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Is the price of a 7d really justified when compared to a 550d/T2i? (1 Viewer)

mikenott

mikenott

Flawed but improving!
England
Having seen my 20D plunge in value from £800 new to £35 (yes, that was the trade in offer on Saturday!), I wanted to get some views on whether the pace of technology change still justifies purchasing high-end cameras, such as the 7d, or whether it is better to buy the cheaper 550d/T2i and change it more often?

Main use will be birding with a Canon 300 f4 IS and 1.4x teleconverter in Uk type conditions.

It just seems that the 550/T2i has a similar specification to the 7d and are you just paying for a magnesium body vs plastic? There are obviously some benefits to the 7d, but are they justified for non-professional use and the price hike? I also notice an increasing number of good quality photos on the web and in magazines taken with these cheaper Canon's.

By the way, this is sacrilege for me as I tend to be a "tackle tart" and always go for something more than I can actually afford!

Any advice gratefully received

Michael.
 
8 fps, 17 RAW vs. 3.7 fps, 6 RAW
Much more advanced AF system incl. micro adjustments and 19 AF points vs. 9
Much, much better handling IMO (based on comparing my 40D and 350D)

The 7D just seems like a much better wildlife camera than the 550D to me. Roughly in the same way that my 40D is a much better wildlife camera than my 350D. However, that doesn't mean that the latter isn't a good camera, because it is. I have got a number of great wildlife shorts using it, and it is still my macro and landscape camera most of the time (because my 100-400L is generally glued to the 40D).

So yes, as I see it the better AF and not least faster frame rate and deeper buffer justify the higher price of the 7D (together with all the other advances). But that said, I am considering the 550D as a possible macro-camera replacement - if only I could convince the missus...

Thomas
 
mikenott said:
Having seen my 20D plunge in value from £800 new to £35 (yes, that was the trade in offer on Saturdayl.
Click to expand...

If the 20D was was in good nick then that is an atrocious price to be quoted as a trade in. I see lots of these each week in various camera shops around the UK selling at £199.

Personally speaking if the camera was working, there is no way I'd have let it go for £35, I'd have kept in my bag as a spare or even third camera, as you never know when you may need it. Currently have 40D as a third camera for just that reason.

Chris Galvin
 
My view exactly Chris. i would rather give it away to a younger, under-funded birder for that price!

Thomas - take the points over autofocus and burst speed - but are those critically important for birding in particular? And I thought AF is a function shared between the body and lens and many lenses are sold on fast AF?

Terry - your partner is easily pleased on this issue. My wife works on a ratio of 10:1 in her favour! But with two kids at University and superb government assistance (= zero contribution) she may have a point....

Many thanks,

Michael.
 
The differences I have identified are (for 550d and then 7d). The ones in red are the ones that i think are important:

Processor : DIGIC 4 vs Dual "DIGIC 4"Continuous Burst Speed: 3.7fps vs 8fps
AF System: 9 AF points vs 19 cross-type AF points
AF Microadjustment: NO vs YES
LCD screen: CV 1,040k dots vs CV II 920k dots
View Finder : Pentamirror (95%) vs Pentaprism (100%)
Focusing Screen: Fixed vs Fixed (Transmissive LCD screen)Movie crop mode: YES vs. NO
Speedlite Transmitter: NO vs YES
Body: SS/polycarbonate/glass fibre vs Magnesium alloy
Size & Weight: 128.8 x 97.3 x 62 mm (530g) vs 148.2 x 110.7 x 73.5mm (820g)

Apologies for the dumb questions, but how will the following affect bird photography in the UK?

Dual Digic 4 (does that mean improved performance - in what way?)
9 vs 19 autofocus points (how many can you realistically use?)
AF microadjustment?
Transmissive pentaprism LCD screen (does this mean that the viewfinder shows a copy of the LCD screen rather than the actual image (as per Lumix G1?)

Again, grateful for any views

Michael
 
The movie crop mode, giving approx 7x magnification, a feature of the 550d, could be really useful for birding.
However, I haven't seen any results with this function, other than shots of the moon through a low focal length lens.

