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Bird App - Sanderling (1 Viewer)

russkie

Well-known member
Technology is absolutely amazing. Used free app -Merlin Bird ID by Cornell University, the app identified my pic below as indeed a Sanderling - pleased my original ID was correct. Good APP -worth 5 stars
 

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Merlin is famous for producing some hilarious misidentifications, as well - don't rely on it too much. It's right in this case.

John
 
Mark

Many thanks. Presumably it has continued to 'learn' since then as well. A friend was using a plant App recently with which he was impressed.

All the best
 
Mark

Many thanks. Presumably it has continued to 'learn' since then as well. A friend was using a plant App recently with which he was impressed.

All the best

I think (I don't keep records of this sort of thing) the examples I saw (perhaps some while ago) were in the ID forum on here, and the app may have struggled with less than perfect photos. I imagine it would need very good data to do Common vs Wilson's Snipe? The trouble is it is most likely to be used by people who aren't ID gurus and most likely not photography aces either: but what they may well be is accustomed to putting their faith in software....

I expect we've all had the experience of spotting a wildlife error on the TV and then having a partner or other party argue that the expert on there said it was so it must be. This is no different.

John
 
I think (I don't keep records of this sort of thing) the examples I saw (perhaps some while ago) were in the ID forum on here, and the app may have struggled with less than perfect photos. I imagine it would need very good data to do Common vs Wilson's Snipe? The trouble is it is most likely to be used by people who aren't ID gurus and most likely not photography aces either: but what they may well be is accustomed to putting their faith in software....

I expect we've all had the experience of spotting a wildlife error on the TV and then having a partner or other party argue that the expert on there said it was so it must be. This is no different.

John

I will have a look for the thread. I do remember something but clearly not with the same final impression. It was a BBRC member that was impressed with it rather than my wife......

Mind you occasionally the inexperienced actually look at birds. I remember handing the Pagham Sandplover photos to our lodger and she had no hesitation matching it to the atrifons Lesser Sandplover in Shorebirds. Something that appeared beyond the observers in the field before its departure. 3:)

All the best
 
I will have a look for the thread. I do remember something but clearly not with the same final impression. It was a BBRC member that was impressed with it rather than my wife......

Mind you occasionally the inexperienced actually look at birds. I remember handing the Pagham Sandplover photos to our lodger and she had no hesitation matching it to the atrifons Lesser Sandplover in Shorebirds. Something that appeared beyond the observers in the field before its departure. 3:)

All the best

Funny you should say that. Mick Scott's boy Will was adamant it was Lesser from the off (on site, too!) but since he was but a child at the time, was roundly ignored. I had my own epiphany with the thing because I'd heard of it while seawatching in Cornwall and convinced Mum it was practically on the way home, so arrived with no field-guide induced preconceptions, consequently looked at the actual bird more carefully than I otherwise might, and on arriving home absolutely couldn't make it fit Greater. I rang all my mates and advised them to go at once, but half had already left for the Birdfair. I was anything but surprised when the rumour it was being written up in BW as a Lesser began to circulate. If ever there was a bird that taught me to look for myself and make my own mind up, it was that one.

Cheers

John
 
John, a couple of comments on Merlin here.

I was actually one of the people who helped "train" the app by manually going through and verifying/rejecting identifications. This was several years ago in the app's early stages (beta, actually!). I remember several egregious misidentifications on these forums, as well as several misidentifications on eBird where the checklist comments were simply "identified by Merlin app", no apparent observer effort.

However, just a couple months ago I downloaded the app (for fun, I don't use it myself) and had at it with my bad pictures.

In short, I was impressed! It's always better when the app is given at least some simple information on timing/location. I'm attaching a link to a terrible Hooded Merganser photo that the app had zero trouble with. It was only the very worst photos where the app was a bit shaky.

https://download.ams.birds.cornell.edu/api/v1/asset/157896331/480
 
John, a couple of comments on Merlin here.

I was actually one of the people who helped "train" the app by manually going through and verifying/rejecting identifications. This was several years ago in the app's early stages (beta, actually!). I remember several egregious misidentifications on these forums, as well as several misidentifications on eBird where the checklist comments were simply "identified by Merlin app", no apparent observer effort.

My understanding, I cant verify where I saw this, is that Merlin uses AI principles to 'learn' Therefore it gets better with both time and use. I understand that it also uses eBird data to consider the likely (possible/probable) species - again this is getting better as more people use eBird.

Historic comments may not be useful. I have heard that the Central and South American id is very good. Some European may have a bit to go. This sort of reflects the users of system and eBird.
 
Well, lets give it a chance. But lets not pass up the chance to remark that any birder will learn more by doing it themselves - or does the app tell you why the bird is what it is?

John
 
If you upload any picture into https://waarneming.nl/ or https://waarnemingen.be, it will give you an ID of birds, butterflies, plants, flies, etc, but of course only local species. It is often right, although it has a penchant for identifying the most unlikely plants as Ranunculus nemorosus (which is exceptionally rare in the Netherlands, if not extinct).
 
