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Sparrowhawks do not take significant numbers of Pigeons (1 Viewer)

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While I've seen Sparrowhawks take Collared Doves a few times I've only ever seen one attack a homing pigeon, unsuccesfully I might add. Peregrines are a different case though, I've seen them take many a wood pigeon as well as Teal,Mallard I've even seen one attack a Pink Footed Goose.
 
The point is not that Sparrowhawks and Peregrines take Pigeons - clearly they do take a few, its that less than 1% of lost Pigeons are attributatble to Sparrowhawks and less than 2% to Peregrines, which leaves 97% of losses to other factors, which sort of weakens argument, made in some quarters to control, raptor populations.
 
Jane Turner said:
The point is not that Sparrowhawks and Peregrines take Pigeons - clearly they do take a few, its that less than 1% of lost Pigeons are attributatble to Sparrowhawks and less than 2% to Peregrines, which leaves 97% of losses to other factors, which sort of weakens argument, made in some quarters to control, raptor populations.
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Certainly for us the problem occurred with one particular Spar over one winter. Never, before or since, did we have anything like that same level of predation. A large percentage of female Spars probably never even try for a pigeon as they are quite large. But eyases will often take on prey that an adult wouldn't attempt. If they are successful then they will keep on killing that prey, and obviously a pigeon loft is simply a huge birdtable for the lucky Spar, so it keeps on coming back again and again.

It wasn't a big deal for us, as our birds were mostly mongrels and simply kept because we liked seeing them about. We did get four chocolate-coloured Rollers once - but that really wasn't a good idea in Peregrine country! Their unusual flight pattern attracted their attention immediately - I think they lasted a week! One of the saddest cases was a Frillback that had been one of the first victims of the Spar. We'd managed to get the pigeon off it, but not before it's neck and back had been partially eaten. Surprisingly, it survived, but it would hardly venture out of the pigeon shed and never again sat on the rooftop with the others.

saluki
 
Jane Turner said:
The point is not that Sparrowhawks and Peregrines take Pigeons - clearly they do take a few, its that less than 1% of lost Pigeons are attributatble to Sparrowhawks and less than 2% to Peregrines, which leaves 97% of losses to other factors, which sort of weakens argument, made in some quarters to control, raptor populations.
Click to expand...
Hi Jane
Have you read the report . Ive just read through it and turned up some interesting facts .The report was about Scottish racing pigeons .One of its main conclusions was . THE STUDY HAS CONCLUDED THE VERY COMPLEX NATURE OF INTERACTIONS BETWEEN RACING PIGEONS ,PEREGRINES AND SPARROWHAWKS AND THE MANY GAPS IN KNOWLEDGE THAT EXISTS SEVERELY CONSTRAIN THE ABILITY TO DERIVE RELIABLE ESTIMATES OF THESE RAPTORS ON SCOTTISH RACING PIGEONS .
It also gives figures for peregrine numbers between 1930 and 1939 a standard period to provide a baseline there where 870 breeding pairs of peregrine in the UK by 1991 there where the highest number of nesting pairs recorded in that century a 47% increase to1283 breeding pairs and in 2002 a further increase of 10% to1402 breeding pairs the population now stands at 161% of the base line study .
You could hardly say that these figures show a species in decline rather the opposite .
This study states that Sparowhawks take 1% of the racing pigeon numbers this equates to some 7000 pigeons per year by no means a few .
Radcliff in 1993 estimated the maximum number of domestic /feral pigeons that might be taken by Peregrines annually could be 222,447 again not just a few .Also Richards and Shrubb et al 2003 the increase and decrease in the pigeon component of a Peregrines diet increases and decreases with the start and finish of the pigeon racing season indicating the importance of the racing pigeon in the Peregrines diet .
The report also concludes that some home lofts do suffer higher losses to Sparowhawks and this is a concern for individual lofts rather than at a national level .
In my opinion the study is flawed as is shown by conclusion 1.7 and afraid the raptors are not quite off the hook yet .
 
If you ever visit Martin Mere WWT you will see a large flock of feral pigeons there, I've been visiting Martin mere for about 12 years now and during this time the approximate numbers of pigeons in the pigeon flock has remained constant even though both Sparrowhawks are resident and Peregrines are common, in Autumn and winter there will be 2 or more Peregrines present dayly. If Peregrines were the ultimate killing machines some people try to make them out to be surely this flock of pigeons would have ceased to exsist long ago?
 
The Tom said:
In my opinion the study is flawed as is shown by conclusion 1.7 and afraid the raptors are not quite off the hook yet .
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Hi Tom,

I am yet to read the study, but will do with these comments firmly in mind. I do however contest this last point - in that I do not believe raptors to be on any kind of hook in the first place. I am yet to be convinced that pigeon racing is sustaining an artificailly inflated raptor population in this country.

On a point of order - the 1% figure quoted here and by jane, does that mean 1% of total pigeon numbers, or 1% of all pigeon mortality.

James
 
Ranger James said:
On a point of order - the 1% figure quoted here and by jane, does that mean 1% of total pigeon numbers, or 1% of all pigeon mortality.