It isn't HD, but if it is half decent quality, then it would certainly give unrivalled magnification.
 
mikenott said:
Dual Digic 4 (does that mean improved performance - in what way?)
9 vs 19 autofocus points (how many can you realistically use?)
AF microadjustment?
Transmissive pentaprism LCD screen (does this mean that the viewfinder shows a copy of the LCD screen rather than the actual image (as per Lumix G1?)
Click to expand...
  • Having dual processors is what allows the 8 fps - very important.
  • Having 19 points means you're more likely to have one where you want it. Not vitally important. However, the Af system on the 7D is much more advanced and customisable than that of the 550D. Again, that makes it much better for birds, especially in flight.
  • All cameras and lenses are manufactured within certain tolerance limits. Micro-Focus Adjustment allows you to 'tweak' the focussing mechanism to get the two working closer to optimum.
  • The mirror vs prism isn't much of a difference, it makes the viewfinder brighter.
  • There's something else that's important - the ergonomics. It's much easier to change 7D settings thanks to the rear control dial.
 
mikenott said:
Thomas - take the points over autofocus and burst speed - but are those critically important for birding in particular? And I thought AF is a function shared between the body and lens and many lenses are sold on fast AF?

Many thanks,

Michael.
Click to expand...

The only addition to Franks post I have is that the deeper buffer will not only allow you to make full use of the faster frame rate - it will also prevent you from going nuts because the buffer is full when the perfect opportunity comes along B :)

Thomas
 
Given the higher resale value of lenses, one could consider purchasing a lens as an "investment". If you end up not using a lens as much as you planned, you can sell it at a minor loss compared to the original purchase price.

Unlike film cameras, DSLRs are more of an "expense" as opposed to an "investment". When I consider purchasing a DSLR, I roughly estimate how long I would use it for. For a non-pro, the best to hope for is a DSLR that can be used for 3-4 years at which point it should be fully amortized - and most likely obsolete. At the end of a DSLRs life, if it breaks or if the resale value is almost nothing, it wouldn't bother me if I got good use out of it for 3-4 years.

Even though the 550D and 7D have the same sensor, and therefore the same "raw" image quality, there are significant differences in terms of ergonomics. The pentaprism viewfinder with 100% frame coverage and 1.0x magnification, much more user friendly body ergonomics including the quick control wheel and significantly faster burst speed (8fps) and buffer size are probably sufficient to justify the price premium of the 7D over 550D for someone who would use these features. As a birder, these features are very important to me.

Other 7D features that may be important for some photographers are:
- better 19-point AF system with Spot-AF or Zone-AF capabilities
- microfocus adjustment (too bad Canon left this out for 550D)
- 2.3% spot meter (vs 4% on 550D)
- max shutter speed of 1/8000 (vs 1/4000 on 550D)
- flash X-sync of 1/250 (vs 1/200 on 550D)
- wireless multi-flash support
- compact flash support (for really fast or really big storage)
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the help and advice, guys. You managed to put such a compelling arguement together that my wife agreed to let me have one..... and a 300f4 .... and a matched 1,4 multiplier..... and it is sunny. Should be a good weekend!

Bought through Kerso (as recommended on this forum by others). Very good and quick service and good prices.

Just need to trawl through the threads on here and find out teh best settings for teh 7d and bird photography.

Michael
 
To be honest your thread title was a silly question, apart from going pro with 1Ds the 7D is the best Canon job out there, Even the 50D is better than a 550D.
 
Robert L Jarvis said:
To be honest your thread title was a silly question, apart from going pro with 1Ds the 7D is the best Canon job out there, Even the 50D is better than a 550D.
Click to expand...

No it isn't a silly questions - yes the 7D has the better AF system and the dual processor (giving it the faster frame rate), but the 550D is still a very good camera. I've not done a side by side comparisson (I assume from your statement that you have) but I see no reason why the 550D won't delivery very similar image quality, it will just need more care to get the shot. As for whether the extra cost is justified I think that's not an easy one to answer. If you already have a decent lens and can afford the 7D then why not, but if you're looking to start out and on a limited budget then a 550D with a better lens will outperform a 7D with an inferior lens.

I feel that there is a tendancy to dismiss the entry level bodies to quickly. Sure they are a bit slower and smaller (which suits some) than the 50D/7D ranges buy they are also a hell of a lot cheaper too and as such are a great starting point (I guess that's why they are often referred to as entry level)! For the first three years that I shot with Canon I used entry bodies (350D and then 400D). I have since moved on to 'better', more expensive bodies, but still some of my best shots were taken with the 350D & 400D.

