Best CP4500 replacement: Canon A95? (1 Viewer)

The situation:

I own two Nikon CP4500s, one for digiscoping, the other for macros, landscapes, and as an instant spare.

The main camera has a broken body which can be repaired OK. (It's happened before - costs about $AU180 to fit a new plastic body. They should make them out of metal.) So I've been using the spare for the last few months.

The spare CP4500 has a dead CCD. This is the second time this has happened to this camera - but the first time it was under warranty. It will probably cost quite a lot to repair, and it might be cheaper to just buy a second-hand 4500 instead.

But I could get the repairer to mate the body of the spare camera with the electronics of the main camera. That shouldn't cost much at all. I'd still need a spare camera though.

The options:

Seems to me that it's time to move on out of the Coolpix 4500 world. The 4500 hasn't been manufactured for two years, it's only 4MP, and it has terrible shutter lag. Also, the spare camera has failed in exactly the same way twice in two years - Nikon's fault, not mine. (The main camera problems are my fault, though it is a poor design from the point of view of the robustness of the filter thread.)

What's around? Seems like only two: the Kyocera/Contax range, and the Canons.

The Contax/Kyocera option looks interesting but several factors are against it. They are closing up soon, which makes ongoing spares and so on a question mark. They seem to lack the range of photographic control that the CP4500 has. They are in the 3-4MP range, which seems a bit on the light side by modern standards. They may or may not be available here in Australia. They use some stupid non-standard flash card. (Compact Flash is the standard. Anything else is a poor relation.)

That leaves Canon. The A95 should be readily available, takes standard Compact Flash cards (which I already have), is a modern 5MP unit with decent ability to shoot multiple frames (not as good as the Contax/Kyocera units but much better than the 4500) and offers more rather than less photographic control:

* Nine focus spots as against the 4500's five - and that matters quite a lot if you are trying to focus on a corner rather than an edge. Perching birds tend to be diagonal and if you can't focus on the centre for some reason (as often happens) then you want to be able to focus (say) on the upper right corner where the bird's head is.
* Usuable manual focus. (OK, I'll believe that when I try it, but it can't be worse than the 4500's unusably awkward manual focus system.)
* Any-angle screen. Even better than the 4500's swivel screen.
* Only 3X zoom. Doesn't matter. 3X is enough.

The big question is how do you attach it to the scope? I'll obviously need a new adaptor to replace my Swarovski DCA. Presumably the tilt-up Swarovski Digital Camera Base.

Is the Powershot A95 the best option?

Is there an even better Canon to use? I don't really care about the cost - having a good digiscoping camera is important!

Is the Swarovski Digital Camera Base suitable? I don't understand how it copes with the external zoom movement of the Canon cameras, but if the experts here tell me it works, that's good enough for me.

Oh, and can I get one by yesterday? With both my 4500s broken at the moment, I am very keen to move quickly on this.

I have no answers for you Tannin, but I am going to be watching this thread, as I too am looking into another option besides the Coolpix cameras. I use a 990 with my Nikon ED78, and my husband informed me yesterday that he wants to get me a new camera. I'm not gonna question his offer. I know its because he hears me cursing as I either fight with shutter lag, or because I can't see the image in the lcd screen in normal daylight. I'm also interested in how the Canon attaches to scopes with the external zoom. The digiscoped images from the Canon posted in another thread are pretty impressive!

Bev

Tannin said:

Seems to me that it's time to move on out of the Coolpix 4500 world. The 4500 hasn't been manufactured for two years, it's only 4MP, and it has terrible shutter lag. Also, the spare camera has failed in exactly the same way twice in two years - Nikon's fault, not mine. (The main camera problems are my fault, though it is a poor design from the point of view of the robustness of the filter thread.)

What's around? Seems like only two: the Kyocera/Contax range, and the Canons.

The Contax/Kyocera option looks interesting but several factors are against it. They are closing up soon, which makes ongoing spares and so on a question mark. They seem to lack the range of photographic control that the CP4500 has. They are in the 3-4MP range, which seems a bit on the light side by modern standards. They may or may not be available here in Australia. They use some stupid non-standard flash card. (Compact Flash is the standard. Anything else is a poor relation.)