James
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I quote from the report:

"Overall reported losses to sparrowhawks represented around 1% of the Scottish racing pigeon population, but varied regionally and at individual lofts (zero to four birds per loft). Substantiated and probable losses were even lower. Management of sparrowhawks, therefore, should be directed at the level of the individual loft with the deployment of deterrent techniques."

I hope that answers your point.

The full report is available at (beware this is a 2 MB download) http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/PIGEONS_RAPTORS_REPORT.pdf
 
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robinm said:
I quote from the report:

"... Management of sparrowhawks, therefore, should be directed at the level of the individual loft with the deployment of deterrent techniques."


The following quotation is taken from The Scottish Homing Union's (SHU)response to the report in question:-

'The SHU is concerned that, after the experimental testing of loft area deterrants was dropped from the research programme, the CSL report now concludes that experimental trials of deterrants in the loft area need to be carried out. As we have stated many times before, our members have tested all known deterrants to destruction. If they worked we would be already using them and so would the gamekeepers at their release pens. As the University of Lancaster review pointed out, the proponents of deterrents should first demonstrate that a particular deterrent has an aversive effect on the target raptor before they suggest a potential real-life application of the technique.

'As we do not even know if any of the proposed deterrents have an aversive effect on the target raptors, it is little more than supposition to state that they might have some potential application in the sparrowhawk and racing pigeon problem. The methods suggested are a combination and permutation of those already tried and failed by pigeon fanciers. Aversion therapies would involve coating all of our birds with chemicals or attaching sprays to them, which would be triggered by an attack to spray the raptor. These are impractical, ludicrous and potentially dangerous suggestions.'

Having tried most of the deterrents myself, I can confirm that they either work for a very limited period, or else don't work at all. As for smearing evil-smelling and tasting chemical substances onto our pigeons' feathers, I believe the RSPCA might just have something to say about the cruelty aspect of this hair-brained notion - and rightly so too!
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The point Antony is that perhaps there is more value in doing something to reduce the 97% of losses that are not due to raptors!
 
The nub of the argument as far as I am concerned is highlighted in the first introductory paragraph:
"For some time the SHU has been concerned over the number of raptor attacks on racing pigeons reported by their members and belives that thier occurance is unacceptably high..."
I do not believe that these losses are unacceptable. If you can't face the possability of losing a bird to a native predator, you simply do not race it.
James
 
Ranger James said:
I do not believe that these losses are unacceptable. If you can't face the possability of losing a bird to a native predator, you simply do not race it.
James
Click to expand...


Absolutely, even if there is a 300% error in the figures which seems unlikely, the pigeon fanciers really should look to dealing with the other 90% of losses.
 
News Report from SNH.

Report shows birds of prey take few pigeons
26/04/2004
Press Release
23rd March 2004
Report shows birds of prey take few pigeons

There is no evidence that birds of prey cause major losses of racing pigeons at lofts or during races, according to a new study funded by Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) and the Scottish Homing Union (SHU). The research report Racing Pigeons – Impact of Raptor Predation, which was produced by Central Science Laboratory (CSL), has found no evidence of major losses of racing pigeons to birds of prey (raptors) and concludes that much more could be done using deterrents and other novel techniques to reduce the small number of successful attacks that do take place.

The study found that 56% of racing pigeons are reported lost annually to all causes, but sparrowhawks - the birds often blamed for major losses - accounted for less that 1%.

The two-year study, which was overseen by a Working Group chaired by Alex Neil MSP, was commissioned to assess the nature and extent of raptor attacks on racing pigeons reported by SHU members, and to investigate ways to reduce any impacts. The CSL researchers worked closely with SHU members, who supplied relevant data on pigeon losses, recoveries of pigeon rings from peregrine eyries, and pigeon carcasses. They found that over half of all lofts reported no losses to sparrowhawks, and less than 1% of pigeons were reported to be taken by sparrowhawks. It also estimated that a minimum of 2% of racing pigeons were taken by peregrines.

Michael Scott, Deputy Chairman of SNH (and a member of the Working Group) commented:
“SNH is grateful to Alex Neil MSP for chairing the Working Group which oversaw this research. SNH is also appreciative of the work of the Scottish Homing Union during the conduct of this research. The Central Science Laboratory has completed an admirable piece of research and has provided a valuable assessment of losses of racing pigeons to a wide range of factors. The estimated losses of racing pigeons to raptors appear to be small. We note that more research is recommended, notably on the causes of straying and on management measures to minimise pigeon losses around lofts”.

