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New Ultravids coming

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Old Sunday 12th August 2007, 00:56   #51
elkcub
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It's getting to be 95/05 in a hurry, John.
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Old Sunday 12th August 2007, 11:26   #52
Paul Godolphin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Traynor View Post
Much of what we read on BF is nothing more than Post-Purchase Rationalization. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-pu...ationalization

It is a common phenomenon after people have invested a lot of time, money, or effort in something to convince themselves that it must have been worth it. Many decisions are made emotionally, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.
Blimey John, you've answered a lot of questions for me there!
I've been bemused by the emotional outbursts and retrospective justifications of guys on these forums when I've pointed out faults I've experienced with expensive binoculars. Some Swarovski owners have exhibited the most extreme examples of this. Two of my mates used to review Ham Radio equipment on other internet forums and both had to quit after pointing out shortcomings on some expensive radios. Owners levelled personal attacks on them like a load of great big spiteful babies, with their eyes all full of tears, lashing out at those who they felt had belittled the objects of their love.
Has humanity become so materialistic that we defend metal objects as if they were some poor defenceless family member whose honor has been violated? These people must be emotionally inadequate if they feel the need to project their personalities into symbols of their perceived 'status' in this way. Quite shocking really.
Thanks for finding this information. Very enlightening, and as you say, explains a lot of the stuff you see on here, where individuals will 'defend' the product they've bought, wether it's good or bad.
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Old Sunday 12th August 2007, 14:14   #53
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These people must be emotionally inadequate if they feel the need to project their personalities into symbols of their perceived 'status' in this way. Quite shocking really.

Or............they are no more emotionally inadequate than people who have to find 'faults' with everything all of the time !

I, and I am sure some others are, am still uncomfortable by what you define as a 'fault'. I have mentioned this several times. Please remember some of us are very happy with these products and the service they give and others it seems would give their left arm to own them, price perhaps being understandably prohibitive. IME most people owning Swaro and Leica products are genuienely delighted with them because they are very good instruments rather than because the individuals concerned are dellusional. Are they perfect ? Of course not, nothing ever is, but they are considerably more than adequate and IMO go some way in justifying their price tag.


As an owner of Leica and Swaro bins you definitely have the right to express your opinion and experience - you have afterall paid your money. However, I ask you again please don't infer that those of us who are happy with these instruments are in some ways emotionally retarded, intelectually deficient or mentally dellusional just because we hold a different opinion and share a different experience from you !

Enjoy your trip

Cheers,

Linz

PS to make this on topic all the Ultravids I have tried have been fine ( two friends have the same 10x42's and various others have the 10x32 and 8x32's ). The focus knob is very different ( only 1.25 rotations ?) from that on my EL's but it functions just fine (eg.smoothly) and is nothing I can't handle. I paid under £1000 for mine, I think over this is a bit steep and would opt for the EL's if I were in the 'market' given Leica's recent price hike. Just my two cents worth......
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Old Sunday 12th August 2007, 20:29   #54
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It seems to me that PPR (Post-Purchase Rationalization) also occurs when someone opts to buy a lower cost item at the expense of performance and then insists there wasn't any difference anyway. That's a kind of sour grapes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes

Although it's not immediately related, I was very impressed with Wikipedia explanation of bias, which certainly enters into many of the opinions expressed on BF. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias
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Old Saturday 18th August 2007, 16:40   #55
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Old Saturday 18th August 2007, 20:31   #56
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Just tried the new Ultravids HD at the birdfair, all I can say is WOW
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Old Saturday 18th August 2007, 20:46   #57
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And the price for this wow factor is ???

