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When a new Leica binocular?

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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 02:28   #76
james holdsworth
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Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
James:

I am thinking Alberto gave the FL the nod for a "lack of" the rolling ball,
and that is a good thing I am told for some afflicted.

Jerry
I know that the FL shows no rolling ball but it has plenty of pincushion, hardly class-leading........that was my point.
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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 02:33   #77
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Originally Posted by AlbertoJ View Post
Iīm limiting my search to a low numbers of brands because there are only 4 alpha binoculars brands: Leica Ultravid, Zeiss FL, Swarovski (SV, SLC HD) and Nikon EDG.
Betta binoculars brands are others like Kowa XD, Zeiss Conquest, Swarovski (CL, SLC), Nikon HG, Minox HG APO, Pentax ED, ...

There arenīt any inexpensive porro with a transmission even near to any alpha binoculars. Nikon Prostar, Fujinon, Minox BP or Nikon SE are excellent and expensive binoculars.
You couldnīt mix porros and roofs in the same binocular.
I havenīt any problem with porros, but it not seems any alpha brands are going to make a porro binocular, except Nikon SE and EII.

Today optics in about F/4 focal lenght/objetive diameter relation is limited to have rolling ball effect or pincushion distortion.
You must choose one of them: rolling ball effect like Swarovision or pincushion distortion like Leica Ultravid, Zeiss FL, Swarovski SLC HD.
My personal choice is the second one.

Here is one for starters........Opticron Countryman 10x42 MC T, $250 -- trans [by Allbinos] of 90%, better than SV or EDG!!

There are many other examples out there.......

EDIT - a 30 + year old CZJ Jenoptem hits 90% as well. What's that, about a 100 dollar bin?

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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 05:08   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertoJ View Post
Iīm limiting my search to a low numbers of brands because there are only 4 alpha binoculars brands: Leica Ultravid, Zeiss FL, Swarovski (SV, SLC HD) and Nikon EDG.
Betta binoculars brands are others like Kowa XD, Zeiss Conquest, Swarovski (CL, SLC), Nikon HG, Minox HG APO, Pentax ED, ...

There arenīt any inexpensive porro with a transmission even near to any alpha binoculars. Nikon Prostar, Fujinon, Minox BP or Nikon SE are excellent and expensive binoculars.
You couldnīt mix porros and roofs in the same binocular.
I havenīt any problem with porros, but it not seems any alpha brands are going to make a porro binocular, except Nikon SE and EII.

Today optics in about F/4 focal lenght/objetive diameter relation is limited to have rolling ball effect or pincushion distortion.
You must choose one of them: rolling ball effect like Swarovision or pincushion distortion like Leica Ultravid, Zeiss FL, Swarovski SLC HD.
My personal choice is the second one.
You mentioned the Nikon SE and Nikon EDG. To me, these two models achieve the best balance btwn pincushion and "rolling ball". Panning is smooth with the SEs. The 10x42 EDG also pans smoothly. To Nikon's credit, it was able to achieve these results with both models while also giving them sharp edges, but not going to extreme like the HG or SV EL.

According to Allbinos, the Swift 820 Audubon has 90% light transmission, nearly on par with the 8x32 Leica Ultravid @ 91.7%. At $329, it's relatively inexpensive compared to a Leica.

They also rate the Leupold Mesa 10x50 @ 90%, and it costs $200. So it's not hard to make even cheap porros with high light transmission, but with roofs, you need dielectric coatings and 64 layers of AR coatings to achieve the same or better results.

Decades earlier, porros achieved some of the same benchmarks that roofs have finally accomplished today at much greater expense. Porros also had ED glass before ED glass was cool.

The saving grace is that roof technology eventually filters down to second tier and mid-priced roofs, so others who can't afford the top tier can also benefit from the innovations.

The greatest opportunity for buyers seeking quality optics will be at the second tier, which I think will grow substantially over the next 5 years.

As alpha prices break through the thermosphere into exosphere, the space program dropouts and wannabes will gravitate to the second tier where they can get 90%+ the performance for half the price.

Brock
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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 18:13   #79
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Decades earlier, porros achieved some of the same benchmarks that roofs have finally accomplished today at much greater expense. Porros also had ED glass before ED glass was cool. ....

Brock
Yes. That is true. A Porrro prism uses total internal reflection to flip the image and its almost abberation free. Roof prisms need very high tolerances in the angle of their roof part and also very complicated coatings to achieve the same thing. Imagine an alternative history where roof prism binoculars were popular first. Then imagine that a company, say Swarovski, has made a Porro prism binocular and is bringing them to the market. I challenge the forum members to write a two-paragraph advertisment piece for this "new" product and describe its merit over the old "roof" design! Please be honest and realistic in your writings.
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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 18:44   #80
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Imagine an alternative history where roof prism binoculars were popular first. Then imagine that a company, say Swarovski, has made a Porro prism binocular and is bringing them to the market. I challenge the forum members to write a two-paragraph advertisment piece for this "new" product and describe its merit over the old "roof" design! Please be honest and realistic in your writings.
OK, I'll bite...

