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Birding/Twitching and Global warming

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Old Tuesday 15th October 2019, 08:56   #51
Ries
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I've looked into longer distance travel by train in Europe, but as prices are still quite much higher than flying, let alone the traveling time of course, it's not unexpected people will keep taking planes. Once the race to the bottom of flying prices slows down/ends because of carbon emission taxes, then more people will take the shift, myself included. I do like long train journeys but when time and money are slim, what do you do? Yep, fly.

I think in the future we'll see a contraction of our "big open world". Same as production in China, and transport to here, becomes more expensive than producing locally. The same way flying all over the world will become more expensive and people will stay more local. There transport will go faster: bullet trains, e-bikes, electric automated cars maybe even in vacuum tubes. So national and continental travel will get faster and easier but intercontinental travel will be expensive and more time-consuming so less people will do that. Until a new generation of planes, zero emission electric powered, comes along and becomes more and more affordable. Just another ebb and flow.
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Old Tuesday 15th October 2019, 19:29   #52
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This thread has swept the board in terms of gold medals awarded in the categories of mental gymnastics and deflection.
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 06:59   #53
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This thread has swept the board in terms of gold medals awarded in the categories of mental gymnastics and deflection.
I have decided never to own a private jet and I believe that I can claim credit for that because I have previously wanted one.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50061569

All the best
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 08:51   #54
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Wolfie, you missed one important thing.....are you a Wolves supporter? If so you are indeed a.....

Laurie
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 11:18   #55
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Wolfie, you missed one important thing.....are you a Wolves supporter? If so you are indeed a.....

Laurie
Hi Laurie

As the song goes.....”I’d rather be a dingle than a ****”

Only joking of course my fellow Black Country mon!
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 13:39   #56
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I no longer twitch and I feel no guilt whatsoever, about my annual or often biannual, birding trips.

Maybe we should cancel Birdfair as it encourages people to travel long distances to the event?
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 14:01   #57
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Here's how I justify enjoying my life;

Use public transport to work
Car share for birding
Reduced meat eating, been full vegetarian since February
Try to buy ethical products from ethical companies

And most importantly, have no kids

The way I see it, we can live like paupers and keep breeding, or manage the population and have enriched lives.

Or most likely, continue as we are and destroy the planet
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 15:12   #58
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Here's how I justify enjoying my life;

Use public transport to work
Car share for birding
Reduced meat eating, been full vegetarian since February
Try to buy ethical products from ethical companies

And most importantly, have no kids

The way I see it, we can live like paupers and keep breeding, or manage the population and have enriched lives.

Or most likely, continue as we are and destroy the planet
I like that outlook Trystan!
Can't say I meet those standards but fair play.
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 17:24   #59
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Originally Posted by Trystan View Post
Here's how I justify enjoying my life;

Use public transport to work
Car share for birding
Reduced meat eating, been full vegetarian since February
Try to buy ethical products from ethical companies

And most importantly, have no kids

The way I see it, we can live like paupers and keep breeding, or manage the population and have enriched lives.

Or most likely, continue as we are and destroy the planet
I make no apologies for having two, wonderful children.

Would the people on here who suggest limiting family size, feel comfortable in promoting the sterilisation of poor families in the so called 'third World' who habitually knock ot 4-8 kids that they can't afford, .....thought not.

Poor countries, with massive populations, fuel the rise in pollution through garbage in the ocean to the burning of fossil fuels. My occasional flight and two children, don't make a ripple in this ocean of excess.
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 18:13   #60
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Poor countries, with massive populations, fuel the rise in pollution through garbage in the ocean to the burning of fossil fuels. My occasional flight and two children, don't make a ripple in this ocean of excess.
Here is a map showing CO2 emissions per capita: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/c...ons-per-capita

Perhaps you might want to revise your conclusions?
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 18:59   #61
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I make no apologies for having two, wonderful children.

Would the people on here who suggest limiting family size, feel comfortable in promoting the sterilisation of poor families in the so called 'third World' who habitually knock ot 4-8 kids that they can't afford, .....thought not.

Poor countries, with massive populations, fuel the rise in pollution through garbage in the ocean to the burning of fossil fuels. My occasional flight and two children, don't make a ripple in this ocean of excess.
You shouldn't have to make apologies for the number of children you have, this is about what needs to happen going forward because we are aware of the problems in the world.

