contrast between mantle and tail, weak mask, pale bill.

I don't think you can say anything about tail shape, because it appears to be regrowing the outer tail feathers (note how short the outermost is, and that they are different lengths on each side).

I'm not familiar enough to with the central Asian shrike species to comment on those, but if I saw a bird like this in HK it would grab my attention as something to investigate.
Click to expand...

Thanks John, you’ll have seen more Brown Shrike than I’ve had hot dinners so you’re no doubt correct:t:
 
Richard Prior said:
Thanks John, you’ll have seen more Brown Shrike than I’ve had hot dinners so you’re no doubt correct:t:
Click to expand...

Still there is no clear conclusion about its identity. On of the observer is on my group, he believes Daurian or Turkestan, but cannot decide between both.
 
It’s a tricky bird for sure, the tail in both Daurian and Turkestan should normally be rufous I think, whereas this individual shows just a rufous rump and a brown tail ( another reason why I leaned towards Brown Shrike in fact!).
Must be a hybrid ;)
 
Richard Prior said:
It’s a tricky bird for sure, the tail in both Daurian and Turkestan should normally be rufous I think, whereas this individual shows just a rufous rump and a brown tail ( another reason why I leaned towards Brown Shrike in fact!).
Must be a hybrid ;)
Click to expand...

I've seen hybrids in UAE and Kenya and, indeed, it crossed my mind.

I hope we can reach a conclusion, finally...
 
Agree with John that this is not a Brown Shrike - it's too pale on the upperparts and it doesn't have that large-headed, short-winged and long-tailed structure. That short outertail feather is far too short too, and doesn't match the other side.

I would favour Turkestan over Daurian/Isabelline, but it's hardly a classic example. Broad white supercilium, white lores, black mask, cold grey-brown upperparts, rather whitish underparts with very faint barring and any buff wash confined to the flanks and largely pale bill point more to phoenicuroides in my opinion.

Difficult individuals like this are quite common in the UAE in late summer/autumn.
 
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johnallcock said:
No. they're not.
There is a trade in wild birds for consumption in China, but not in HK. Hunting birds is illegal here, and thankfully is rare.
Click to expand...

This hunting/poaching should be stopped, but many people who agree with that eat meat, fish or chicken, and this is even worse for biodiversity.

Amazonia and African forests are burning for meat production and for charcoal (exported and used in barbecues), not for shrike hunting...
 
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