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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 14:05   #176
Holger Merlitz
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Originally Posted by jan van daalen View Post
OK, the first findings are known.
Coming Wednesday I'll pick it up and place all the pics from the inside/components.

The reflective side of the SP prism is made longer to make it fit into the smaller housing (normal SP's are to bulky);
No plastic inside;
Sturdy built, but basic;
Focus lens on objective side;
No signs of the regular well known Oriëntal components.

If there are further questions, please make them so I can get the answers coming Wednesday.
Jan
Very interesting, Jan, thanks for that! So they have replaced the eyepiece-internal-focusing with the now common objective focusing lens! I am curious to learn more ....

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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 14:07   #177
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Thanks very much, Jan! You've done us a great service.

Besides the Uppendahl prism it looks like the eyepiece focuser of the original has also been dropped. It appears that little if anything of the original optical design has been retained in the Retrovid, or maybe we should call it the Pseudovid.

I would be interested in knowing which way the focusing lens moves when changing the focus from near to far. For everything else, like the number of fixed elements in the objective and the eyepiece design, the photos should tell us everything.

Henry

Last edited by Troubador : Thursday 9th January 2020 at 14:22.
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 14:22   #178
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It appears that little if anything of the original optical design has been retained in the Retrovid, or maybe we should call it the Pseudovid.

Henry
Pseudovid sounds appropriate Henry.

Lee
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 14:25   #179
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Thanks very much, Jan! You've done us a great service.

Besides the Uppendahl prism it looks like the eyepiece focuser of the original has also been dropped. It appears that little if anything of the original optical design has been retained in the Retrovid, or maybe we should call it the Pseudovid.

I would be interested in knowing which way the focusing lens moves when changing the focus from near to far. For everything else, like the number of fixed elements in the objective and the eyepiece design, the photos should tell us everything.

Henry
Hi Henry,

The focus lens runs towards the objective lens.

Coming Wednesday I'll know the answer on the other two items.

Jan
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 14:38   #180
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Pseudovid sounds appropriate Henry.

Lee
Lee, I agree that Henry’s name for the new Trinovid is probably more appropriate. I’m also pretty sure that it’s not going to make one iota of difference to the sales if the binocular is good, which from first reports it seems to be......
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 16:17   #181
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...the Retrovid, or maybe we should call it the Pseudovid...
Or, to retain both descriptors, the Pseudoretrovid.

--AP
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 16:48   #182
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Originally Posted by jan van daalen View Post
The reflective side of the SP prism is made longer to make it fit into the smaller housing (normal SP's are to bulky);
No plastic inside;
Sturdy built, but basic;
Focus lens on objective side;
No signs of the regular well known Oriëntal components.
Thanks Jan. That's pretty interesting stuff. So these aren't really "real" Trinovids anymore. Thought so after it became clear that they don't use Uppendahl prisms. Also explains why the 8x40 and the 10x40 seem to have a flatter field than I remembered from the old, "real" Trinovid which I know quite well.

Some questions / thoughts:

- Why do they claim the Trinovid is only "splashproof" rather than waterproof? They apparently changed the focusing mechanism, so I can't see any reason why this binocular shouldn't be waterproof.

- What do you mean by "Sturdy built, but basic"? Can you elaborate on this point a bit?

- No signs of "the regular well known Oriëntal components" - does that imply that they really make all the components in Portugal? Hard to answer, still, that's an interesting question, I think.

Thanks again. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of the construction next week ...

Hermann
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 16:59   #183
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Thanks Jan. That's pretty interesting stuff. So these aren't really "real" Trinovids anymore. Thought so after it became clear that they don't use Uppendahl prisms. Also explains why the 8x40 and the 10x40 seem to have a flatter field than I remembered from the old, "real" Trinovid which I know quite well.

Some questions / thoughts:

- Why do they claim the Trinovid is only "splashproof" rather than waterproof? They apparently changed the focusing mechanism, so I can't see any reason why this binocular shouldn't be waterproof.

- What do you mean by "Sturdy built, but basic"? Can you elaborate on this point a bit?

- No signs of "the regular well known Oriëntal components" - does that imply that they really make all the components in Portugal? Hard to answer, still, that's an interesting question, I think.

Thanks again. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of the construction next week ...

Hermann
Hi Hermann,

In Holland we only have one, AFAIK, qualified repair institute and this one repairs every brand and is longer in business then I am.
He reckognizes OEM made components and is honest about it.

I can only repeat his words, but I'll ask him Wednesday.

Jan
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 17:02   #184
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What's the antidote for 'Retrovirus'?

Pseudovid!

;-)
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 17:44   #185
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What's the antidote for 'Retrovirus'?

Pseudovid!

;-)
Whoa, steady WD!
Thats almost English humour

Lee
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 17:49   #186
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Thank you Jan.
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 21:21   #187
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You're all welcome.

Since English is not my native language, I could have (unintentionally) "insulted" some people who also live on this planet. It turns out that POS (Point Of Sale material) is also known as Piece Of Sh** and the term Oriëntal is a term some Rednecks seem to use where others use the phrase Far East.
I really didn't had any clue.

Reading the manual/warranty it states that this Trinovid has a warranty for ten years on material defects and five years on the labour costs, but NOT warranted is defects on the leather armoring, eyecups and all other accessoires like ocular- and objective caps, bags and straps.

Jan

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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 21:25   #188
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Interesting in post #150 to see the combination of negative focussing elements and left-handed thread for clockwise to infinity focussing.

John
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 21:37   #189
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OK, the first findings are known.

..
The reflective side of the SP prism is made longer to make it fit into the smaller housing (normal SP's are to bulky);
Jan,

many thanks for the interesting information. I am not so familiar with SP prisms, so what does that mean? Is it a special variant of SP? Why isn't it used in other binoculars, slim binoculars look nice.

Thomas
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 22:42   #190
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Jan,

many thanks for the interesting information. I am not so familiar with SP prisms, so what does that mean? Is it a special variant of SP? Why isn't it used in other binoculars, slim binoculars look nice.

Thomas
Hi Thomas,

I don't have any clue.
Just what he told me. It looked different from "normal" SP's.

Jan
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Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 23:02   #191
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Excellent thread folks, I'm really enjoying the technical discussion! I particularly find it interesting that Leica states only splash-proof, but it is implied further up in the thread that the construction is "typical/modern" if you will, and that that should permit waterproof sealing. Jan, would it be possible to inquire the opinion of your friend regarding this - was there any gasketing/sealing, or is there a clear reason why it couldn't have been waterproofed?

Many thanks again!
Josh
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Old Friday 10th January 2020, 09:28   #192
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What's the antidote for 'Retrovirus'?

Pseudovid!

;-)
I like it!

Too bad it's not available "over the counter"
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Old Friday 10th January 2020, 09:34   #193
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Pseudovid sounds appropriate Henry.

Lee
Well, I will continue using the name Retrovid, with all due respect.

Three reasons:

1. I invented that name, so of course I am not going to abandon it (that‘s the weakest reason)

2. Pseudovid in the English language sounds almost like Sudoko (if the latter is properly pronounced, with the emphasis on the first syllable), and that creates unwelcome confusion

3. „Pseudo“ has a negative connotation. We would be calling it „Pseudo“ just because the outside looks „real“, but the inside is not what you expect; that seems a bit harsh, does it not, esp. if performance is perhaps (needs to be confirmed!!!) amazingly good?

Let‘s see what Jan comes back with and reconsider then.

juts my 2 ct.
Canip

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Old Friday 10th January 2020, 10:41   #194
jan van daalen
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Well, I will continue using the name Retrovid, with all due respect.

Three reasons:

1. I invented that name, so of course I am not going to abandon it (that‘s the weakest reason)

2. Pseudovid in the English language sounds almost like Sudoko (if the latter is properly pronounced, with the emphasis on the first syllable), and that creates unwelcome confusion

3. „Pseudo“ has a negative connotation. We would be calling it „Pseudo“ just because the outside looks „real“, but the inside is not what you expect; that seems a bit harsh, does it not, esp. if performance is perhaps (needs to be confirmed!!!) amazingly good?

Let‘s see what Jan comes back with and reconsider then.

juts my 2 ct.
Canip
I would go for the Retrovid version also
I think that "basic built" also includes the lack of waterproofness/not nitrogene filled. At least they were fair about that. The Originals weren't either.