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Old Saturday 18th August 2007, 21:07   #58
Robert / Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdieboy123 View Post
Just tried the new Ultravids HD at the birdfair, all I can say is WOW
What sizes were available for inspection?
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Old Saturday 18th August 2007, 22:52   #59
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As an owner of Leica and Swaro bins you definitely have the right to express your opinion and experience - you have afterall paid your money. However, I ask you again please don't infer that those of us who are happy with these instruments are in some ways emotionally retarded, intelectually deficient or mentally dellusional just because we hold a different opinion and share a different experience from you !
Enjoy your trip Cheers,Linz..
Hi Linz, thanks for the good wishes
No mate, I'd never do that. I'm really really jealous of you lucky owners who are enjoying your binos to the max. That's what I wished for myself when I paid my money. I'm just a sad old sausage because mine all seem to be the 'unlucky ones' with what I perceive to be faults. I'd swap with you any time, you lucky fella.
No, the bit I don't understand is the denial. Some other owners just seem to want to 'defend' the products from objective analysis, because the outcome might be unfavourable. I fully accept that many Ultravids haven't yet developed the juddery focus wheel. But many others have. Thus, I don't call people liars who are lucky enough not to have the fault yet. But I am puzzled why some chaps find it neccesary to keep contradicting those who post reports saying that they've experienced the fault.
Likewise, the other make with the hole. I perceive that to be a fault because I can see inside the binocular through it, and have posted photos looking through the hole. Sancho even put his in a bucket and watched a line of bubbles rising from the hole as the focus bridge filled with water. This then drained back out, leaving the mechanicals inside water-logged. And yet for page-after-page of subsequent postings, other writers continued to deny that a).the hole existed b).the photos existed c).the hole would leak.
This is what I can't understand. In the face of these (very unfortunate) facts, why the denial?
Surely, if we stay constructive and bring any problems to the attention of our favourite manufacturers, they'll be pleased to improve their products for our mutual benefit? I hope so.
In fact it seems that Leica are already doing-so with planned focus wheel changes. A happy day indeed.
Thanks for the comments Linz. Nothing personal intended, I assure you.
all the best Paul
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 02:44   #60
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Let's not confuse the denial of facts with the denial of what they mean. No one denies that a slot exists in some EL models, based on your pictures, or that water will enter the bridge under some conditions. Water does not, however, enter the sealed, nitrogen filled tubes as you initially asserted ad nauseum. Do you admit to that error, or has that part been completely forgotten (i.e., in denial)? Assuming you do admit to it (which you should), is there a drop of evidence that water entering the bridge has damaged or compromised anyone's binoculars? We all know that Swarovski would graciously repair any such damage, so what exactly is the hobgoblin you are complaining about?

Why is this important? Because you continue to attack without justification a company that can't defend itself openly on this forum, and in the process are attempting to, and probably succeeding in, turning people away from their product line. I'm done with looking the other way, only to be accused of being "in denial" relative to how YOU connect imaginary dots.

The undeniable facts are:

# Swarovski makes world class binoculars.
# Swarovski binoculars are very reliable.
# Swarovski provides world class service.
# All things made by the hand of man can be improved.

Ed
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 03:01   #61
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Paul,
Read this: http://www.grayssportingjournal.com/...07/leica.shtml.
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 03:22   #62
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Well said elkcub.

Most of these rantings can be laughed off, but your points about turning people away are most relevant.
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 04:10   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkcub View Post

The undeniable facts are:

# Swarovski makes world class binoculars.
# Swarovski binoculars are very reliable.
# Swarovski provides world class service.
# All things made by the hand of man can be improved.

Ed
agreed
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 06:16   #64
Paul Godolphin
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Ha harrr You're very witty Bob.
Bet those are hard to focus with a strap like that!
Thanks for injecting some lighthearted humour, just as this
discussion looks set to turn ugly again. As they say here
in NZ..."Good on ya, mate!"
Paul
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 06:47   #65
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Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
No one denies that a slot exists in some EL models, based on your pictures, or that water will enter the bridge under some conditions.....so what exactly is the hobgoblin you are complaining about?

Why is this important?...you continue to attack without justification a company that can't defend itself openly on this forum.