That leaves Canon. The A95 should be readily available, takes standard Compact Flash cards (which I already have), is a modern 5MP unit with decent ability to shoot multiple frames (not as good as the Contax/Kyocera units but much better than the 4500) and offers more rather than less photographic control:

* Nine focus spots as against the 4500's five - and that matters quite a lot if you are trying to focus on a corner rather than an edge. Perching birds tend to be diagonal and if you can't focus on the centre for some reason (as often happens) then you want to be able to focus (say) on the upper right corner where the bird's head is.
* Usuable manual focus. (OK, I'll believe that when I try it, but it can't be worse than the 4500's unusably awkward manual focus system.)
* Any-angle screen. Even better than the 4500's swivel screen.
* Only 3X zoom. Doesn't matter. 3X is enough.

The big question is how do you attach it to the scope? I'll obviously need a new adaptor to replace my Swarovski DCA. Presumably the tilt-up Swarovski Digital Camera Base.

Is the Powershot A95 the best option?

Is there an even better Canon to use? I don't really care about the cost - having a good digiscoping camera is important!

Is the Swarovski Digital Camera Base suitable? I don't understand how it copes with the external zoom movement of the Canon cameras, but if the experts here tell me it works, that's good enough for me.

Oh, and can I get one by yesterday? With both my 4500s broken at the moment, I am very keen to move quickly on this.

Click to expand...

Tannin,

I'm starting to sound like a Canon evangelist, but I really think the A95 is a clear improvement over the CP4500 in most important issues: vignetting, shutter lag and focus control. In addition there are some other nice advantages of the A95 like the battery type (AA-NiMH), excellent battery life, larger display, 5Mpix, focus-assist light etc. I have not tried the Contax/Kyocera models, but I surely would miss some manual controls using them - and the battery life seems to be quite limited. The Powershot A series will soon be replaced with a 5XX-series, which is smaller and faster but uses a memory card other than CF.

Re the adapters. You can continue using your DCA adapter, all you need is a filter adapter tube for the camera and a step-down ring (52mm->28mm). This setup turns the camera's external zoom into internal . It does not increase vignetting, but with bracket-style supports like the DCB or the Zeiss Quick Adapter you can get the camera even closer to the eyepiece - and these are where the freely moving display really shine. I am not sure about the Swaro DCA/B, but with the Zeiss swing-arm you could easily switch the eyepiece without removing the adapter - and then you could take advantage of the wider field of the 20xSW (which I remember you once asked about).

OK - I don't like all the features of the Canon A-series. The build quality and materials are cheaper than in the CP (eg. plastic tripod threads!). The zooming control is wierd (=not continuous). The normal ISO value is only 50 (actually close to 80). There were some limitations in communication between the computer and the camera (does not work as an external drive?). The A-series does not have the BULB exposure, which is sometimes useful in astrophotography. And, of course, the macro capabilities of the A95 can't compete with the Nikon.

I am not saying that the A95 is the best choice for digiscoping now, but it does offer an improvement in many annoyances of the CP4500. In my brief trials the Sony V-series seem also to work very well in terms of vignetting and focusing speed and they have a huge display, but their exposure controls are more limited.

HTH

Ilkka


ps. I attached an image of the A80 with a filter adapter + step down ring. It fits to any CP4500 accessories.

Some comments to Ilkkas reply:
I just got the Canon A95 so i'm quite new on that, but i starting to get a grip on it.
Yes the zoom is “weird” but I don’t se this as a big issue. It’s quite a small step between the steps. I have had no problem attaching my camera to different computers without installing any drivers. Probably a matter of what kind of OS and version you use.
I can’t understand what you mean by “The normal ISO value is only 50”. You have ISO 50, 100, 200 and 400. You have a BULB exposure in manual and Tv mode up to 15 sec. Maybe this is not enough, but it’s there.

