Eagle Owls in Yorkshire?? (1 Viewer)

Keith Reeder · Nov 17, 2005

vwxyzen said:
Who can say with 100% certainty that these birds are not the genuine article?

That's precisely the point though: it's not for the BOU and the RSPB to prove that EO isn't an erstwhile UK native species, but rather for someone to prove that it was.

Until there's incontrovertible evidence that there was a natural UK population at some point in the past, it's an alien species. That's just how the argument works.

I'm not saying I like it, but I can't see that there's any other way to deal with issues like this.

kingfisher · Nov 17, 2005

There could be an Eagle Owl or two near you, and you might not even know it, just keep an eye on Tiddles though............LOL. Amazing birds, I was lucky enough to hold one some years ago, these are mighty birds. Looking forward to seeing a wild one some day.

roosmum · Nov 17, 2005

I've just read a post on a bbc message board from someone who says that their "1805 copy of Bewick states that 'this bird has been found, though rarely in Great Britain' "

Jos Stratford · Nov 17, 2005

"And I have very strong doubts (I was corrected on this point myself by a local birder far more knowledgeable than myself on such matters) that they're breeding up here ..."

"There could be an Eagle Owl or two near you, and you might not even know it, just keep an eye on Tiddles though............"

Unless you're doing a dedicated search, going out at night for the call or looking for prey remains (then you're not sure who are the 'guilty' party), Eagle Owls are very easy to overlook in an area - I have a breeding pair on my local patch and, despite knowing the approximate nest site, it is not every year that I see the birds.

John Dixon · Nov 17, 2005

Phil Palmer's book is quite definite on the previous residency issue: there are Eagle Owls in the fossil record. In a country where a day-list can include Golden Pheasant, Mandarin, Little Owl, Canada Goose, Ring-necked (or Rose-ringed if you prefer) Parakeet (and the extermination of a population of Ruddy Ducks is proposed): where you can see Muntjac, Chinese Water Deer, Sika, American Mink, Wall Lizard or Aesculapian Snake, is it at all appropriate to do other than welcome back the Eagle Owl by whatever means it arrives? (I say this as a big fan of the Wild Boars in Kent and East Sussex, by the way. Another native species whose return needs support now - check out the consultation document on the British Wild Boar website.)

London Birder · Nov 17, 2005

Isn't there some controversy over the fossil record?

Cuckoo-shrike · Nov 17, 2005

That's a very good point above made by vwxyzen about Goshawks in Britain. They are generally thought to be derived from escaped falconers' birds. The RSPB put resources into protecting them, so they would surely be inconsistent in refusing to protect EOs. I wasn't impressed by their Scottish rep talking about a possible threat to Corncrakes in terms of the amount of money they've spent (indicates just what a corporate mindset they've developed).

We saw the evidence provided on the programme about how far EOs disperse. When you consider how many Long-eared and Short-eared Owls cross the North Sea every autumn it would be amazing if no EO had ever arrived here by way of natural vagrancy. I thought Steve Dudley could have been a little more positive on that.

Ian Bell · Nov 17, 2005

Migrating Owls

To follow up the Owl migration point.Short eared Owl and Long eared Owl have came to rest on Oil Rig Platforms in the middle of the North Sea,hundreds of miles from land.This backs up the theory that Eagle Owl could cross the North Sea or English Channel.If I remember correctly,the tiny Scops Owl has also used Oil Platforms in the North Sea to rest up,in the past.Only a thought.

London Birder · Nov 17, 2005

he could've been a little morse positive in that respect but to what avail? We know SEO and LEO come across the sea to the UK ... who can say the same about EO?

Good point about Goshawks but I imagine they have gained legal protection (something the EO currently lacks) by virtue of the fact they were once part of a naturally occuring avifauna in Britain ... it's not so clear with EO.

CornishExile · Nov 17, 2005

Ben Nevis said:
To follow up the Owl migration point.Short eared Owl and Long eared Owl have came to rest on Oil Rig Platforms in the middle of the North Sea,hundreds of miles from land.This backs up the theory that Eagle Owl could cross the North Sea or English Channel.If I remember correctly,the tiny Scops Owl has also used Oil Platforms in the North Sea to rest up,in the past.Only a thought.

Hmm, but here's the thing - SEO and LEO are semi-regularly found on or seen from the rigs, and of course are not uncommonly seen by birders during migration on the east coast. Even the tiny fellas like Scops and Little Owl are found newly in by birders on occasion. So why the complete dearth of sightings of migrant Eagle Owls every autumn?

Just because they're strong fliers and could easily hop the Channel / the North Sea doesn't seem to be reflected in what they're actually doing.

ce

George Garner · Nov 17, 2005

Amarillo said:
Do people welcome the idea of eagle owls establishing themselves in Britain?

I know there is some doubt over whether they are native - but I would say they are a fantastic addition to our birdlife assuming the impact on other birds of prey is not too great

Hi ,
I am torn as to wether it is a good thing or not, on the one hand I would love to see them in the flesh. But I wonder if it is giving ammunition to the hookey bill haters. Also it was said on telivision that these birds have no protection as they are not on the british list, does this give the mindless ones the authority to go out and destroy them?
George

London Birder · Nov 17, 2005

certainly makes you wonder where the 20+ young have gone

Keith Reeder · Nov 17, 2005

London Birder said:
Good point about Goshawks but I imagine they have gained legal protection (something the EO currently lacks) by virtue of the fact they were once part of a naturally occuring avifauna in Britain ... it's not so clear with EO.

