James Jobling
Well-known member
Laurent, thanks for Rhinostrix Kaup, 1848. I have added it to the Key, where it will become the 30,035th header entry.
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Names lacking in the Key (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter l_raty
- Start date
l_raty
laurent raty
Tichistes Baldamus 1869 ?
Baldamus E. 1869. Kaliologische und oologishce Studien. I. Gruppirung der Arten der Familie der Schwalben, Hirundinidae, nach Nestbau und Eiern. J. Ornithol., 17: 403-408.
https://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/32902158 :
Of course, Cotyle Boie and Cheramoeca Cabanis, suggested to denote the third group, are genus-group names too.
Tichistes, on the other hand, does not seem to have been caught as a genus-group name by anyone after Baldamus wrote the above -- but I'm not at all clear on which base it might be denied this status. (The originally included nominal species are those listed in the first group: the "Maurerschwalben" or mason-swallows. Type presumably not fixed.)
Baldamus E. 1869. Kaliologische und oologishce Studien. I. Gruppirung der Arten der Familie der Schwalben, Hirundinidae, nach Nestbau und Eiern. J. Ornithol., 17: 403-408.
https://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/32902158 :
Antrochelidon Baldamus is listed as a genus-group name available from this work in nomenclators.
Of course, Cotyle Boie and Cheramoeca Cabanis, suggested to denote the third group, are genus-group names too.
Tichistes, on the other hand, does not seem to have been caught as a genus-group name by anyone after Baldamus wrote the above -- but I'm not at all clear on which base it might be denied this status. (The originally included nominal species are those listed in the first group: the "Maurerschwalben" or mason-swallows. Type presumably not fixed.)
James Jobling
Well-known member
Well found, Laurent. Tichistes Baldamus, 1869, is certainly worthy of an entry in the Key. For the purposes of the Key only I am treating Tichistes as a synonym of Delichon, with D. urbicum as the type.
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Mr Holme's (Pearl?) Kite; "G. Holmii"
I almost regret posting this, even before I've finished writing it, as it possibly will, or could, delete my dear Stockholm, the Capital of Sweden, from the HBW Alive Key all together ... but fair is fair, right should be right.
However, note that this name isn't truly "lacking in the Key", even if missing in the double-i-ending version, though I think (fear) it's time for some alteration alt. amendment; regarding the entry in today's Key [my blue]:
Sorry to say (as in being Swedish, living in Stockholm), I think we have to reconsider (or add a part on) this/the entry for holmi, simply as the OD of "G. [Gampsonyx] Holmii" BLACKWALL 1831 (here) clearly wasn't intended for Stockholm, but ..:
I would turn the explanation for this bird/name into (or expand it into, alt. add with the following part?):
holmii as in
• "G. [Gampsonyx] Holmii" BLACKWALL 1831
= the fairly well-known naturalist and Dr. (M.D./Physician) Edward Holme (1770–1847), Esq., of Manchester, President of the Natural History Society of Manchester, Fellow of the Linnean Society, Fellow of the Imperial Society of Naturalist in Moscow, Honourary member of the Royal Institution of Cornwall, etc., etc. ...
Born 17 February, 1770 at Kendal, Lancashire ... died in November 1847. For more details on Mr. Holme's Life, see his Obituary Notice (from May 24, 1848,) in; Proceedings of the Linnean Society of London 1, 1849 (covering; November 1838 – June 1848), pp. 373-376 (here alt. here). Also see here, or elsewhere. He's pretty easy to find.
If Sundevall (who did work in Stockholm), ever coined, or used, the name holmi (single ending-i), for (yet) another Kite (from/in Stockholm!?), is unknown to me (but I doubt it, as the Pearl Kite Gampsonyx swainsonii Vigors, 1825, is a South American Bird). I´m not aware of any holmi/i name/bird originally coined, or described, by Sundevall. To me it seems like he was (nothing but) fully aware of Blackwall's "Holmii" of 1831, which Bonaparte (apparently) wasn't in 1850 ... (when quoting it as " Gampsonyx holmi, Sundeval., ..."). Also see this text, by Bonaparte, from September 1850 (all in French).