Jan
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Old Friday 10th January 2020, 12:33   #195
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Hi Canip,

One could argue that Pseudovid may be technically more accurate i.e. an imitation of something else - and often a lesser one
(and if so, if one was feeling particularly harsh, then perhaps a case could even be made for something such as Ersatzvid or Fauxvid!)

However, besides the lack of a negative inference, the big advantage of Retrovid is that it has an immediate association with the past - in this instance the original Leitz Trinovid
Which shows the aptness of the term that you coined


John

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Old Friday 10th January 2020, 13:12   #196
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The Retrovid is sealed on the ocular and objective side but, like the Original, the bridge ax is not watertight and can/will leak when submerged.
That's what I thought. Should not be that much of a problem in real life actually. Not suitable for use in the bathtub though ...

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All parts are made of metal/glass and nothing is glued. Heaven for the repair department.
Good. I don't like the use of plastics (and glue) at all. I'm sure there are plenty of binculars around that contain plastic parts ...

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Originally Posted by jan van daalen View Post
I'm curious about its light transmission but that will follow in time.
From my impressions of the 8x40 I'd hazard a guess that transmission will likely be just a bit higher than the Trinovid HD.

Hermann
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Old Friday 10th January 2020, 13:13   #197
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Thanks Jan for all the info you are providing!
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Old Friday 10th January 2020, 13:41   #198
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Jan (post # 194) and John (post # 195),

Tks for your support about not dropping the Retrovid name (is that what they mean be „name-dropping“?).
My post was only half-serious and so was yours, I suppose.

Whether Retrovid is the right name or not, what strikes me is that Leica chose the plain term Trinovid.
Not only does this create confusion with older models, it seems also „counter-intuitive“ to me to sell a Trinovid as an up-market model with a higher price than a „Trinovid HD“ which by its name implies higher performance.

That, combined with the hardly comprehensible decision to only sell via Leica Stores, may hamper sales significantly (I first believed that the exclusivity argument might have some merit, but believe that less and less).
But of course, it‘s Leica‘s business, not mine, so I am sure they must have been thinking hard about that ....
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Old Friday 10th January 2020, 14:06   #199
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The objective is a doublet and behind that a single lens (standard).
The ocular is three lenses of which one is a doublet.

I'm curious about its light transmission but that will follow in time.

Jan
Thanks for the additional information, Jan.

I'm uncertain about the lens count from your description above. Is the total objective group made up of 3 fixed lenses (1 cemented doublet separated by an air space from a singlet) followed by a moving focusing singlet for a total of 4 lenses, or is it a fixed cemented doublet followed by a moving focusing singlet for a total of 3 lenses?

Does the ocular have a total of 3 lenses (1 singlet and 1 cemented doublet) or does it have 3 groups (2 singlets and 1 cemented doublet) for a total of 4 lenses?

Leica's light transmission spec is 88%. I'm looking forward to seeing Gijs's measurements.

Everybody, I didn't consider Psuedovid to be a serious name, but it is a serious criticism of the way these binoculars are being represented by Leica.

Henry

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Old Friday 10th January 2020, 14:10   #200
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Jan (post # 194) and John (post # 195),

Tks for your support about not dropping the Retrovid name (is that what they mean be „name-dropping“?).
My post was only half-serious and so was yours, I suppose.

Whether Retrovid is the right name or not, what strikes me is that Leica chose the plain term Trinovid.
Not only does this create confusion with older models, it seems also „counter-intuitive“ to me to sell a Trinovid as an up-market model with a higher price than a „Trinovid HD“ which by its name implies higher performance.

That, combined with the hardly comprehensible decision to only sell via Leica Stores, may hamper sales significantly (I first believed that the exclusivity argument might have some merit, but believe that less and less).
But of course, it‘s Leica‘s business, not mine, so I am sure they must have been thinking hard about that ....
Hi Canip,

Indeed, the Retrovid name was intended as fun

In defence of Leica.... the first Retrovid had Uppendahls. These were just to expensive (?) so Higher Command decided to go for SP and exclusive sales.
So the circle after Post one is round

Jan
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