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Well, lets give it a chance. But lets not pass up the chance to remark that any birder will learn more by doing it themselves - or does the app tell you why the bird is what it is?

John

I fully agree here! Regardless of its possible benefits, I worry that it will cause people to prioritize photos over careful observation even more than is the case now.

It really gets me when the only comments on a rare bird in an eBird checklist are "identified by Merlin ID App". Where did describing habitat, behavior, etc. go?
 
I know this might sound terribly luddite, but I can't think of any circumstances where I would want to be told what I'm looking at by a computer. Isn't the process of identification a large part of the hobby?

I wonder who benefits from this app, apart from the sort of bird togs who don't own binoculars or a field guide? Certainly not novice birders who should be poring over a field guide and their field notes.

I know, bah humbug... old man shouting at clouds!
 
I know this might sound terribly luddite, but I can't think of any circumstances where I would want to be told what I'm looking at by a computer. Isn't the process of identification a large part of the hobby?

I wonder who benefits from this app, apart from the sort of bird togs who don't own binoculars or a field guide? Certainly not novice birders who should be poring over a field guide and their field notes.

I know, bah humbug... old man shouting at clouds!

Non-birding members of the public, people who feed birds in their back garden and get an unusual visitor, people who are on holiday, people who don't own books.......

I often get asked by non-birding friends, non-birding family members and non-birding work colleagues to identify birds. The latest was the security guard at my office who had a juvenile European Starling visit his feeder.

Anything that encourages people to engage with nature and broadens that and maybe gets people into birdwatching is good news. I have a friend who uses the plant identification equivalent.

I occasionally spend time playing with the quiz, very rarely reidentifying or flagging photos and on the odd occasion having my own photos corrected though I swear my Great Cormorant identified as a Common Buzzard was a labelling error!

All the best
 
Non-birding members of the public, people who feed birds in their back garden and get an unusual visitor, people who are on holiday, people who don't own books.......

I often get asked by non-birding friends, non-birding family members and non-birding work colleagues to identify birds. The latest was the security guard at my office who had a juvenile European Starling visit his feeder.

Anything that encourages people to engage with nature and broadens that and maybe gets people into birdwatching is good news. I have a friend who uses the plant identification equivalent.

I occasionally spend time playing with the quiz, very rarely reidentifying or flagging photos and on the odd occasion having my own photos corrected though I swear my Great Cormorant identified as a Common Buzzard was a labelling error!

All the best

Fair comment, but is this really engaging with nature? Isn't it better to get such people involved in the process of ID rather than just giving them the answer on a plate? We've got a wetland centre locally where kids come to learn about wildlife. It has TV monitors and live cameras you can operate with a joystick. All I ever see is the kids playing with the cameras rather than looking out of the windows with binoculars at the actual birds.
 
I expect we've all had the experience of spotting a wildlife error on the TV and then having a partner or other party argue that the expert on there said it was so it must be. This is no different.

John

According to the one game of Trivial Pursuit I played many years ago, the bird whose Latin name is Crex Crex is the Grey Partridge. The glee on the faces of the other three members of the family when I got it 'wrong' was enough to convince me to never play the game again - and I haven't, since that moment. (Then again, as I like to state while making my excuses not to join in another game, the things I know about aren't trivial. ;)
 
Fair comment, but is this really engaging with nature? Isn't it better to get such people involved in the process of ID rather than just giving them the answer on a plate? We've got a wetland centre locally where kids come to learn about wildlife. It has TV monitors and live cameras you can operate with a joystick. All I ever see is the kids playing with the cameras rather than looking out of the windows with binoculars at the actual birds.

Yes. It is engaging with nature and I don't set a threshold entry level for what counts. The security guard from our office has gone from enjoying our local breeding peregrines, to taking the odd photo on holiday, to enjoying the local goldfinches, to feeding the birds in his garden, to being intrigued by the identity of a mystery bird (the juvenile starling), .....

Maybe one day he will buy a field guide.

And you do not know whether any of those kids will develop further interests or indeed does so already unseen by you.

It is all about pushing entry levels further and making nature accessible. In a world with so much to be negative about from a wildlife perspective, increased accessibility through technology is one straw worth clutching.....

All the best
 
According to the one game of Trivial Pursuit I played many years ago, the bird whose Latin name is Crex Crex is the Grey Partridge. The glee on the faces of the other three members of the family when I got it 'wrong' was enough to convince me to never play the game again - and I haven't, since that moment. (Then again, as I like to state while making my excuses not to join in another game, the things I know about aren't trivial. ;)

I would have got a book and showed them, then taken a biro and corrected the card and listened gleefully to the howls of dismay that I'd defaced the game. Then I'd likely have gone through all the other cards looking for similar mistakes and correcting them. :t:

John
 
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