However, please let me know; if, when and where Sundevall himself wrote about (or described) such a bird. I would love to have a "Stockholmian" Kite in my notes. Or any other bird, for that matter.
Also note that it's (in my mind) fairly unlikely that Sundevall would have used the version holmi/i, if intending it (or anything else) for the, at that point (in 1800's), fairly old-school, Latin Holmia (Stockholm). I would think he'd preferred to use Stockholmiensis or Stockholmiæ (like he did in 1866, here). Alas, which (I think) he never did, on any bird.
Either way; enjoy!
Björn
PS. "G. [Gampsonyx] Holmii" BLACKWALL 1831, is not found (at least not by me) in the Richmond Index.
-
I almost regret posting this, even before I've finished writing it, as it possibly will, or could, delete my dear Stockholm, the Capital of Sweden, from the HBW Alive Key all together ... but fair is fair, right should be right.
However, note that this name isn't truly "lacking in the Key", even if missing in the double-i-ending version, though I think (fear) it's time for some alteration alt. amendment; regarding the entry in today's Key [my blue]:
The quoted part in today's Key's explanation, above, origins in Bonaparte's Conspectus generum avium (1850), here.
Sorry to say (as in being Swedish, living in Stockholm), I think we have to reconsider (or add a part on) this/the entry for holmi, simply as the OD of "G. [Gampsonyx] Holmii" BLACKWALL 1831 (here) clearly wasn't intended for Stockholm, but ..:
I would turn the explanation for this bird/name into (or expand it into, alt. add with the following part?):
holmii as in
• "G. [Gampsonyx] Holmii" BLACKWALL 1831
= the fairly well-known naturalist and Dr. (M.D./Physician) Edward Holme (1770–1847), Esq., of Manchester, President of the Natural History Society of Manchester, Fellow of the Linnean Society, Fellow of the Imperial Society of Naturalist in Moscow, Honourary member of the Royal Institution of Cornwall, etc., etc. ...
Born 17 February, 1770 at Kendal, Lancashire ... died in November 1847. For more details on Mr. Holme's Life, see his Obituary Notice (from May 24, 1848,) in; Proceedings of the Linnean Society of London 1, 1849 (covering; November 1838 – June 1848), pp. 373-376 (here alt. here). Also see here, or elsewhere. He's pretty easy to find.
If Sundevall (who did work in Stockholm), ever coined, or used, the name holmi (single ending-i), for (yet) another Kite (from/in Stockholm!?), is unknown to me (but I doubt it, as the Pearl Kite Gampsonyx swainsonii Vigors, 1825, is a South American Bird). I´m not aware of any holmi/i name/bird originally coined, or described, by Sundevall. To me it seems like he was (nothing but) fully aware of Blackwall's "Holmii" of 1831, which Bonaparte (apparently) wasn't in 1850 ... (when quoting it as " Gampsonyx holmi, Sundeval., ..."). Also see this text, by Bonaparte, from September 1850 (all in French).
However, please let me know; if, when and where Sundevall himself wrote about (or described) such a bird. I would love to have a "Stockholmian" Kite in my notes. Or any other bird, for that matter.
Also note that it's (in my mind) fairly unlikely that Sundevall would have used the version holmi/i, if intending it (or anything else) for the, at that point (in 1800's), fairly old-school, Latin Holmia (Stockholm). I would think he'd preferred to use Stockholmiensis or Stockholmiæ (like he did in 1866, here). Alas, which (I think) he never did, on any bird.
Either way; enjoy!
Björn
PS. "G. [Gampsonyx] Holmii" BLACKWALL 1831, is not found (at least not by me) in the Richmond Index.
-
Last edited:
janvanderbrugge
Well-known member
I due Foschi italiani (not an opera . . .)
Quote Taphrophilus, May 2017
Without having seen the OD it is to find in...
Quote:
Foschi, F. Una nuova sottospecie de Cappellaccia "Galerida cristata herae laciniae". Gli Uccelli d'Italia, 3: 192-193. See p. 193.
(I assume Ferrante Foschi and not Ugo Foscolo Foschi was the author??)
