converters (1 Viewer)

Luke_Herts · Aug 10, 2008

Hi,
I was wondering do converters really make you lose that much sharpness. I have been told that 1.4x aren't too bad but the 2x lose sharpness and detail.
Is this true as it is only a £1 difference where i am looking. I would be using it with a sigma 170-500mm and a tamron 90mm f/2.8 macro.
Thanks,
Luke

IanF · Aug 11, 2008

Yep! It's true. I'd steer clear of the 2x converter - in addition to the loss of sharpness you also lose 2 f-stops as less light enters the camera sensor. Even the 1.4x loses 1 f-stop.

Some converters are better than others a well and image quality will be noticeably worse when the converter is used with a zoom lens. They're more suited to use with a prime lens with which loos of quality s barely noticeable.

Roy C · Aug 11, 2008

I agree with Ian - steer clear of a 2x. Not sure of the Image quality you will get with a 1.4tc and your lens, see if you can get a reply from someone who has the same lens.

I4ani · Aug 11, 2008

Suggest you also check that your chosen TC actually fits your lens, and that you are happy with any limitations it might put on your camera functions ie Auto focus, metering etc
regards I4ani.

Luke_Herts · Aug 11, 2008

Thanks people. Done some more research and will go for the 1.4x
Thanks,
Luke

Overread · Aug 11, 2008

Well 1.4times TCs generaly (as has been said) work very well with a good lose/gain exchange. - the 2TC tend to be worth only on primes - with zooms they tend to lose more quality than is ideal many a time (though not always - it depends on the lens). So out of your two lenses I would be happy using a 2* only on the macro - the zoom I would expect to lose a lot of light and quality - however you would probably get good results for a websized shot - fullsize and you will notice the difference (I have seen some good results with the bigma - sigma 50-50mm and a 2* though at f18 and f22 - so very bright days)

mike from ebbw · Aug 11, 2008

Hi Luke,
To give you some idea of what you can expect here is a cropped shot of a Redstart taken on my old 300d with a Sigma 135-400mm and Kenko 1.4x. :t:

Overread · Aug 11, 2008

psst - mike - any chance we can get a 100% crop from that shot - its better to show 100% crops when showing for lens quality as its very easy to get a shot look sharp at websizes when the original is nothing like sharp.
Nothing wrong in that at all, but it gives a better idea of what overall quality is like

edit:
Shot with a canon 70-200mm with canon 1.4 and canon 2 times teleconverters at full extension - which means 560mm + crop sensor body used so a little extra apparent range from that. Also shot out of a window supported on a beanbag - so stable shooting base.
f5.6, ISO 400, 1/1250sec.
And I suspect with better photography skills that a better result can be obtained.

Overread · Aug 12, 2008

sorry for double post but it appears you can only add one attachment per post - and no img codes.
Here is a 100% crop from the above - this has been edited as normal from RAW and then levels, curves, saturation, noise removal and unsharpen mask applied as well.
Acceptable sharpness and not too bad on the lighting needed - though not ideal, not impossible to work with

IanF · Aug 12, 2008

Overread said:
sorry for double post but it appears you can only add one attachment per post - and no img codes.
...............

Strange - actually you can add five attachments per post!

Overread · Aug 12, 2008

Just experimented and yes it appears you can = the reason mine was failing is that when I have resized versions of the same photo on my computer I put them into a different folder - allowing each one to keep its original file name - which means they are all called the same thing. So the uploader was thinking I was adding the same file, so just swapped the old for the new

Roy C · Aug 12, 2008

Overread said:
sorry for double post but it appears you can only add one attachment per post - and no img codes.
Here is a 100% crop from the above - this has been edited as normal from RAW and then levels, curves, saturation, noise removal and unsharpen mask applied as well.
Acceptable sharpness and not too bad on the lighting needed - though not ideal, not impossible to work with

Hopefully this will be taken as constructive criticism 'Overread' but to me your shot looks very soft and lacking detail in the bird which is no more than I would expect from the combo used. It would be ok as a record shot but the combo is not really useful in the field if you are after good detailed images. Although I guess depends on what you want out of a photo.

