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Do you ignore Leica ?

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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 01:04   #26
HighNorth
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Let's face it: Leicas are behind the times. The Zeiss victory 8x42 SF has a FOV of [email protected] and AFOV of 64°, while the Leica UV HD (Plus) has only [email protected] and AFOV of 58°!

Okay: I understand and respect that people like the "Leica view", but Leica cannot sell me slightly warmed over old bins (the UV HD Plus) with substandard specs for a 8x42 in the 21st century at almost the price of a brand new Zeiss SF.

IMHO, Leica has been resting too long on its laurels, as least of as far as the UV is concerned...
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 01:29   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighNorth View Post
Let's face it: Leicas are behind the times. The Zeiss victory 8x42 SF has a FOV of [email protected] and AFOV of 64°, while the Leica UV HD (Plus) has only [email protected] and AFOV of 58°!

Okay: I understand and respect that people like the "Leica view", but Leica cannot sell me slightly warmed over old bins (the UV HD Plus) with substandard specs for a 8x42 in the 21st century at almost the price of a brand new Zeiss SF.

IMHO, Leica has been resting too long on its laurels, as least of as far as the UV is concerned...
Highnorth:

I am not sure why you would have a care about the new Leica's.

It seems you have had your own worries recently with your new
Zeiss. Is that all now in the past for you ?

Jerry
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 01:30   #28
etudiant
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IMHO, Leica has been resting too long on its laurels, as least of as far as the UV is concerned...
Leica has had non trivial financial problems and been substantially restructured. Leica Sport Optics, to borrow a Zeiss designation, was not a problem, unlike other segments, but it too was squeezed for cash and had few resources to fund new models. Fortunately their products have been good enough to continue to attract buyers despite this.
Considering that Nikon, which has thus far avoided major restructuring, has essentially stepped out of the high end sport optics space, I'd give Leica great credit. They are still in the game and still innovating (Perger prisms the most recent example). I'd expect to see more from them now that their finances have improved somewhat.
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 02:49   #29
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I don't think Mark got that. Here's a version with subtitles.

I hate anyone who ever had a pony growing up

<B>

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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 04:33   #30
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I don't ignore Leica. If I was offered a choice from the three binoculars I'd be most interested in being given, SV EL 8.5x42, Zeiss HT 8x42 and Ultravid HD Plus 7x42, I'd take the Leica.
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 04:38   #31
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It'd be harder to say who I like more out of George and Jerry though. I can definitely live without a pony.
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 05:29   #32
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My how Leica love has boosted as of late with the +. My old BN 12x50 suffers from CA and the dreary view of its era, and my BR 10x50 has a good view but a stiff focus and stinks (literally). I liked my 8x42 BA better than either, but it was one square brick, never did figure out where to put my thumbs. I want to try the new stuff.

I rode our plowhorse (off season), but Daddy got mad when I would run her, which of course I would every chance. She seemed to enjoy it too. "Pony", not. But you can hate me a little bit.

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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 07:24   #33
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Originally Posted by HighNorth View Post
Let's face it: Leicas are behind the times. The Zeiss victory 8x42 SF has a FOV of [email protected] and AFOV of 64°, while the Leica UV HD (Plus) has only [email protected] and AFOV of 58°!
How much birding do you, or anyone else here, do at 1000m ?? Close up and at 'average' birding distances the differences in field of view are really quite small. It is nice to have a wide field but let's be realistic !

Best wishes,
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 07:55   #34
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My birding bin is a Ultravid HD (no plus) 8x42. I like it, the FOV is ok. But it is the one thing that would tempt me to upgrade. I don't care much for sharp edges or more transmission, ergonomics are fine, but more FOV would be nice.

BTW, I think a large FOV is most useful not at 1000 m distance but at 10-25 m. Also at 10 m distance, you see 20 % more of the tree in the SF, which increases the chances to find or follow little birds hopping around there.
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 08:58   #35
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They are still in the game and still innovating (Perger prisms the most recent example). I'd expect to see more from them now that their finances have improved somewhat.
Using the innovative Perger prism for a niche-product like the Geovid is hardly proof for economically worthwile innovations wih binoculars.

Did Dr. Perger develop this prism on his own or what has been Leicas part´of this?
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 09:23   #36
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Originally Posted by Samandag View Post
How much birding do you, or anyone else here, do at 1000m ?? Close up and at 'average' birding distances the differences in field of view are really quite small. It is nice to have a wide field but let's be realistic !

Best wishes,
Sam

You are right about most situations but I find myself searching big areas and therefore benefit greatly from large FOVs when:
Scanning skies for raptors or hirundines.
Scanning lakes or the sea for re-surfacing ducks, divers, cormorants, seals, whales and otters.

And even at short distances an extra bit of FOV can enable you to get a grip on a fast flitting warbler or dragonfly before it disappears.

Like 'edge sharpness', FOV is just one more thing to consider among many other features, but when all other aspects balance out these factors, which can very in importance from person to person, can swing a purchasing decision.

Lee
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 09:28   #37
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Does this mean that Mark is a girl?
You mean he might be a girlie lurking behind a male-sounding name, just like Chosun??

Hmm. On the whole I think this is unlikely, given the growth of his beard, but you never know, some Russian 'lady' athletes are also quite beardy.