The report highlights the very complex nature of factors impacting on racing pigeons and the need for a variety of actions to help safeguard them. Field trials of race deterrents applied to the pigeons to discourage raptor attacks, and a review of previous research, also indicated that some further techniques (such as using mirrors and reflectors) may prove effective in reducing the take of racing pigeons by predators around lofts. Further research is proposed in the report by the Central Science Laboratory to investigate why so many racing pigeons stray and scatter on race routes, and further guidelines could be produced to assist loft owners in the use of deterrents, and on the siting and management of pigeon lofts to reduce risks of predation.
Racing Pigeons – Impact of Raptor Predation is available on the SNH website www.snh.org.uk For more information contact:
Sarah Roe, Press and PR officer SNH Tel: 0131 446 2270; Mobile: 07787 836010

Notes to Editors
· The Scottish sparrowhawk population is estimated at around 7000 pairs and is thought to be stable. The UK sparrowhawk population appears to have declined by 13 per cent since 1994.
· The Scottish peregrine population has declined from 626 (1991) to 544 (2002) pairs. The UK peregrine population is around 1400 pairs.
· There are around 340,000 racing pigeons and approximately 4100 pigeon lofts in Scotland.
· Scottish Natural Heritage is the Government’s statutory advisor in respect of the conservation, enhancement, enjoyment, understanding and sustainable use of the natural heritage.

nirofo.
 
Ranger James said:
The nub of the argument as far as I am concerned is highlighted in the first introductory paragraph:
"For some time the SHU has been concerned over the number of raptor attacks on racing pigeons reported by their members and belives that thier occurance is unacceptably high..."
I do not believe that these losses are unacceptable. If you can't face the possability of losing a bird to a native predator, you simply do not race it.
James
Click to expand...

Living as you do in Exeter, you are just about as far from the problems faced by Scottish pigeon fanciers as it's possible to be without falling into the sea. It therefore amazes me that you can be quite so specific in your views - particularly so as you have only read one side of the story. It seems to me that if you can reach decisions after hearing only half of the evidence, then you could save the British judicial system a fortune by becoming a magistrate. But if you feel that you might just need to hear both sides of the case before making your decision, then allow me to quote another extract from the Scottish Homing Union's response to the CSL report.

'The CSL research tells us nothing we do not already know about sparrowhawks. Previous studies by the Hawk & Owl Trust (Shawyer et al. 2000) and the SHU (1998) established that a significant proportion of lofts in Scotland reported sparrowhawk attacks. In the CSL survey, nearly half of the small sample of 32 lofts reported attacks by sparrowhawks. This compares with 86% of 56 Scottish lofts reporting attacks in the Hawk & Owl Trust survey and 74% of 1,937 lofts in the SHU survey. The problem of sparrowhawk attacks is exhibited at the level of the individual loft and not across whole regions. This fact is acknowledged in the CSL report and it further recommends that management techniques should be targetted at the level of individual lofts. Average levels of losses are meaningless to the fancier suffering repeated attacks by a sparrowhawk.

'The CSL research was limited in its scope and did not fully address one of our specific concerns, which was the level of losses at pigeon lofts reporting attacks. The research has confirmed that the problem is widespread, but the limited sample size and the untargetted nature of the sample means that we have no reliable measure from the report of the level of losses at lofts that suffer from sparrowhawk attacks. We maintain that the frequency of attacks at susceptible lofts can be very high and can result in significant losses. Frequent attacks also bring about a major disturbance in the sanctity of the loft. They change the safe haven of the loft into a hazardous area with a detrimental effect on the homing instinct of the pigeon to return to its home.

'The SHU does not, therefore, accept the conclusion of the CSL report that theoretical deterrents should be experimentally tested to see if they are applicable in the real-life situation of protecting racing pigeons in the loft area. The time has long passed for the testing of theoretical deterrents that have already been proved not to work. If, however, the recommendation were that deterrents should be used in conjunction with Larsen cage trapping at the loft we would see some logic. In those circumstances, if deterrents worked, no sparrowhawk would be trapped and no pigeons would be lost. If deterrents didn't work the sparrowhawk would be trapped.'

So what has the pro-raptor lobby got to lose by allowing Larsen traps to be used in conjunction with deterrents? If the CSL is correct in its findings and the deterrents work, then no sparrowhawks will be trapped. If not, the Scottish Homing Union will have proved its point once and for all!
 
Jane Turner said:
Start to look into what the other causes might be and take steps to reduce them... you are the pigeon expert!
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Now why didn't I think of that? What you don't seem to understand is that wherever we look there always seems to be a raptor at the end of every road we go down. Can I suggest that you might like to have a look at The Royal Pigeon Racing Association's website www.rpra.org and in particular the Raptors/Hawks thread?
 
Ranger James said:
Hi Tom,

I am yet to read the study, but will do with these comments firmly in mind. I do however contest this last point - in that I do not believe raptors to be on any kind of hook in the first place. I am yet to be convinced that pigeon racing is sustaining an artificailly inflated raptor population in this country.

On a point of order - the 1% figure quoted here and by jane, does that mean 1% of total pigeon numbers, or 1% of all pigeon mortality.

James
Click to expand...
Hi James my of the hook quote was just a bit of poetic licence . There is no doubt that the racing pigeon does contribute to the success of the Peregrine as has been shown in the Richards and Shrubb et al 2003 report that states The increase and decrease in the pigeon component of the Peregrines diet coinsides with the start and finish of the racing season indicating THE IMPORTANCE of the racing pigeon as a food supply .
 
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