The new Swarovski PV 7x42, 8.5x42, and 10x42 Porro Prism Binoculars.

New for 2013, Swarovski is now offering a new PORRO PRISM design that's sure to please. Imagine a view that's as sharp and bright and free of stray color as our SV series roof binoculars, in a package that's half the price! Although the new PV series are a little heavier and larger than our SVs, the user is rewarded with a wonderful 3D view that's very easy to hold in the hands and still has Swarovski's legendary waterproofness and durabilty.

Available in both armored and pebble grain versions, the PVs offer the same brilliant coatings you've come to expect in our SV line. Twist up eyecups? Of course! Smooth, internal focus? You bet! Ideal for that second great pair of bins to use at your kid's game, the 7x42s have a field of view of 475' at 1000 yards making it easy to follow the action. The 8.5 and 10x versions are great for most of the rest of us where ultimate ruggedness and compactness aren't required.

So check out the new PV series at your local shop and see if they're the Swarovskis for you
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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 18:55   #81
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Oh boy...this is how internet rumors get started.

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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 19:07   #82
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Oh boy...this is how internet rumors get started.

No rumor Frank, I saw them at the Field Optics Trade Show last month in Saskatoon.
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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 19:12   #83
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Any pics?

:-)
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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 19:17   #84
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Any pics?

:-)
I took some but when I transferred them to my iMac, Swaro's spyware detected and erased them leaving a threatening message evoking the NSA. I left it alone.
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Old Thursday 22nd December 2011, 19:59   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Conville View Post
The new Swarovski PV 7x42, 8.5x42, and 10x42 Porro Prism Binoculars.

New for 2013, Swarovski is now offering a new PORRO PRISM design that's sure to please. Imagine a view that's as sharp and bright and free of stray color as our SV series roof binoculars, in a package that's half the price! Although the new PV series are a little heavier and larger than our SVs, the user is rewarded with a wonderful 3D view that's very easy to hold in the hands and still has Swarovski's legendary waterproofness and durabilty.

Available in both armored and pebble grain versions, the PVs offer the same brilliant coatings you've come to expect in our SV line. Twist up eyecups? Of course! Smooth, internal focus? You bet! Ideal for that second great pair of bins to use at your kid's game, the 7x42s have a field of view of 475' at 1000 yards making it easy to follow the action. The 8.5 and 10x versions are great for most of the rest of us where ultimate ruggedness and compactness aren't required.

So check out the new PV series at your local shop and see if they're the Swarovskis for you
Bravo Kevin! Well done! Let's see more entries..

Last edited by Omid : Thursday 22nd December 2011 at 21:54.
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Old Friday 23rd December 2011, 22:26   #86
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I speak of my own experiences, not about theoretical numbers of manufacturers.
Iīve compared my Zeiss 7x42 FL to some porro binocular, like Vixen Ultima 9x63 (one of the best Vixen binoculars), and 9x63 was only a bit brighter, but not enough it should be for a 63 mm compared to 42 mm. Zeiss has an objetive surface of 44% of Vixen.
The only way to know which one is brighter is comparing them in low light conditions, like twilight, moon nights and astronomy.

How many compact binoculars are brighter than Zeiss Victory 8x20?

I know porro is a brighter design than roof, but I continue thinking only the best porros can pass the best roofs (in brightness).

Otherwise, I think birders donīt need any increase in luminosity (though would welcome), because an alpha 8x32 is enough in most cases. An then we have 42 mm binoculars.
That increase would benefit specially to hunters and astronomers.

I wouldnīt change my Zeiss FL to get a brightest binocular, but Iīd change it to achieve certain optical qualities Swarovision has.
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Old Friday 23rd December 2011, 23:27   #87
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You mentioned the Nikon SE and Nikon EDG. To me, these two models achieve the best balance btwn pincushion and "rolling ball". Panning is smooth with the SEs. The 10x42 EDG also pans smoothly. To Nikon's credit, it was able to achieve these results with both models while also giving them sharp edges, but not going to extreme like the HG or SV EL.
I only have tested once a Nikon EDG, and it was a 10x42 when I compared it to some 8x42, 8.5x42 binoculars. So I havenīt a precise comparation test with EDG.
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Old Saturday 24th December 2011, 01:30   #88
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I only have tested once a Nikon EDG, and it was a 10x42 when I compared it to some 8x42, 8.5x42 binoculars. So I havenīt a precise comparation test with EDG.
Alberto:

I now am thinking your original post on ranking and the rest is making more sense.
It is very hard for anyone to test all of these fine optics over a period of time
and so this seems to be the case with you.

Many of your rankings follow along with much of what is known. The difference is the EDG has proven to be right at the top. But you have not tested it as much, so have not included it.

Too bad, you made a nice review but did not include all of the latest optics.