Lee
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 10:20   #38
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Originally Posted by oetzi View Post
Using the innovative Perger prism for a niche-product like the Geovid is hardly proof for economically worthwile innovations wih binoculars.
Hard to judge the thing with "niche product" and "economically worthwhile innovations" without knowing detailed business figures from the optics makers or sales numbers from the optics stores. I wouldn't be surprised if the Geovid is actually Leica's best seller...
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 12:54   #39
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Just to get back on-topic for a moment.

Anyone who ignores Leica is doing themselves a disservice.
Leica offers a view that is as enjoyable as the other two alphas.

Lee
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 13:24   #40
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Lee,
I do not think we have to blame Leica, since they make excellent instruments, which have style and good looks (both to look at as to look through). Something that may not have passed this topic is our own behaviour as customers. We often act like spoiled children who want everything now and we want it to be new and exciting and preferably a new model every year.
However a good quality tool can last many years, so we do not have to hunt for new excitements day after day, makes life much easier.
Gijs
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 13:26   #41
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Originally Posted by Troubador View Post
You mean he might be a girlie lurking behind a male-sounding name, just like Chosun??

Hmm. On the whole I think this is unlikely, given the growth of his beard, but you never know, some Russian 'lady' athletes are also quite beardy.

Lee
When I was a little girl in Poland we all had ponies!!

Manya
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 15:30   #42
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I lost interest in Leica, primarily due to their hit and miss customer service here in the USA, and due to the fact they command a premium price accompanied by a pathetic warranty which is good only for the original owner. No other premium optic manufacturer does that. Apparently the vast majority of the 140 or so big game hunters I've had in hunting camp since 2003 agree with me, as I seldom, if ever have anyone show up with a Leica binocular. Maybe 4 or 5 hunters have showed up with them, and most of those the bino/rangefinder combo units.

Leica has got it's azzz handed to them by primarily Swarovski (and everyone else for that mater). Leica Sport Optics....high quality products backed by a sorry company.
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 16:03   #43
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Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Lee,
I do not think we have to blame Leica, since they make excellent instruments, which have style and good looks (both to look at as to look through). Something that may not have passed this topic is our own behaviour as customers. We often act like spoiled children who want everything now and we want it to be new and exciting and preferably a new model every year.
However a good quality tool can last many years, so we do not have to hunt for new excitements day after day, makes life much easier.
Gijs
Gijs I agree with you regarding Leica bins, but companies have to survive in markets that are commanded by the desires and behaviour of their potential customers.

It would be a terribly sad event if we were to lose Leica and I hope this never happens.

Lee
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 16:08   #44
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When I was a little girl in Poland we all had ponies!!

Manya
Dear Manya

I am sure that somewhere on the internet there is a website called Pony Forum. There you will find kindred souls who love and cherish all things horsey.

When you log-in there you will not have to worry about boys, bins or strangely bearded men masqerading as women.

Lee
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 16:54   #45
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Leica cannot sell me slightly warmed over old bins (the UV HD Plus) with substandard specs
A bit unfair HN, and I`v not read of an UVHD breaking with a minor drop !

If I look at a neighbours roof about 100m away with my EII (wider than an SF), I can see the whole ridge with a bit either side, with my substandard UV I still see the WHOLE ridge and a smidge at the sides.

The EII is my favourite bin and has a walk in feel, but the difference is more feel than actual area.
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 17:09   #46
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Hard to judge the thing with "niche product" and "economically worthwhile innovations" without knowing detailed business figures from the optics makers or sales numbers from the optics stores. I wouldn't be surprised if the Geovid is actually Leica's best seller...
Down here the best sold Leica is the Trinovid 42 series because of the 200,00 euro cashback. After that comes the Ultravid HD 42 and 50 series because of the huge discount (minus 25+%). The only other regular sold model is the Geovid (about 1 Geovid to 5 Trinovids).

Jan
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 20:04   #47
HighNorth
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A bit unfair HN, and I`v not read of an UVHD breaking with a minor drop !
Yeah, I'll admit so much: the conventional layout of the UVHD might make for a sturdier bin than the open bridge design of the SF.
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 20:23   #48
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Yeah, I'll admit so much: the conventional layout of the UVHD might make for a sturdier bin than the open bridge design of the SF.
I've never heard of a UVHD breaking either but then again I've never heard of a metre drop onto a stone floor being called a minor drop either

Lee
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 20:58   #49
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Hello,

I must write that I have been ignoring my Leica binoculars, of late: 3 BA's, a BN and an 8x20. On paper, and in practice, FL glass and dielectic coatings and the size of my Zeiss FL 8x32 are well ahead of those old binoculars. I have not had an opportunity to use my 12x50 BA for astronomy, for quite a while.

I have several Leitz Binoculars, including an 8x30 Binuxit, which I keep. It does not work well with spectacles, it is dim by today's standards, it does focus too closely, unless I remove my specs, but it provides a rather pleasant view.

I would like to see Leica jump ahead of the competition. Perhaps, they have something in the development pipeline.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
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Old Friday 1st May 2015, 23:53   #50
HighNorth
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Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
We often act like spoiled children who want everything now and we want it to be new and exciting and preferably a new model every year.
Gijs
Gijs, your motto should be: "the customer is NEVER right!"
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