IMO there are very few Canon lenses that you can use with a converter for constantly good bird images. Those that spring to mind are the super tele's, 500 f4 and 600 f4 plus the 300mm f2.8. A few of the Sigma super tele's are also pretty good but that is about it as far as I can see.

Attached is some shots I took for a bit of fun with the 400mm f5.6 + 1.4tc + 2x tc (1120 mm without the crop factor). Yes, it is possible to get reasonable record shots with staked tc's but it is not something that I would would advocate using in the field. I am rarely satisfied with my shots with just the 1.4tc let alone a 2x or stacked tc's

mike from ebbw · Aug 12, 2008

Overread said:
psst - mike - any chance we can get a 100% crop from that shot - its better to show 100% crops when showing for lens quality as its very easy to get a shot look sharp at websizes when the original is nothing like sharp.
Nothing wrong in that at all, but it gives a better idea of what overall quality is like

edit:
Shot with a canon 70-200mm with canon 1.4 and canon 2 times teleconverters at full extension - which means 560mm + crop sensor body used so a little extra apparent range from that. Also shot out of a window supported on a beanbag - so stable shooting base.
f5.6, ISO 400, 1/1250sec.
And I suspect with better photography skills that a better result can be obtained.

Hi Overead.

Here is both the full uncropped pic and a pretty heavy cropped version.Both shots have been downsized to upload to here and a little unsharp mask applied.

Overread · Aug 13, 2008

Roy C said:
Hopefully this will be taken as constructive criticism 'Overread' but to me your shot looks very soft and lacking detail in the bird which is no more than I would expect from the combo used. It would be ok as a record shot but the combo is not really useful in the field if you are after good detailed images. Although I guess depends on what you want out of a photo.

IMO there are very few Canon lenses that you can use with a converter for constantly good bird images. Those that spring to mind are the super tele's, 500 f4 and 600 f4 plus the 300mm f2.8. A few of the Sigma super tele's are also pretty good but that is about it as far as I can see.

Attached is some shots I took for a bit of fun with the 400mm f5.6 + 1.4tc + 2x tc (1120 mm without the crop factor). Yes, it is possible to get reasonable record shots with staked tc's but it is not something that I would would advocate using in the field. I am rarely satisfied with my shots with just the 1.4tc let alone a 2x or stacked tc's

Very true - the primes do work far far better with the TCs than the zooms do - think you can also add the canon 200mm prime (the new one) to that list of good lenses to use as well.
I know this is not a real birding lens - its never going to be (its actually for zoos and parks and the like where things are closer) but its usable to get the shot where as without all you would get is a dot. Certainly a 300mm f2.8 +2TC or 500/600mm lens is going to outperform it certainly -- but at cost they are around double the cost of the 70-200mm

Highcountry · Aug 21, 2008

I have played with the Canon 1.4x on my 70-200mm f4 IS lens and have been extremely pleased with the results. Also used the 1.4x on my 500mm f4 with little if any IQ loss in RAW. I also used a Kenko Pro 300 1.4x with Nikon D200 and 80-400mm which produced stunning photos.

Here's a photo with my Canon zoom and the 1.4x:

mjmw · Aug 21, 2008

Roy C said:
IMO there are very few Canon lenses that you can use with a converter for constantly good bird images. Those that spring to mind are the super tele's, 500 f4 and 600 f4 plus the 300mm f2.8. A few of the Sigma super tele's are also pretty good but that is about it as far as I can see.

I would have put the 70-200/2.8 on that list Roy...it has replaced the 400/5.6 in my typical camera bag because it works so well with the 2x...maybe its because my standards are lower than everyone else's on image quality

mjmw · Aug 21, 2008

OK, just back from outside. I grabbed the 70-200/2.8, bolted on a 2x and strapped them both to a 40D (a camera I am not used to using). I then completely failed to find any birds, so photographed some odonata, again something I am not used to doing. Note that it is midday here, so this is in full sun (not very nice light at all!).

First image should be the image 'off the camera', run through my default Lightroom settings and resized to 800px. The second a closer crop. No, the image isn't critically sharp - I was handholding and the wind is blowing - but I think it is perfectly acceptable for what I was doing...

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