Jerry
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Old Saturday 24th December 2011, 05:44   #89
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Kevin, you are out of your mind, but in a delightful way. Funny thing is, with some new eyepieces, the Habichts would just about be there.
Ron
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Old Saturday 24th December 2011, 17:05   #90
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Alberto:

I now am thinking your original post on ranking and the rest is making more sense.
It is very hard for anyone to test all of these fine optics over a period of time
and so this seems to be the case with you.

Many of your rankings follow along with much of what is known. The difference is the EDG has proven to be right at the top. But you have not tested it as much, so have not included it.

Too bad, you made a nice review but did not include all of the latest optics.

Jerry
Hello Jerry.
That isnīt a review, itīs only my opinion, as I said.
About Nikon EDG youīre right, I havenīt tried a 8x42 EDG to can review it. Neither I have never tried any Kowa 8.5x44 XD.

But I have had together a Leica Ultravid 8x42 and Zeiss 7x42 FL and I had tested them almost every day in all light conditions, and stopped them to 32 and 25 mm, for about a month.
I sold Leica and kept Zeiss, only because of the higher CA in Leica.

I have had several alpha binoculars and have compared to others several times for periods of about 30-60 minutes in several stores of my city.
The first times no, but now when I go to a store I know exactly what qualities to set, because I know very well my binocularsīs qualities and aberrations, and I know what Iīd like theyīd keep and improve.
Of course that is an opinion not a scientific review.

I only knows something, Swarovision has better contrast and CA, and better edge sharpness than Zeiss FL and SLC HD.
It has better ergonomy too. Itīs as easier(or even easier) for me hold an SV 8.5x42 as my Zeiss 7x42, despite 8.5x against 7x.

The authentic comparison will be:
-Swarovski Swarovision.
-Swarovski SLC HD.
-Nikon EDG.
-New Zeiss.
-New Leica.
-New alpha porro(if any of these brands build it).


Merry Christmas to all

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Old Saturday 24th December 2011, 17:12   #91
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Alberto:

That sounds very good, I'm looking forward to it.

Merry Christmas.

Jerry
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Old Tuesday 17th January 2012, 16:36   #92
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Here are the new Leicas

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I think Leica should make soon a new binocular to compete with the last Swarovski (Swarovision).
His Ultravid is from 2003, and Ultravid HD adds nothing new.
Here are the two brandnew Leica Trinovid binoculars:

2012 Leica Trinovid 8x42

2012 leica Trinovid 10x42
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Old Tuesday 17th January 2012, 16:50   #93
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At about 1100 euro, and no ED glass, I take it this is a step-down from the current HD's? Maybe a mid price unit like the Conquest?
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Old Tuesday 17th January 2012, 18:16   #94
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http://us.leica-camera.com/sport_opt...s/trinovid_42/

Specs attached.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Trinovid 42_e_1.pdf (61.7 KB, 233 views)
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Old Wednesday 18th January 2012, 00:35   #95
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OK. What does HDC coatings mean?

Bob
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Old Wednesday 18th January 2012, 00:54   #96
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Holy Moley! They actually listened to me. :-)

I've been advocating an updated Trinny for a while now. I was hoping the design to retain a little of the "brick" shape w/out the weight rather than look like an Ultraslim, but I'm glad to see that Leica will finally be joining Nikon, Swaro and Zeiss in the burgeoning second tier marketplace, which was one of my predictions. :-)

Thanks for that update tvc15. Bowie thanks you too. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTjsO...layer_embedded

Nostrabrockus

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Old Wednesday 18th January 2012, 01:35   #97
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Holy Moley! They actually listened to me. :-)

I've been advocating an updated Trinny for a while now. I was hoping the design to retain a little of the "brick" shape w/out the weight rather than look like an Ultravid, but I'm glad to see that Leica will finally be joining Nikon, Swaro and Zeiss in the burgeoning second tier marketplace, which was one of my predictions. :-)

Thanks for that update tvc15. Bowie thanks you too. :-)

Nostrabrockus
I must give credit where it is due. I for one never thought I would see this take place.
You were correct in your predection.

T
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Old Wednesday 18th January 2012, 02:09   #98
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Bob,
HDC stands for High Density Coating, meaning the outer lenses have some kind of special abrasion resistance.

Well, by doggies. Wonder where they're made. I regret the name, which fails to distinguish it from the famous and good BA and BN oldies. I guess we'll have to call it the "Trinovid nothing" or "just Trinovid", or "Trinovid, period".
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Old Wednesday 18th January 2012, 06:17   #99
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...I guess we'll have to call it the "Trinovid nothing" or "just Trinovid", or "Trinovid, period".
Ron
Why not: Trinovid..?
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Old Sunday 4th March 2012, 10:14   #100
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We have as alpha binoculars:

-Swarovski Swarovision.
-Swarovski SLC HD.
-Nikon EDG.
-Zeiss HT.

Now Leica should must make a new alpha binocular to compete with them.


We have as betta binoculars:

-Swarovski CL.
-Nikon HG.
-Zeiss Conquest HD.
-Leica Trinovid.
-Kowa XD.
-Minox HG APO.
-Nikon SE and EII.
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