Exactly - apples and oranges, really.

Re: Bewick - even if he was right that the bird was found "though rarely" in the UK - it still doesn't mean they were an endemic breeding species, and in fact it strongly suggests the exact opposite.

I want them around, I hasten to add, but it seems to me that there's still no proof (as opposed to speculation and supposition) that they ever bred here.

Isurus · Nov 17, 2005

I thoroughly enjoyed the programme and found myself answering the question "hedgehogs - would we be willing to accept this?" out loud in the affirmative! I'm not sure whether they are technically native and I thought the programme was perhaps a little harsh on the BOU list guys who obviously put a lot of time and consideration into all their deliberations.

Given that they are clearly suitable for similar habitat just over the sea I see no reason to remove them.

One question. If just one single ringed bird from scandanavia or holland blew into spurn or gib one morning and the BOU accepted it as a genuine vagrant would all our EO suddenly become protected?

Amarillo · Nov 17, 2005

Keith Reeder said:
That's precisely the point though: it's not for the BOU and the RSPB to prove that EO isn't an erstwhile UK native species, but rather for someone to prove that it was.

Until there's incontrovertible evidence that there was a natural UK population at some point in the past, it's an alien species. That's just how the argument works.

I'm not saying I like it, but I can't see that there's any other way to deal with issues like this.

I see it the other way round. Obviously if a birds normal range is on the other side of the world, then it must be assumed alien unless proved native.

However, if the bird is resident in neighbouring european countries, especially if these populations are increasing and expanding westwards, then surely it should be assumed that it is a natural colonisation unless proved otherwise.?

I must say I am shocked at the attitude of some conservationists on this issue. No-one will ever know now, how those birds got here. That is a fact. Unless it is proven beyond any doubt that they are escapees, I don't see how we can justify not giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Salty - I am very interested to hear that you think there is another pair somewhere. Given that this pair was kept secret for 10 years, I am sure there must be a few more around.

MarkHows · Nov 17, 2005

George Garner said:
Hi ,
I am torn as to wether it is a good thing or not, on the one hand I would love to see them in the flesh. But I wonder if it is giving ammunition to the hookey bill haters. Also it was said on telivision that these birds have no protection as they are not on the british list, does this give the mindless ones the authority to go out and destroy them?
George

Ther is some confusion over this as the are an EU protected bird!
I don't know the answer, perhaps someone could clarify if this overides the UK no protection?

There is the same problem with edible dormice in the UK, they are introduced and therefore not protected but all dormice are protected in the EU.

Another point was raised about them eating red and black grouse on the moors, why are they concerned as people are allowed to shoot both of these species.

I would welcome a watchpoint like the sea eagles where one pair can be watched to avoid disturbance to any of the others, ther could be a charge for this and the landowner would benefit.

Mark

London Birder · Nov 17, 2005

well, I think they would then look at legally protecting the UK birds as there is then a case for arguing a continental origin ... it seems the Dutch population is stemmed from escapes/releases so is presumably a Cat C species (or the equivilent) in Holland; once it gains official acceptence onto the Brit list it automatically gains legal protection

dbradnum · Nov 17, 2005

CornishExile said:
Hmm, but here's the thing - SEO and LEO are semi-regularly found on or seen from the rigs, and of course are not uncommonly seen by birders during migration on the east coast. Even the tiny fellas like Scops and Little Owl are found newly in by birders on occasion. So why the complete dearth of sightings of migrant Eagle Owls every autumn?

Just because they're strong fliers and could easily hop the Channel / the North Sea doesn't seem to be reflected in what they're actually doing.

ce

An email on a local list from LGRE mentions a probable immigrant Eagle Owl in Felixstowe a few autumns ago. Apparently it spent all day in a garden looking knackered, and then disappeared - perhaps a genuine bird? I hadn't heard of this - ring any bells with anyone else? It's certainly not been accepted.

I'm in agreement with CE here - I can't see how the bird breeding up north can realistically be anything other than escapees in the first place, when there's such a complete lack of records from the coast.

LGRE also states there are about 40 (yes, forty) pairs of Eagle Owls in the wild in the UK currently. Make what you like of that statistic - for me, it sounds like a hell of a lot, given the lack of records.

Keith Reeder · Nov 17, 2005

Amarillo said:
I see it the other way round. Obviously if a birds normal range is on the other side of the world, then it must be assumed alien unless proved native.

However, if the bird is resident in neighbouring european countries, especially if these populations are increasing and expanding westwards, then surely it should be assumed that it is a natural colonisation unless proved otherwise?

But by that line of argument we'd be giving carte blanche to anybody who fancied a population of (say) hawk owl or great grey owl in the UK, to just go ahead and start releasing birds into the countryside...

parakeetw3 · Nov 17, 2005

I'm very new to this forum so forgive me if I state something stupid. I watched the most of the Eagle Owl programme on Natural world last night and while it raised some interesting arguments I have a question about ringing. CAn anyone tell me if the Eagle owl that was discovered dead by farmer would have still be electrocuted if it hadnt been ringed with metal after accidentally/allegedly flying into the power cables

Eagle Owls in Yorkshire?? (1 Viewer)

Watch the birdie...

Scouser in exile

Well-known member

Eastern Exile

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Registered User

Well-known member

rydhsys rag Kernow lemmyn!

Well-known member

Well-known member

Watch the birdie...

Well-known member

Well-known member

Mostly Mammals

Well-known member

Well-known member

Watch the birdie...

New member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread