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Old Monday 13th January 2020, 03:57   #451
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Originally Posted by Canip View Post
Hi Bill,

So my guess is if ER works for you on the Trinovid HD, it might also work on the Retrovid.

Canip
Thanks for looking into it! The 8x32 Trinovid HD ER works fine for me. I also like the close focus of the HD...

-Bill
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Old Monday 13th January 2020, 16:45   #452
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...from the specifications, "the best" for close observation among the three versions, it will be the 10x40. Since that's what will produce the greatest magnification of the observed nearby objects...
When viewing butterflies, it is often the bin that allows the closest approach, not necessarily that which yields the highest magnification, which performs best. Butterflies often land on the ground or at angles on foliage that do not allow for viewing (line-of-sight) except at close range. For this reason, I find bins that focus to 5 feet to be vastly superior for butterflying than are bins that, for example, focus to 8 feet (a difference that most birders will not consider to be of much consequence). Focus below 3 feet can be nice for butterflying, but I find that the practical advantages are few. I hope the best butterflying+birding bins of the future will be ~8x, wide-field, with 4 foot close focus, and with variable-ratio focus.

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Old Monday 13th January 2020, 17:35   #453
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When viewing butterflies, it is often the bin that allows the closest approach, not necessarily that which yields the highest magnification, which performs best. Butterflies often land on the ground or at angles on foliage that do not allow for viewing (line-of-sight) except at close range. For this reason, I find bins that focus to 5 feet to be vastly superior for butterflying than are bins that, for example, focus to 8 feet (a difference that most birders will not consider to be of much consequence). Focus below 3 feet can be nice for butterflying, but I find that the practical advantages are few. I hope the best butterflying+birding bins of the future will be ~8x, wide-field, with 4 foot close focus, and with variable-ratio focus.

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I agree with you Alexis.

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Old Tuesday 14th January 2020, 15:30   #454
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When viewing butterflies, it is often the bin that allows the closest approach, not necessarily that which yields the highest magnification, which performs best.
I had also evaluated this situation. And in fact I wanted to clarify that all three sucks, as regards the close distance (unfortunately).
However, despite your grip, mine only wanted to be a clarification.

I am used to 1.3-1.8m (4-6ft) and would not like any 7-8-10x binoculars with 4-6m (13-20ft) of focus.
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Old Tuesday 14th January 2020, 17:23   #455
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Originally Posted by Canip View Post
Tks Chuck.
Yes, the Silverline could be something like the "Retrovid at UV level", looks very very nice, I must say I have only ever seen it from the outside and don't really know it
Is it optically a full-fledged UV HD, or even HD+?
Canip
Sorry it took me so long to see this...my long work weekend!

I believe the Silverline is actually just a "plain" Ultravid. HOWEVER, I really can't tell ANY difference optically with the Silverline and the UVHD+ with side by side viewing.

Back to the 7X35 Retrovid....

From everything I've heard so far optically it's on par with most other recent Leica binoculars. From the pictures I've seen, I really like it's small stature. ALSO, Leica list its weight at 20.8 ounces. The new CL B is right at 17oz and the SV 8X32 is right at 20oz so 20.8oz for a 7X35 certainly gets my attention in a positive way. Of course I like it because it's a 7X35 too!

On the negative side from my POV... As Canip put it...and Tenex noted...It's probably not a binocular targeted at the birding community and that's by FAR the main reason I even have binoculars in the first place. A close focus of 13ft is pushing it put doable in most situations. My SLC 8X42 has a CF of about 10ft and I'll admit to viewing birds as close as it would focus several times. 7X will be a little forgiving in this regard but my UVHD+ 7X42 focuses to 8.75 ft. I can also tell I'm not going to be crazy about the focus wheel.

This AM I'm trying to imagine how the Retrovid would do at Magee Marsh? Would it compete with the UVHD+ 7X42 and the SV 8X32?

No telling what I'm gonna do really....
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Old Thursday 16th January 2020, 19:04   #456
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Originally Posted by chill6x6 View Post

This AM I'm trying to imagine how the Retrovid would do at Magee Marsh? Would it compete with the UVHD+ 7X42 and the SV 8X32?

No telling what I'm gonna do really....

Chuck, I get the impression that the Retrovid won't be the BEST tool for the job, but it surely will work fine within its spec. However, if you miss a few birds due to close focus limitations, or the speed of the focuser doesn't get you there on time, then you might wish you had something else in hand. (which in your case will probably be in the trunk in the parking lot..) ;-)

Of course no matter what the result, the binoculars will look good! My guess is that an experienced birder such as yourself will be able to put them to use just fine, but they are not purpose built, the way other products are, to provide real world advantages specific to that activity.

I think they dropped the ball on close focus, as a mixed-use travel bin can do a great job in a crowded museum.

Maybe its more like the Morgan you see someone driving on a weekend. Enjoy it for what it is.

-Bill
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Old Thursday 16th January 2020, 21:49   #457
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Chuck (post #455),

I concur with Bill. As you have an UV HD+ 7x42 and an SV 8x32, I can assure you that you absolutely DON’T NEED a Retrovid, you have all the tools it takes (the same will be true for many birders).

And so do I.

So it will be interesting to see how many will nevertheless acquire a Retrovid .... the looks, handling, haptics are one thing, but the optics also impressed me quite a bit, more than I had anticipated. Still fighting with myself .... stay away from the Leica Stores!
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Old Friday 17th January 2020, 04:43   #458
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Chuck (post #455),

Still fighting with myself .... stay away from the Leica Stores!
I remember reading an interview with the musician Neil Young, talking about guitars, and he mentioned that some guitars that he purchased, reminded him of the places he had been at that time...

It could be a carved figurine, a guitar, ... a binocular.

Of the 2 times I've visited a Leica store in the last few years, I've ended up either directly, or indirectly, with 3 different pairs of binoculars. So, yes, your warning is to be heeded if one is on some sort of 'optics whole 30 diet'

-Bill
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Old Friday 17th January 2020, 08:43   #459
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?....
.....
.....

Of the 2 times I've visited a Leica store in the last few years, I've ended up either directly, or indirectly, with 3 different pairs of binoculars......
.....
3 pairs - i.e. 6 binoculars?? That‘s a lot for 2 visits in the store.
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Old Friday 17th January 2020, 15:12   #460
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3 pairs - i.e. 6 binoculars?? That‘s a lot for 2 visits in the store.
His and hers!

(Not)

Bad vocabulary on my part. Stay away from the Leica store, especially if you’re on holiday.

-b
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Old Friday 17th January 2020, 15:35   #461
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Chuck, I get the impression that the Retrovid won't be the BEST tool for the job, but it surely will work fine within its spec. However, if you miss a few birds due to close focus limitations, or the speed of the focuser doesn't get you there on time, then you might wish you had something else in hand. (which in your case will probably be in the trunk in the parking lot..) ;-)

Of course no matter what the result, the binoculars will look good! My guess is that an experienced birder such as yourself will be able to put them to use just fine, but they are not purpose built, the way other products are, to provide real world advantages specific to that activity.

I think they dropped the ball on close focus, as a mixed-use travel bin can do a great job in a crowded museum.

Maybe its more like the Morgan you see someone driving on a weekend. Enjoy it for what it is.

-Bill
That's all true. I DO ride a Harley and not a Ducati and do own a Jeep Wrangler so I'm all ready pretty Retro! The Retrovid would provably fit right in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canip View Post
Chuck (post #455),

I concur with Bill. As you have an UV HD+ 7x42 and an SV 8x32, I can assure you that you absolutely DON’T NEED a Retrovid, you have all the tools it takes (the same will be true for many birders).

And so do I.

So it will be interesting to see how many will nevertheless acquire a Retrovid .... the looks, handling, haptics are one thing, but the optics also impressed me quite a bit, more than I had anticipated. Still fighting with myself .... stay away from the Leica Stores!
The good news is there's really no Leica stores anywhere CLOSE to me. Email IS alive and well though. I got an email from Leica of San Francisco...they got in a black, leathered 7X35. I went ahead and told them I'd take it. That was probably pretty predictable!
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Old Friday 17th January 2020, 15:46   #462
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.....
.....
.....
...they got in a black, leathered 7X35. I went ahead and told them I'd take it. That was probably pretty predictable!

another soul lost to the "Retrovirus" :-(

((when I wrote "stay away from Leica Stores", I of course meant both physically and virtually/electronically.))

Just wondering how much fighting power my immune system still has .... although after going over my notes from the two store visits a few more times, the 8x40 (which impressed me even more) and not the 7x35 poses the biggest risk to my health

Last edited by Canip : Friday 17th January 2020 at 15:55.
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Old Friday 17th January 2020, 17:32   #463
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Chuck,

Yours is the task to write a detailed review about the 7x35 for all of us once you get it (Dennis will be so happy he is not alone any more with his Retrovid)

Canip
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Old Friday 17th January 2020, 18:35   #464
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That's all true. I DO ride a Harley and not a Ducati and do own a Jeep Wrangler so I'm all ready pretty Retro! The Retrovid would provably fit right in!



The good news is there's really no Leica stores anywhere CLOSE to me. Email IS alive and well though. I got an email from Leica of San Francisco...they got in a black, leathered 7X35. I went ahead and told them I'd take it. That was probably pretty predictable!
Chuck,

With a Harley and a Wrangler you don't WANT a Leica store CLOSE to you.

Jan
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Old Friday 17th January 2020, 18:37   #465
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Bob:

Your points are well stated, but this is all explained above. The Trinovid model has been Leica's most
significant model ever produced, easily the largest volume seller for over 40 years.

So you do need to know about Leica sports optics history. This retro model of an older Trinovid is
just a welcome addition to the Trinovid lineup. Retro means bringing back something from the past.

If some on the site are excited about calling this model "Retrovid", be a good sport and play along.

I welcome the new model, there is no confusion at all here.

Jerry
Jerry,

Happy to play along and I see how the Retrovid idea on this forum is a neat way to separate the new Trinovids from previous ones. Outside the forum despite the literal meaning of 'retro' being just as you say it can also carry connotations of being backward in other ways i.e. a retrograde step, so I can see that 'Retrovid' would be unlikely as a serious name though personally I think it's a clever one.

Tom
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Old Friday 17th January 2020, 22:41   #466
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Originally Posted by Canip View Post
another soul lost to the "Retrovirus" :-(

((when I wrote "stay away from Leica Stores", I of course meant both physically and virtually/electronically.))

Just wondering how much fighting power my immune system still has .... although after going over my notes from the two store visits a few more times, the 8x40 (which impressed me even more) and not the 7x35 poses the biggest risk to my health
Canip. I wish you would get the Retrovid 8x40. I would love to read a review on that one. It looks pretty interesting. I am thinking very close to Ultravid HD 8x42 + optics in a much more compact package with a smoother focuser ,better aesthetics and a lower price point. I will be curious to see how Chuck likes the Retrovid 7x35. I bet it will surprise him how good it is. It might just replace his 7x42 Ultravid HD+.

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Old Saturday 18th January 2020, 03:49   #467
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Jerry,

Happy to play along and I see how the Retrovid idea on this forum is a neat way to separate the new Trinovids from previous ones. Outside the forum despite the literal meaning of 'retro' being just as you say it can also carry connotations of being backward in other ways i.e. a retrograde step, so I can see that 'Retrovid' would be unlikely as a serious name though personally I think it's a clever one.

Tom
Yes, we can understand that the name Retrovid conjures an image of the owner bending over and pointing their rear-mounted binoculars at the sky. It is indeed an image which might not delight Leica, especially since they might wish to reserve that name for a proctological endoscope.


Edmund

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Old Saturday 18th January 2020, 05:01   #468
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Are you making Leica the butt of the joke? ��
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Old Saturday 18th January 2020, 05:10   #469
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Originally Posted by chill6x6 View Post
. . .
I got an email from Leica of San Francisco...they got in a black, leathered 7X35. I went ahead and told them I'd take it. That was probably pretty predictable!
Hi Chuck,

Good to hear. And when you report on it, please start a new thread!


John
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Old Sunday 19th January 2020, 19:32   #470
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Yes, we can understand that the name Retrovid conjures an image of the owner bending over and pointing their rear-mounted binoculars at the sky. It is indeed an image which might not delight Leica, especially since they might wish to reserve that name for a proctological endoscope.


Edmund
Proctological: you get serious house points for that one! :-)
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Old Sunday 19th January 2020, 20:33   #471
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Wouldn't that be called the rectovid?
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Old Sunday 19th January 2020, 21:29   #472
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Old Sunday 19th January 2020, 23:48   #473
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Chuck,

Yours is the task to write a detailed review about the 7x35 for all of us once you get it (Dennis will be so happy he is not alone any more with his Retrovid)

Canip
Certainly will do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jan van daalen View Post
Chuck,

With a Harley and a Wrangler you don't WANT a Leica store CLOSE to you.

Jan
You're right! I actually go a far away as possible!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canip View Post
another soul lost to the "Retrovirus" :-(

((when I wrote "stay away from Leica Stores", I of course meant both physically and virtually/electronically.))

Just wondering how much fighting power my immune system still has .... although after going over my notes from the two store visits a few more times, the 8x40 (which impressed me even more) and not the 7x35 poses the biggest risk to my health
I think your immune system will eventually cave in!

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Hi Chuck,

Good to hear. And when you report on it, please start a new thread!


John
Will do for sure!
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Old Saturday 25th January 2020, 11:53   #474
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Retrovid impressions

Drizzly blowy grey day two weeks ago (much like today). I decided going birding wasn't worth bothering with, put my bino-geek's hat on, and trotted down to Leica Mayfair to have a look at the Retrovids.

No other customers were there when I showed up at around 10.35am, and the immaculately dressed rep was quite happy to let me try the 7x35, 8x40 and 10x40 in the street outside. As a yardstick I brought two Zeiss Dialyts, both of which I was very familiar with - the 10x40 (P model) which I had been using almost every day for the last few weeks, and the 7x42 (P).

I looked through them in this sequence: 7x35, 7x42, 8x40, 10x40 Dialyt, 10x40 Retrovid.

Detail at distance is my favourite test for binoculars, but there were no really distant subjects to look at. The fine details of twigs etc on trees at Manchester Square, 310m or so to the north, and Grosvenor Square about 200m to the south, as well as street signs and all the other text you can find in the city made for a reasonable test of sharpness/detail. Brightness I could compare with the Dialyts, and there was enough colour around in shop displays etc to get a sense of colour rendition under those conditions.

Ergonomics and mechanicals were very similar across all three, so I'll deal with them at the end and address what they were like to look through individually:

7x35: I thought (and was a little surprised to find) its overall performance very competitive with the 7x42 Dialyt, at least under those conditions. Sharpness and detail seemed very similar, and brightness, frankly, also seemed very similar, although you would expect the 7x42 to be superior in the early morning and late evening. Maybe the 7x42 was a tad brighter, but if so, it was very hard to tell. I couldn't really tell much of a difference in contrast or colour rendition either, although dull grey days like these seem to leach out all colour - it might have been different on a bright sunny day. The greater field of view of the 7x42 was apparent when I changed over to it, but good edge performance, and being able to get the binocular close enough to my eyes that the field stop was a long way out from the centre of view, helped the 7x35 make up for it. Steady view, as you would expect from a 7x, and excellent depth of field (should have compared this more intensively vs the 7x42 but didn't). With eyecups fully down I got slight blackouts, but winding them up slightly eliminated that. The overall impression I got was that it was very similar to the 7x42, but much smaller.

8x40: I was given this by mistake instead of the 10x40. Very similar view to the 7x35. I didn't have anything to compare it with but I'd say the 8x32 and 8x42 FL are both a little sharper in the center and the 8x42 a little brighter (as you would expect). That's not to say the Retrovid lacks in sharpness, they are definitely sharp enough.

10x40: Sharpness comparable to the 10x40 Dialyt at the distances I tried it over, sharpness to the edge possibly a little better, but I would need to have them side by side to be sure. Brightness I think is slightly better - not by a lot but I think enough to be noticed. (The Dialyt is certainly bright enough for general birding though). Colour rendition seemed similar, however...

I did notice, when comparing this Dialyt alongside the Canon/Meopta/Conquest 10x42s at Birdfair, in bright sunny conditions, that the colour rendition of the more modern binoculars seemed more natural. There's a slight yellow, or warm, cast to the Dialyt (also noticeable in the 8x30 SLC mark II I used to own), apparently due to the silver rather than dielectric mirror coatings on the prisms, that I don't notice when using it but does become apparent when used alongside these more modern binoculars. Under grey conditions I think that yellow cast manifests itself to me as a little darker image (I thought the same when comparing this 10x40 with a 10x42 FL some years back on a similar dull grey day). This is probably why I thought colour rendition was similar between the two 10x40s under those conditions.

That's about as much as I can comment on about the view. Ideally I would have liked to have done a side by side comparison, but I didn't want to test the goodwill of the staff too much. It would also have been interesting to look through them under sunny conditions, which I might be able to do in a couple months' time...

(to be continued...)

Last edited by Patudo : Saturday 25th January 2020 at 13:09.
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Old Saturday 25th January 2020, 15:01   #475
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"The overall impression I got was that it was very similar to the 7x42, but much smaller."

That is the same conclusion I came to when comparing the Retrovid's 7x35 to my Leica Ultravid's HD 7x42.



"There's a slight yellow, or warm, cast to the Dialyt (also noticeable in the 8x30 SLC mark II I used to own), apparently due to the silver rather than dielectric mirror coatings on the prisms, that I don't notice when using it but does become apparent when used alongside these more modern binoculars. Under grey conditions I think that yellow cast manifests itself to me as a little darker image (I thought the same when comparing this 10x40 with a 10x42 FL some years back on a similar dull grey day)."

That is why I never cared for the Dialyt. I didn't like the yellow cast which IMO manifests itself as a darker image.


Nice Review!
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