People who want large families should consider adopting. Try to give a better life to a child who may otherwise be let down by an under resourced and over worked social system
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 19:22   #62
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Originally Posted by cajanuma View Post
Here is a map showing CO2 emissions per capita: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/c...ons-per-capita

Perhaps you might want to revise your conclusions?
Maybe not a popular opinion but this is made worse by immigration as economic migrants and those fleeing war and persecution move from countries where large families are the norm, bringing that culture to countries whose populations might otherwise be decreasing.

Those immigrants then become individuals who are part of the higher emissions per capita group while the vacated countries continue to breed future migrants.
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 19:24   #63
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Originally Posted by Trystan View Post
Here's how I justify enjoying my life;

Use public transport to work
Car share for birding
Reduced meat eating, been full vegetarian since February
Try to buy ethical products from ethical companies

And most importantly, have no kids

The way I see it, we can live like paupers and keep breeding, or manage the population and have enriched lives.

Or most likely, continue as we are and destroy the planet
Thats pretty much what I do Rob other than I have 2 boys and public transport would be a mare in this part of Wales. My contract also states and need to have access to a car.

One +ve. a lot of councils are doing now is agile working. Being able to work from home takes away the need to use any transport on occasion.

Rich
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 20:01   #64
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Here is a map showing CO2 emissions per capita: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/c...ons-per-capita

Perhaps you might want to revise your conclusions?
But it's not just C02 emissions is it, it's the millions of tons of plastic that gets dumped in to the ocean by the likes of India and Indonesia and the untold damage being done everywhere, on every level by the Chinese.

I've stood on pristine beaches in places like Bali and had plastic bags, wrapping around my ankles in the water and seen boat crews, dumping bins full of garbage, straight over the side in to the sea.

No, I dodn't want to change my opinions.
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 21:31   #65
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This is as good a place as any to inject potential controversy ....

In the realm of unintended consequences, what if the ever-advancing awareness and doctrines of sensitivity to native cultures became a great opportunity for those who should know better, to relax, back off, and look the other way when the less developed jurisdictions accept huge volumes of trash and pollutants into their areas, in return for political favors?
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 21:36   #66
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But it's not just C02 emissions is it, it's the millions of tons of plastic that gets dumped in to the ocean by the likes of India and Indonesia and the untold damage being done everywhere, on every level by the Chinese.

I've stood on pristine beaches in places like Bali and had plastic bags, wrapping around my ankles in the water and seen boat crews, dumping bins full of garbage, straight over the side in to the sea.

No, I dodn't want to change my opinions.
The map shown was CO2 emissions, not plastic pollution. The thread title is Global Warming ...



Loads of damage being done in lots of different ways though, tis true ... (mostly started off by the processes and changes wrought about by the industrial revolution started in the Western World)
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2019, 22:16   #67
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I have decided never to own a private jet and I believe that I can claim credit for that because I have previously wanted one.....
Then you are basically doing what many Western politicians say on the larger scale. They don't build roads, car parks, factories and basically anything - implying this is care of the environment. In fact it is simply an excuse for poor governance.

In the 20th century, industrial pollution was considered a danger to humanity and all life on Earth. It was tackled - the West cleaned up rivers and air but did not revert to the pre-industrial civilization. It kept the factories but made them clean. Here is a big difference from the current bunch of activists and politicians. Today this is completely the opposite. The unrealistic aim to make people accept poverty and low living standards because of environmental guilt. First, the society will shun it. Second, Asia and other continents will simply make up for the CO2 intake. Third - it is not even the most effective way to keep climate from warming.
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Old Thursday 17th October 2019, 10:05   #68
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You could make a case for the flights that i/we/you take for birding trips are scheduled ones that run anyway - unlike a private jet...

Better off being as full as possible rather than empty seats?

Millions of unscheduled carbon journeys are the real problem imo. Same for spare seats in commuter cars or twitchers vehicles perhaps...

The way billions of people live their lives as consumers far outweighs air travel imho - birders/naturalists are ambassadors - that is why i have NO time for ppl like David Attenborough finger-wagging (in addition to anti-Brexit rubbish) as he has done very well out of travelling the not so Blue Planet thank you very much!

This morning in that London place we have a coupla misguided Extinky rebels standing on Tube trains pontificating. I thought these idiots wanted ppl to use public travel? Thankfully common sense prevailed and irate commuters dragged one Nancy Boy off and gave him a gentle kicking and a few dry slaps - message received loud n clear

Good birding -

Laurie
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Old Thursday 17th October 2019, 15:11   #69
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I have decided never to own a private jet and I believe that I can claim credit for that because I have previously wanted one.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50061569
Quote:
Originally Posted by jurek View Post
Then you are basically doing what many Western politicians say on the larger scale. They don't build roads, car parks, factories and basically anything - implying this is care of the environment. In fact it is simply an excuse for poor governance.