There’s I nice feature that allow you to save your custom settings. I also learned a few days ago that you can save the zoom level. So when starting to digiscope you just switch to custom and all your favourite settings are there.

Clas

P.S. I had to test the zoom steps. Theres 7 steps. I took one shot with every step and looked at the exif data. Focal length/35mm equivalent:
8/39, 10/49, 11/54, 14/68, 16/78, 19/92, 23/112. Actually the Focal length is, accourding to Canon, 7.8-23.4 D.S.

Clas,

Thanks for the comments and corrections - I may have confused the BULB thingy between different models (I have borrowed the A75, A80 and A95 from my friends). And I really think what I mentioned as "shortcomings" from the CP4500-user's point of view, are not significant compared to the advantages of the A95.

I can’t understand what you mean by “The normal ISO value is only 50”.

Click to expand...

I meant that in digiscoping fast shutter speeds and high ISO sensitivities are an advantage and usually only the lowest ISO setting is noise-free.
I would have imagined that Canon could already produce a camera with native ISO100 (which itself is quite low IMHO), like many other manufacturers.

Ilkka :t:

That's what I love about Birdforum. Start with a curly question, get fast, helpful answers right away. Thankyou gentlemen! (Especially to you, Ikka.)

Well, I took the bull between the horns today, and bought a Powershot A95. I'll have to wait a few days for the filter adaptor, so for now I'm just tinkering with the camera itself.

Yes, I've given up on the idea of a Swarovski DCB (the big swing-up device), on three grounds:

1: I don't like the way that, apparently, it suction-fits to the body of the scope. That just doesn't sound safe enough for walking around with. (I never take the camera off the scope or fold up the tripod. The key to successful digiscoping is being able to get your first shot off as fast as possible.)

2: I really don't like the idea of taking off the sighting ring. That thing is the key to rapid aquisition of the bird.

3: At around AU$700, it would cost more than the camera! I don't mind spending whatever it takes to get the best, but that's just silly. I could use that money to buy a spare camera, or a new head, or half a carbon fibre tripod.

The next question is do I already have the right size threads on the Swarovski DCA adaptor (the littlle barrel-type one I already use for the Coolpix) to fit onto the Canon adaptor? The Canon one is 52mm. Have to wait and see, I guess. And maybe have to hunt high and low for the extra darn adaptor bits if it's one of the other two sizes!

I'll try to find some time to get to know the camera and (if it seems sensible) start another thread with what I've learned.

Hey! Great news! I Just went to look at the adaptor (which still had the failed Nikon camera on it) and the Nikon is working again! I have no idea why, it was dead as a doornail on Monday afternon.

But it's still time I moved on from the Coolpix generation, so my plan stays the same. Just not quite so much hurry now. And I can use it this weekend while I wait for the Canon lens thread to arrive.

Tannin said:

The next question is do I already have the right size threads on the Swarovski DCA adaptor (the littlle barrel-type one I already use for the Coolpix) to fit onto the Canon adaptor? The Canon one is 52mm. Have to wait and see, I guess. And maybe have to hunt high and low for the extra darn adaptor bits if it's one of the other two sizes.

Click to expand...

Your DCA-barrel has 28mm outer threads. Now you have two options for (maybe more?) Canon adapter-tubes that attach to the bayonet of the camera body: 52mm, which accepts normal filters from the SLRs - and a 37mm model, which does not block the optical finder (or the flash) and should not even limit the field-of-view. For digiscoping purposes you can use either (see eg. http://www.lensmateonline.com/A80adapter.htm). In addition to this you need a step-down ring (outer 52mm -> inner 28mm or 37->28mm), which are not *very* common but surely available from various sources (eg. http://www.heliopan.de/startpre.html).

Good luck,

Ilkka

Gahhh ....

I should be better organised. I just spent ~ an hour looking for the other two step-down rings that came with my Swarovski adaptor. I've been using the 28mm one for the Coolpix, but it came with 3: 28mm and two others. I found one of them: it's 43mm. Can't find the other. Maybe it's 52 mm and I don't have to buy one?