So is the extra cost of the 7D over the 550D justified? Only the individual who going to spend their own money on it can decided that one. Is the 7D a better camera than the 550D? Yes, but then from what I've read the 7D is a toy compared to the mkIV...;)
 
That's exactly the reason I asked the question, Postcardcv. There is always a balance between cost and benefits and teh Canon EOS range can be confusing (see debaye on 50D vs 7d). I used to be into serious HiFi where it got to the point where a minor improvement/feature cost as much as the entire system up to that point - and then I realised I couldn't actually hear a difference! I also rememebr a journalist interviewing a risc Arab "prince" in Dubai. He had a garage with 23 amazing supercars in it - and he was moaning that his cousin had 74!! The grass is always greener and someday I may go to teh 1D , or that 500mm f2.8.......

I am sure Robert's comment was simply that if you can afford it, go for it and that (for someone who knows and reads and unstands) teh choice is obvious.

Anyway. I am happily playing with my new toy. Interestingly I am turning off some of the features for what i want to use it for - but at least I have the choice to do that.
 
Mike that is exactly what I meant. You had given no indication of your budget so I presumed it would stretch upwards.

In basic terms the 7D is a lot better than the other but as Postcard said it is a question of affordablility.
 
And look at the two models as more than just cameras... The new generation of EOS cameras with HD video are a super tool for Birders who take photos. You can't go far wrong with any of them. You just need to use them to their full potential.

The video mode gives a whole new dimension, capturing song, and bird behaviour in conditions and situations where a still camera would really struggle, or not really tell the whole story. A photo of a Nightingale singing.. or some HD video? I know which I'd prefer!

The built in mic is surprisingly good too.. I have been able to ditch my zoom h2 recorder in favour of recording bird calls with the video mode, and converting the movie to wav for sound files! The resulting sonograms are fine.

An example only yesterday.. I found 2 Firecrests near my house in gloomy, overcast, dawn conditions. The birds were pretty much impossible to photograph high in the canopy, but I came away with 3 or 4 nice wav file samples of their song, (plus a Goldcrest for comparison!). If I had just a camera, it would have been just a hindrance round my neck all morning.

So, you're getting a really good still photo camera, a fairly good video recorder, and an ok sound recorder in one!
 
I am a little late into this discussion, but, I have been looking to replace my Olympus E-510 and the wifes Canon XS for a few months now. One of the features preventing us from buying a 550D is that you can only set the focus point in certain modes. In all the scene modes the focus point is set automatically, meaning the camera will focus on what ever is closest to the camera. The 7D has the capability of setting a focus point manually, but the price keeps me from buying it. The type of bird photography my wife and I do involves walking and taking pictures, most of the birds we photograph do not sit still long enough for us to adjust settings and get a picture so we are pretty much forced to use the scene modes. The wife does get frustrated with her XS at times as she can only use the "P" mode which does not always capture a balanced shot or the Sports mode which does provide better results.
With my E-510 I can set the focus point on any of the picture modes and it does capture some very good pictures, but it is dated and some of the newer features being offered on the newer cameras are appealing to both of us. Canon is not a consideration as a replacement for either of our cameras at this time solely due to not being able to select focus points, otherwise we would both be using 550D's now.
We are awaiting the release of the next generation of cameras, Nikon seems to be the only camera which will meet our needs. Perhaps the replacement for the D90 or the long rumored Olympus E-5.
I bought and returned a Pentax K7 as I was not satisfied with it, I think I got a defective one, but they too only allow the focus point to be selected in certain modes.
I guess the bottom line is the features offered versus price.
We use the scene modes more often than the manual type modes, so selecting the focus point is a necessity on any camera we will be purchasing. The 550D with lenses was within our budget while the 7D is not.
I am a little confounded as to why camera companies would make cameras that select the focus point.
 
I started this thread, so maybe I should reply...

I ended up buying the 7D. Never regretted it and results have been excellent.

One key feature is the Custom 1, 2 and 3 settings where on the mode select dial (P, A etc ) there are three custome settings which you can program. So C1 for me is my spot focus, single point, sunshine, ap priority whilst c2 is 19 point, nearest focus point, 1/1000 sec mode for birds in flight (actual settings may be different but sort of in that area).

So for general bird photographs I use C1 but can quickly shift to C2 for birds in flight. I think this way to programme could address your concern?

As an owner, I am bound to say it is good, ut it really is!

Michael
 
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