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Panasonic going full frame (1 Viewer)

There's no doubt that the 48.8mm [EDIT: or is it 51.6mm? as I have read elsewhere - L mount alliance release] dia/ 20mm FFD mount of the Leica L is a compromise that's not quite as good as Nikon's 55mm/ 16mm - which allows more optical train efficiencies (marginally smaller, lighter lenses), and not just (but mostly) for wide and/or fast lenses.

What it does do though, as I have said above, is give Panasonic a flying start in populating it's lens line up - particularly with Sigma on board and the work they have done for the very similar dimensioned Sony FE mount and the large range of lenses that already exist for that. With this choice of L lens mount, Panasonic will neatly leapfrog Nikon next year in the mirrorless lens range quantity available.

It seems that Panasonic are going to be quite the force. FF 4K60p is pretty cool :cool: and 8K is clearly programmed into the strategic road map for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics ....

The only question for me is how well the Contrast Detect, and DFD AF system will work comparitively (relative to Nikon and Sony, plus Canon too).

The other thing after watching the vid is I'm still none the wiser on the EVF spec. Everyone is claiming 'leading' and 'top resolution' performance, but the Nikon / Sony / Canon offerings are a virtually identical 3.6MP, yet the Leica SL (Typ601) has been out with a 4.4MP EVF for over a year now ! :eek!: I wonder if the top spec Panasonic S1r sports that one too ?




Chosun :gh:
 
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Chosun Juan said:
There's no doubt that the 48.8mm [EDIT: or is it 51.6mm? as I have read elsewhere - L mount alliance release] dia/ 20mm FFD mount of the Leica L is a compromise that's not quite as good as Nikon's 55mm/ 16mm - which allows more optical train efficiencies (marginally smaller, lighter lenses), and not just (but mostly) for wide and/or fast lenses.

What it does do though, as I have said above, is give Panasonic a flying start in populating it's lens line up - particularly with Sigma on board and the work they have done for the very similar dimensioned Sony FE mount and the large range of lenses that already exist for that. With this choice of L lens mount, Panasonic will neatly leapfrog Nikon next year in the mirrorless lens range quantity available.

It seems that Panasonic are going to be quite the force. FF 4K60p is pretty cool :cool: and 8K is clearly programmed into the strategic road map for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics ....

The only question for me is how well the Contrast Detect, and DFD AF system will work comparitively (relative to Nikon and Sony, plus Canon too).

The other thing after watching the vid is I'm still none the wiser on the EVF spec. Everyone is claiming 'leading' and 'top resolution' performance, but the Nikon / Sony / Canon offerings are a virtually identical 3.6MP, yet the Leica SL (Typ601) has been out with a 4.4MP EVF for over a year now ! :eek!: I wonder if the top spec Panasonic S1r sports that one too ?

Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

51.6mm seems to be the correct value on the L-mount diameter. Fixed it in my post. Dpreview seem to be a bit dubious about the diameter as well though.

"The company says the 24MP S1 is expected to be used around 70% for stills and 30% for video, targeting people such as wedding photographers and photojournalists. The S1R will be "purely for photographers," the company says, with landscape, commercial and portrait photographers being explicitly named."

"Following the decision of Canon and Nikon to use short, wide mounts, it's interesting to see Panasonic opt into a mount that's considerably narrower (around 50mm, rather than the 54mm of Canon's R mount). We asked Panasonic about this and were told: "Leica designed the original 35mm camera: they know what they're doing."

"Panasonic stressed that it will continue to sell and develop the Micro Four Thirds system in parallel with its L-mount system, which will be targeted at high-end users."

https://www.dpreview.com/news/3187253376/panasonic-s1-and-s1r-what-we-know-so-far

To me it seems pretty clear that there will be no 600mm/f4 or similar telephoto lenses for the S-system in a foreseeable future.

I guess the competition would be too tough in the sports/wildlife area.
That closes the case pretty much for me and I would rather pic up a X-T3 and use it for
anything that Panasonic say the S-system is about. IQ & video is that good on the Fuji,
and it's only $1500 and lenses are smaller, lighter and cheaper (most likely).
 
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Panasonic seem to be late to the mirrorless FF party with a bigger camera than ever before. Not many will buy a camera that has no lenses and current MFT enthusiasts will not be overly happy about the increasing size & weight? The Sigma FF lenses are not famous for being small and light to say the least.

The only hope is that Olympus join in on the L-mount and makes a compact a APS-C camera with a 600mm/f5.6 PF! Maybe the'll even get it out on the market before Nikon! ;-)

"...promised simultaneous launch date for both models of “early 2019”." is mentioned but also "that more information will be released early 2019". So to me the release date is not clear at all.

"Panasonic are also publishing a lens roadmap, with 10 lenses in total due for release by the end of 2020, a promising start."

"The Panasonic S1R/S1 is a physically big camera, and the 50mm f/1.4 is a physically big lens. Panasonic’s new full-frame system is quite a lot bigger than Sony’s and Nikon’s, being more akin to Canon’s in size with regards to both the body and the lens"

"Panasonic also told us that more companies may follow and join the L-mount Alliance, if they apply and meet the standards."

https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/panasonic_s1_review/first_impressions
 
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What is the advantage going ff mirrorless for bird photography as long lenses seem to be either scarce or expensive (or both) for those camera's from Panasonic, Sony, Olympus and pentax? + you have less reach with FF?
 
temmie said:
What is the advantage going ff mirrorless for bird photography as long lenses seem to be either scarce or expensive (or both) for those camera's from Panasonic, Sony, Olympus and pentax? + you have less reach with FF?
Click to expand...
A circa ~50MP FF is pretty much the same resolution as current DX's. It's only processing power, heat dissipation, and cost that is required to equal a high speed Pro DX. The issues are technically solvable, and the processing power increases (and costs reduce) according to Moore's law. Plans are already on the propeller head's drawing boards for ~70MP and even100MP+ FF.

True that those new entrants to the FF mirrorless market don't have affordable native long lenses, but already a day after the official announcement, I have read of EF to L mount adapters from fourth party's.

Also true is that these new FF mirrorless offerings aren't drastically solving the weight issue - I think we will have to look to Diffractive Optics lenses or high $ for that ...... maybe both ! :eek!:

I think the big advantages will be in higher frame rates, silent operation eventually, ultimately better AF (with AI) and video, IBIS, and lower production cost.

For the moment though, this explosion of FF mirrorless offerings should be good for prosumer landscapers, travellers/ bloggers, videographers, and as general low light walkabout street cams, not to mention first adopters ! ...... importantly it also stops your existing (or potential) customers walking away to greener pastures ..... :cat:



Chosun :gh:
 
For the moment though, this explosion of FF mirrorless offerings should be good for prosumer landscapers, travellers/ bloggers, videographers, and as general low light walkabout street cams
Click to expand...

Early on in this thread (when everything was still speculation) I said something similar. The one part where I disagree: for a traveler, I think smaller sensor generally is better due to weight issues.

There is a lot of hype the last couple of years that I do not think is quite born out in reality: most of those who buys a new camera are not good enough with processing etc to really benefit from a FF camera anyway. But a company has to react to the costumer demand, even if that demand is somewhat driven by hype ...

Niels
 
temmie said:
What is the advantage going ff mirrorless for bird photography as long lenses seem to be either scarce or expensive (or both) for those camera's from Panasonic, Sony, Olympus and pentax? + you have less reach with FF?
Click to expand...

If the next version of Sigma 800/5.6 is made for the L-mount and IQ and price level is similar to the 500/4 Sports, things might get interesting.
Imagine a 800mm/f5.6 on FF for half the price of Nikon/Canon equivalents but with similar image quality and no issues with camera compatibility. Or a 600/4 perhaps.
That might get some wild life shooters interested.
But that really sounds pretty far fetched...
 
I have not seen this animal but I have seen a 300-800 zoom from sigma IRL. The lens took one backpack, and the camera another. Not my cup of tea!

Niels
 
Release of Panasonic FF Mirrorless 24MP 'S1' and '47' MP S1R ..... "Close"

It seems we will soon know how good these Panasonic FF Mirrorless debutants are .....
https://m.dpreview.com/interviews/6...y-highest-level-of-durability-in-the-industry

If ever there was a company that could take it up to Sony --- it is Panasonic (even if they may be using many Sony components ... lol :)

CaNikon had better watch their backs! :eek!:

I have no doubt Panasonic will do an excellent job. The only question is how will their AF system compare with the beige EOS R, Z6/Z7, and indeed the leading DSLR models, and even the a9 ...... ???

I wonder if they also have a 60-75MP planned for release before the Olympics like the other two/ three ......




Chosun :gh:
 
Chosun Juan said:
It seems we will soon know how good these Panasonic FF Mirrorless debutants are .....
https://m.dpreview.com/interviews/6...y-highest-level-of-durability-in-the-industry

If ever there was a company that could take it up to Sony --- it is Panasonic (even if they may be using many Sony components ... lol :)

CaNikon had better watch their backs! :eek!:

I have no doubt Panasonic will do an excellent job. The only question is how will their AF system compare with the beige EOS R, Z6/Z7, and indeed the leading DSLR models, and even the a9 ...... ???

I wonder if they also have a 60-75MP planned for release before the Olympics like the other two/ three ......


Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

I'm sure that current Lumix users might be excited, but the smaller form factor of the MFT system (lenses) is lost, so to me it's an marketing equation that's not simple.

Single point AF is already fast in Panasonic cams, probably faster than Nikon.
Until there are any longer lenses for action shooters, AF-C will be improved.
Having no PD-AF in video is a bigger problem, even though it has been improved and works pretty OK in the G9/GH5.
More AI and faster processors will make it even better I guess.
 
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