One more for the Key! (reciting Calalp)
In my alphabetical files of Taxonomy I discovered a name Pica pica foschii Trischitta, 1962, without reference; the name is not listed in Richmond Index nor is foschii contained in the HBW Key. Eventually I found an article "The taxonomic validity of Pica pica foschii Trischitta, 1962" in the Italian journal Avocetta, no.19, 1995, p.164, authors Carlo Violani, Bruno Zava and Fausto Barbagli.
To make things somewhat easier for you readers I quote the parts which offer information on the identity of this taxon and on the dedication.
The article opens:
"In 1962, the Sicilian naturalist Antonino Trischitta described a new subspecies of Magpie and named it Pica pica foschii in honour of his friend Ferrante Foschi from Forlì, who collected the types in the Salento Peninsula, Apulia, Southern Italy.
[. . .]
Referring to this form in a biographical profile of A.Trischitta, Di Palma et al. (1989) erroneously gave it as Pica pica salentina, practically introducing a synonym.
The "vinaceous" tinge mentioned by Trischitta (1962) is not particularly obvious, but this colour is more evident in some Salento specimens of more recent preparation. One of the kinds of soil occurring in the type locality is related to the 'Mediterranean terra rossa', a reddish ground rich in iron oxides; most likely the "vinaceous" colour is due to a natural soiling of the plumage in contact with the substratum.
[. . .]
Therefore, according to our data, the identification of Pica pica foschii Trischitta, 1962 (and, consequently, of its synonym Pica pica salentina Di Palma et al. 1989) with the ssp. Pica pica galliae Kleinschmidt, 1917 is justified.
The synonymous (geographical) term salentina can also be listed in the Key, but that's up to James, of course. Apparently Ugo Foscolo Foschi (from Martin's quote above) has no dedication, so far. The Museo Ornitologico Ferrante Foschi is situated in Forlì. F.Foschi, 'avvocato ed appassionato ornitologo', was born in 1915 and started collecting specimens in 1934, as a pupil of Professor Pietro Zangheri of Forlì. If Antonino Trischitta of the 1962 publication is the same as the Trischitta of "Altre nuove forme di Uccelli Italiani", Bagheria Arti Grafiche "Solunto", 1939, is unknown to me.
Irrelevant here, but to prevent barbarous speaking by "chi non lo sa", I can add that the ch in Italian is pronounced k, so: Foschi - fòskee, Trischitta - triskítta.
Salute, alla prossima sessione!
Jan van der Brugge
Quote Taphrophilus, May 2017
Without having seen the OD it is to find in...
Quote:
Foschi, F. Una nuova sottospecie de Cappellaccia "Galerida cristata herae laciniae". Gli Uccelli d'Italia, 3: 192-193. See p. 193.
(I assume Ferrante Foschi and not Ugo Foscolo Foschi was the author??)
One more for the Key! (reciting Calalp)
In my alphabetical files of Taxonomy I discovered a name Pica pica foschii Trischitta, 1962, without reference; the name is not listed in Richmond Index nor is foschii contained in the HBW Key. Eventually I found an article "The taxonomic validity of Pica pica foschii Trischitta, 1962" in the Italian journal Avocetta, no.19, 1995, p.164, authors Carlo Violani, Bruno Zava and Fausto Barbagli.
To make things somewhat easier for you readers I quote the parts which offer information on the identity of this taxon and on the dedication.
The article opens:
"In 1962, the Sicilian naturalist Antonino Trischitta described a new subspecies of Magpie and named it Pica pica foschii in honour of his friend Ferrante Foschi from Forlì, who collected the types in the Salento Peninsula, Apulia, Southern Italy.
[. . .]
Referring to this form in a biographical profile of A.Trischitta, Di Palma et al. (1989) erroneously gave it as Pica pica salentina, practically introducing a synonym.
The "vinaceous" tinge mentioned by Trischitta (1962) is not particularly obvious, but this colour is more evident in some Salento specimens of more recent preparation. One of the kinds of soil occurring in the type locality is related to the 'Mediterranean terra rossa', a reddish ground rich in iron oxides; most likely the "vinaceous" colour is due to a natural soiling of the plumage in contact with the substratum.
[. . .]
Therefore, according to our data, the identification of Pica pica foschii Trischitta, 1962 (and, consequently, of its synonym Pica pica salentina Di Palma et al. 1989) with the ssp. Pica pica galliae Kleinschmidt, 1917 is justified.