In the 20th century, industrial pollution was considered a danger to humanity and all life on Earth. It was tackled - the West cleaned up rivers and air but did not revert to the pre-industrial civilization. It kept the factories but made them clean. Here is a big difference from the current bunch of activists and politicians. Today this is completely the opposite. The unrealistic aim to make people accept poverty and low living standards because of environmental guilt. First, the society will shun it. Second, Asia and other continents will simply make up for the CO2 intake. Third - it is not even the most effective way to keep climate from warming.
Apologies. Desire to own a private jet resurrected.

All the best
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Old Friday 18th October 2019, 12:37   #70
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This morning in that London place we have a coupla misguided Extinky rebels standing on Tube trains pontificating. I thought these idiots wanted ppl to use public travel? Thankfully common sense prevailed and irate commuters dragged one Nancy Boy off and gave him a gentle kicking and a few dry slaps - message received loud n clear

Good birding -

Laurie
The thing about that Laurie, is that the vast majority of XR people were against what those people did, and they were told by other XR people not to do it. But of course that's what the media jumped on. Just like they jump on twitchers all being idiots if one twitcher does something naughty at a twitch. All twitchers run through everyone's flowerbeds and scare exhausted birds to death right?
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Old Friday 18th October 2019, 13:41   #71
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The thing about that Laurie, is that the vast majority of XR people were against what those people did, and they were told by other XR people not to do it. But of course that's what the media jumped on. Just like they jump on twitchers all being idiots if one twitcher does something naughty at a twitch. All twitchers run through everyone's flowerbeds and scare exhausted birds to death right?
The real difference is that twitchers are just individuals pursuing a hobby and "Extinction Rebellion" has been content until now to claim it's a movement with a shedload of members. Suddenly it claims it isn't, its just a lot of like-minded people (and that most of them were totally opposed to such action, which is easy to say after the fact) - that's anarchy in the UK, which wasn't all that great as a single, let alone in this case.

I'd also comment that almost invariably twitchers self-police and manage to resolve matters peacefully (though perhaps with a bit of forceful language). If the outcome in the Underground was different, that's just what happens down in a tube station at midnight.

John
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Old Friday 18th October 2019, 13:56   #72
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The real difference is that twitchers are just individuals pursuing a hobby and "Extinction Rebellion" has been content until now to claim it's a movement with a shedload of members. Suddenly it claims it isn't, its just a lot of like-minded people (and that most of them were totally opposed to such action, which is easy to say after the fact) - that's anarchy in the UK, which wasn't all that great as a single, let alone in this case.

I'd also comment that almost invariably twitchers self-police and manage to resolve matters peacefully (though perhaps with a bit of forceful language). If the outcome in the Underground was different, that's just what happens down in a tube station at midnight.

John
and it was really Dangerous, to go Up the ladder to the roof. What if the train had gone Under the bridge?
But I don't think it was OK, Commuter to beat him up. That was Complete Madness. :)
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Old Friday 18th October 2019, 15:06   #73
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But I don't think it was OK, Commuter to beat him up. That was Complete Madness. :)
It's an inevitable consequence of a police force that seems to be under orders to tolerate disruption of ordinary working peoples' lives by trustafarian art students, unemployable crusties and retired geography teachers. The more this goes on, the more incidents of this nature will happen.

XR has sod all to do with climate change.
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Old Friday 18th October 2019, 16:23   #74
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- that's anarchy in the UK, which wasn't all that great as a single, let alone in this case.

John
That's a matter of opinion
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Old Friday 18th October 2019, 18:50   #75
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The unrealistic aim to make people accept poverty and low living standards because of environmental guilt. First, the society will shun it. Second, Asia and other continents will simply make up for the CO2 intake. Third - it is not even the most effective way to keep climate from warming.
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Originally Posted by rollingthunder View Post
This morning in that London place we have a coupla misguided Extinky rebels standing on Tube trains pontificating. I thought these idiots wanted ppl to use public travel? Thankfully common sense prevailed and irate commuters dragged one Nancy Boy off and gave him a gentle kicking and a few dry slaps - message received loud n clear
Wow, I did not think this will happen so fast.
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