I know I saw them just the other day.

Gahh ....

OK - I get it! The DCA barrel has separate "plates" that you can screw to the camera. If this is the case and can you find the 52mm ring, it should fit directly to the Canon adapter and you don't need a special step-down ring. :t:

Ilkka

For Tannin,

The DCA originally didn't come with the 52mm step-down ring, it was included later on at no extra cost.

Cheers,

Thanks Aleix. I know my adaptor came with three step-down rings, so I guess the 52mm is the missing one. It's in the house somewhere.

sigh

DCA came with 28mm, 37mm, 43mm, so I think you lost the 37mm !

Thanks Sky. You just saved me turning the whole house upside down. Really! I might have wasted 6 or 8 hours doing that.

I'll see if I can find someone to make the part for me. Might be easier than messing around trying to order one ready-made. I saw a link somewhere (in this thread) to a supplier who stocks them, but it's probably easier to get one made than to mess about with overseas mail order. But I'll Google it first, just in case.

clascronlund said:

Some comments to Ilkkas reply:
I just got the Canon A95 so i'm quite new on that, but i starting to get a grip on it.
Yes the zoom is “weird” but I don’t se this as a big issue. It’s quite a small step between the steps. I have had no problem attaching my camera to different computers without installing any drivers. Probably a matter of what kind of OS and version you use.
I can’t understand what you mean by “The normal ISO value is only 50”. You have ISO 50, 100, 200 and 400. You have a BULB exposure in manual and Tv mode up to 15 sec. Maybe this is not enough, but it’s there.

There’s I nice feature that allow you to save your custom settings. I also learned a few days ago that you can save the zoom level. So when starting to digiscope you just switch to custom and all your favourite settings are there.


Clas

P.S. I had to test the zoom steps. Theres 7 steps. I took one shot with every step and looked at the exif data. Focal length/35mm equivalent:
8/39, 10/49, 11/54, 14/68, 16/78, 19/92, 23/112. Actually the Focal length is, accourding to Canon, 7.8-23.4 D.S.

Click to expand...

Hi Clas
As another new A95 user I, and many others no doubt, would very much like to know how you managed to save the zoom position into mode C.

many thanks

john-henry

It was just a good luck that i find it out, how to save the zoom setting.
First I set the zoom to the desired level (and everythig else you want to save).
Next push the MENU button.
In the left column, go all the way down to "C Save settings".
Push the SET button.
You have to be aware that you can only do this in the C, M, Av, Tv, P mode.

/Clas

clascronlund said:

It was just a good luck that i find it out, how to save the zoom setting.
First I set the zoom to the desired level (and everythig else you want to save).
Next push the MENU button.
In the left column, go all the way down to "C Save settings".
Push the SET button.
You have to be aware that you can only do this in the C, M, Av, Tv, P mode.

/Clas

Click to expand...

Clas
Thanks for a great tip, just tried it and it's exactly as you say, even when coming back from 'sleep mode'.

Regards
john-henry

Tannin
It may be worth contacting Swarovski direct as although I am not impressed with all their products, their after sales service is IMO excellent. I would not be surprised if they sent the 52 mm FOC. Please update us on your progress as I have an ageing Coolpix and a DCA with the 52mm adapter.......
jim

New user

Hi All I am a complete newby to bird watching and am on the search for my first camera, there seems to be a lot on the forums about the Canon A95 would you think this is a good start for me? I know nothing about lenses so any advice about them also would be appreciated.

Billis said:

Hi All I am a complete newby to bird watching and am on the search for my first camera, there seems to be a lot on the forums about the Canon A95 would you think this is a good start for me? I know nothing about lenses so any advice about them also would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

I was the same Billis but from the advice I got from this forum I went for the A95 and have no regrets. I've only had it a few weeks now but its a cracking camera and I have managed a few good shots just through my bins, now i've got my scope it can only get better.
If you go for this canera you wont be disapointed.

Check out Pixmania, they offered the best deal I could find.