The synonymous (geographical) term salentina can also be listed in the Key, but that's up to James, of course. Apparently Ugo Foscolo Foschi (from Martin's quote above) has no dedication, so far. The Museo Ornitologico Ferrante Foschi is situated in Forlì. F.Foschi, 'avvocato ed appassionato ornitologo', was born in 1915 and started collecting specimens in 1934, as a pupil of Professor Pietro Zangheri of Forlì. If Antonino Trischitta of the 1962 publication is the same as the Trischitta of "Altre nuove forme di Uccelli Italiani", Bagheria Arti Grafiche "Solunto", 1939, is unknown to me.
Irrelevant here, but to prevent barbarous speaking by "chi non lo sa", I can add that the ch in Italian is pronounced k, so: Foschi - fòskee, Trischitta - triskítta.
Salute, alla prossima sessione!
Jan van der Brugge
l_raty
laurent raty
James Jobling
Well-known member
Thanks Jan, for salentina and foschii. I am afraid to report that these may be the last two new entries in the Key for the time being. I hope that some form of the Key will be available in the new Cornell project, planned to come on-line next week. Agreement has yet to be reached, but fingers crossed!
Last edited:
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
• "Pica pica foschii Trischitta, 1962"
... probably this guy:
... probably this guy:
/B
mb1848
Well-known member
Mr. Jobling: I hope Cornell Corp makes the right decision. If you see Doc Fitzgerald please tell him that as for me that whole Ivory-billed matter is water under the bridge. Darn I was just thinking of asking Bird Forum how to get one of those "scholarships" to the Key behind a paywall!!!
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
What will happen to the Key if an agreement can't be reached?
No more Key? Anywhere?
Getting a bit worried ...
Björn
Taphrospilus
Well-known member
Hmmm, will not necessarily help to improve the key entries.Not really good news.
Last edited:
janvanderbrugge
Well-known member
Quote James:
Thanks Jan, for salentina and foschii. I am afraid to report that these may be the last two new entries in the Key for the time being. I hope that some form of the Key will be available in the new Cornell project, planned to come on-line next week. Agreement has yet to be reached, but fingers crossed!
Last edited by James Jobling : Yesterday at 23:48.
Hello James,
Of course I am not in a position to offer substantial comfort, but I want to express some support. After all, you wrote a personal dedication to me, long ago now, in my copy of your first book, at your visit with two other English birders to this Dutch region, with the nest-building Penduline Tit as a highlight, as you remember. There are still breeding cases of the species in Holland, but quite rare. I keep the memories and that first nomenclature book of yours as valuable souvenirs!
My remark about salentina is overruled: I saw that the term was listed in the Key already, A.Trischitta having described a subspecies salentina of the Little Owl in his 1939 publication "Nuove forme etc."
As for the future of the Key: I hope that this tremendous and highly admirable bunch of efforts will stay free from any damaging and that the activity of any outlandish intruder will be restricted to adapting the colours into colors . . . Whatever may happen, it won't lower down the merits of such a standard work. Let us try to keep up, or else raise, the good spirit!
Kind regards, hartelijke groeten,
Jan van der Brugge
Thanks Jan, for salentina and foschii. I am afraid to report that these may be the last two new entries in the Key for the time being. I hope that some form of the Key will be available in the new Cornell project, planned to come on-line next week. Agreement has yet to be reached, but fingers crossed!
Last edited by James Jobling : Yesterday at 23:48.
Hello James,
Of course I am not in a position to offer substantial comfort, but I want to express some support. After all, you wrote a personal dedication to me, long ago now, in my copy of your first book, at your visit with two other English birders to this Dutch region, with the nest-building Penduline Tit as a highlight, as you remember. There are still breeding cases of the species in Holland, but quite rare. I keep the memories and that first nomenclature book of yours as valuable souvenirs!
My remark about salentina is overruled: I saw that the term was listed in the Key already, A.Trischitta having described a subspecies salentina of the Little Owl in his 1939 publication "Nuove forme etc."
As for the future of the Key: I hope that this tremendous and highly admirable bunch of efforts will stay free from any damaging and that the activity of any outlandish intruder will be restricted to adapting the colours into colors . . . Whatever may happen, it won't lower down the merits of such a standard work. Let us try to keep up, or else raise, the good spirit!