The undeniable facts are:

# Swarovski makes world class binoculars.
# Swarovski binoculars are very reliable.
# Swarovski provides world class service.
# All things made by the hand of man can be improved.
Ed
Blimey Ed, you sound very cross about this.
Let's move this off the Leica thread, as the discussion has inevitably drifted back onto another make (you named them, not me).
If you want to take the discussion up a gear, I'd be delighted to have a good old arguement with you, but perhaps we should do it by personal message? Let me know if you'd like to do that, as I'm sure the others don't want to read this stuff any more. But just to answer a couple of your points:
1). Nobody denies the slot exists? Sorry mate, you haven't done your homework. A number of writers denied it. That's why I posted the photos. In fact, you helped me to do it, remember?
2). Nobody denies the water will enter? Nope Ed, wrong again. Check your back-reading. There have been several posts saying that Sancho's bins didn't leak at all. Why, when he told us that they did? Try reading it again.
3). I am not attacking the company. I am passing-on factual information. The company is at liberty to join us and discuss the matter, but has not done so. Other manufacturers (Zeiss and Kowa) have made entries on these forums by senior members of their service depts in the last few weeks alone, answering problems. The other company you mentioned are free to do so.
4). S*****ski provides world class service???? Mate, you wouldn't say that if you'd seen my file of unanswered letters, emails, declined phone calls and failures to call back as promised. You might have good service in the USA, but here in UK there is NO SERVICE DEPARTMENT. Every little job has to be shipped back to Austria. The company told me this personally. They were even unable to tighten a small screw in this country. Tha'ts not world-class mate, it's 'USA-only' class.

And just in case you're about to accuse me of bias again, I wholeheartedly AGREE with you Ed, they DO make world class binoculars. I've said this in many postings. In fact, I've said that in my humble opinion, they can make the world's BEST binoculars. If I could simply walk into a shop and replace the pair I lost with an identical pair (ie. pre-hole and pre-fast focus) I'd still be a happy owner, like I was for the first five years.

I'm very sorry if I keep repeating the same things "ad nauseum" as you put it. But each time I get called a liar or something true get denied "ad nauseum" I'm sorry, but I'll discuss it again. It ain't me starting it, is it?

drop me a line if you wish, Ed. Let's move off the Leica forum. best regards Paul
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 09:18   #66
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Originally Posted by dipped View Post
And the price for this wow factor is ???

Nev
Suggested Retail Price
8x32 HD £1,210
10x32 HD £1,280
7x42 HD £1,280
8x42 HD £1,350
10x42 HD £1,420
8x50 HD £1,350
10x50 HD £1,420
12x50 HD £1,570
All these models where on show, they were officially launched at the British Birdwatching Fair on friday
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 12:16   #67
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See them here at:

http://www.leica-camera.us/nature_ob...id_binoculars/
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 17:24   #68
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Curious: It was my understanding that the was no change to the optical system between the Trinovids and the Ultravids other than coatings. The internal lenses were all the same. I guess that when you incorporate FL glass, then all the lenses change?

At the price something you really have to try before you buy.



Mike
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 18:11   #69
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Does this mean the price of the ULTRAVID BR 8x42 going to go down?
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 19:54   #70
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What are the prices for the current non-HD models?

Ed
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 20:03   #71
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What are the prices for the current non-HD models?

Ed
Depending on size, between about 1700.00 and 2,000.00 USD, via internet dealers.
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Old Sunday 19th August 2007, 20:20   #72
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Originally Posted by birdieboy123 View Post
Just tried the new Ultravids HD at the birdfair, all I can say is WOW

I tried them too and found the focus wheel to be very stiff on the 8x32's. I asked for assistance to be told that's how they are supposed to be.

The optics are faultless but I won't be giving up my existing bins even if I had £1200+ to spare.

Dave J
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Old Monday 20th August 2007, 01:39   #73
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I just read

http://www.leica-camera.us/assets/fi...=file_2754.pdf
(right click to download)

and it's clear Leica plans to compete head on with Zeiss in controlling chromatic aberrations.

Surely, Nikon and Swarovski will follow suit and incorporate fluoride glass in their premium models.

John
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Old Monday 20th August 2007, 02:38   #74
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Good thing Renze and I are all set with our 804EDs. Ya gotta love 'em, those copycats.
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Old Monday 20th August 2007, 08:22   #75
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Just tried the new Ultravids HD at the birdfair, all I can say is WOW
I tried them too , in particular the 8 x 32. It was Wow for me too . Much more significant was the 'Wow! ' from my wife . We looked through lots of other bino's from other makers, she was hoping we would find an alternative .We didn't, we'll be saving up for a pair of HD's.
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