Kind regards, hartelijke groeten,
Jan van der Brugge
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Jan, Trischitta's "Athene noctua salentina", 1939, was earlier dealt with/mentioned (back in 2016), in thread Antonino P. Trischitta (1892-1966), #7 (here)
/B
l_raty
laurent raty
escondidus
Cf. https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3999855&postcount=15
Cf. https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3999855&postcount=15
(= absconditus in proper Latin.)
janvanderbrugge
Well-known member
Names lacking in the Key: never-ending story?
Here is another fragment from my files, which contains an obscure name: posneri. I have no clue where I found this name, must be quite long ago; it is not in the Key, not in Thesaurus, not in Richmond Index, not in Check-list of Birds of the World. And, what's really bad, no author known. Anyway, the dedicatee is not the judge or the singer of that same name, which has been dominating the google pages for some time. I thought it could be a mistake for poszneri or perhaps for collector William Foster (mentioned by Chubb for Paraguay), but no results.
As it is apparently unique, I do not feel like erasing it rightaway . . .
Cheers, Jan van der Brugge
Sporophila plumbeiceps (Salvadori, 1895) = Sporophila ruficollis
Sporophila plumbeiceps posneri = Sporophila ruficollis
Sporophila ruficollis Cabanis, 1851 [M.H.Cab.1 p.150, note 1.2]
Sp[orophila] ruficollis Cabanis, Museum Heineanum, Th.I, (1850), 1851, 150 (ftnote). Sig. dated Juni 1851. Ex “Fringilla ruficollis Licht. In Mus.Berol.” Type locality: Montevideo. Type: Berlin Mus. ♂ im.
[in some views (Dinos) a colour phase of Sporophila minuta]
Sporophila ruficollis (Fringilla ruficollis Lichtenstein, Gyrinorhynchus ruficollis, S.plumbeiceps, S.plumbeiceps posneri, Spermophila plumbeiceps Salvadori)
(Dark-throated Seedeater / Corbatita castaña)
(Zwartkeeldikbekje / Schwarzkehlpfäffchen / Sporophila à gorge sombre)
[Roodhals Dikbek Vink. Gyrinorhynchus ruficollis, Licht. (List Artis p.54)]
(vern. Capuchino garganta café, Corbatita rojiza [Argentina]. Espiguero Gargantioscura [Peru]. Caboclinho-paraguai [Brasil].)
Here is another fragment from my files, which contains an obscure name: posneri. I have no clue where I found this name, must be quite long ago; it is not in the Key, not in Thesaurus, not in Richmond Index, not in Check-list of Birds of the World. And, what's really bad, no author known. Anyway, the dedicatee is not the judge or the singer of that same name, which has been dominating the google pages for some time. I thought it could be a mistake for poszneri or perhaps for collector William Foster (mentioned by Chubb for Paraguay), but no results.
As it is apparently unique, I do not feel like erasing it rightaway . . .
Cheers, Jan van der Brugge
Sporophila plumbeiceps (Salvadori, 1895) = Sporophila ruficollis
Sporophila plumbeiceps posneri = Sporophila ruficollis
Sporophila ruficollis Cabanis, 1851 [M.H.Cab.1 p.150, note 1.2]
Sp[orophila] ruficollis Cabanis, Museum Heineanum, Th.I, (1850), 1851, 150 (ftnote). Sig. dated Juni 1851. Ex “Fringilla ruficollis Licht. In Mus.Berol.” Type locality: Montevideo. Type: Berlin Mus. ♂ im.
[in some views (Dinos) a colour phase of Sporophila minuta]
Sporophila ruficollis (Fringilla ruficollis Lichtenstein, Gyrinorhynchus ruficollis, S.plumbeiceps, S.plumbeiceps posneri, Spermophila plumbeiceps Salvadori)
(Dark-throated Seedeater / Corbatita castaña)
(Zwartkeeldikbekje / Schwarzkehlpfäffchen / Sporophila à gorge sombre)
[Roodhals Dikbek Vink. Gyrinorhynchus ruficollis, Licht. (List Artis p.54)]
(vern. Capuchino garganta café, Corbatita rojiza [Argentina]. Espiguero Gargantioscura [Peru]. Caboclinho-paraguai [Brasil].)
Oh its available alright
Sporophila plumbeiceps posneri Bertoni, 1930 Rev. Soc. Cient. Parag., 2, p. 256
Its status as "overlooked" is discussed here.
The dedicatee is in the title:
Bertoni A.W. 1930. Sobre ornitología del Chaco Paraguayo. Aves colectadas por Félix Posner en la Colonia “Monte Sociedad”, hoy Benjamin Aceval (Villa Hayes). Revista de la Sociedad Científica del Paraguay 2: 241–258.
here
Felix Posner (1873-?)
Hungarian, born in 1873, came to Paraguay in 1906 and remained for seventeen years collecting birds and other animals. He toured Villarrica, Villa Hayes, Benjamín Aceval, and in several places in the Paraguayan Chaco and prepared animals for the Botanical Garden. From 1915 a collection consisting of 350 specimens of 141 species was put together, which were acquired on April 19, 1928 by Dr. Andrés Barbero.
If he returned to Hungary in 1923 I can not say.
P
Sporophila plumbeiceps posneri Bertoni, 1930 Rev. Soc. Cient. Parag., 2, p. 256
Its status as "overlooked" is discussed here.
The dedicatee is in the title:
Bertoni A.W. 1930. Sobre ornitología del Chaco Paraguayo. Aves colectadas por Félix Posner en la Colonia “Monte Sociedad”, hoy Benjamin Aceval (Villa Hayes). Revista de la Sociedad Científica del Paraguay 2: 241–258.
here
Felix Posner (1873-?)
Hungarian, born in 1873, came to Paraguay in 1906 and remained for seventeen years collecting birds and other animals. He toured Villarrica, Villa Hayes, Benjamín Aceval, and in several places in the Paraguayan Chaco and prepared animals for the Botanical Garden. From 1915 a collection consisting of 350 specimens of 141 species was put together, which were acquired on April 19, 1928 by Dr. Andrés Barbero.
If he returned to Hungary in 1923 I can not say.
P
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
A bit more info on Félix Posner (born 1873), is found in El Hornero 5 (No.3), p.454, (1934), here, all in Spanish (and as such beyond my understanding).
Born 14 July 1873, in Hungary (Place/town seems unknown), studied in Budapest ... and onwards.
Another trace of the same Félix Posner [somewhat easier to read (at least the translated part)]:
[Note; again written with an (acute) accent, like in Paul's quoted Title of Bertoni's paper/OD (unseen by me)]
Hopefully of some use/help?
Björn
---
Born 14 July 1873, in Hungary (Place/town seems unknown), studied in Budapest ... and onwards.
Another trace of the same Félix Posner [somewhat easier to read (at least the translated part)
]:[Note; again written with an (acute) accent, like in Paul's quoted Title of Bertoni's paper/OD (unseen by me)]
Hopefully of some use/help?
Björn
---
Last edited:
l_raty
laurent raty
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Just to be accurate (and somewhat pernickety) ...
/B
= here, but only in parts [from the Global Owl Project (i.e. the OD of "Asio stygius (Wagl.) var barberoi n. v."), thus, of course, not including the OD of the Seedeater ssp. "posneri" itself], though it shows the full title of the Paper (where his name is written in Capital letters, and no accent) ...
/B
janvanderbrugge
Well-known member
Estimado Pablo, Byurno,
Tantas gracias por ayudarme, lo aprecio muchísimo! Right now before reading your answers, I tried to get Laubmann's Vögel von Paraguay on the screen, because I remembered I had borrowed that work in my more youthful years (from a university library) and had taken notes, but "Bioheritage" did not cooperate this time. . . You are better sources now!
Quedaos bien, stay well,
Jan van der Brugge
Tantas gracias por ayudarme, lo aprecio muchísimo! Right now before reading your answers, I tried to get Laubmann's Vögel von Paraguay on the screen, because I remembered I had borrowed that work in my more youthful years (from a university library) and had taken notes, but "Bioheritage" did not cooperate this time. . . You are better sources now!
Quedaos bien, stay well,
Jan van der Brugge
