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Blues - Pembrey, Carmarthenshire

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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 11:06   #1
DoghouseRiley
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Blues - Pembrey, Carmarthenshire

After a family holiday in Wales, I have returned with photos and I need help confirming identification:

1 & 2 - Due to the lack of a spot on the forewing, near the body. I see this as a Brown Argus?

3 - Male Common Blue?

4 & 5 - Female Common Blue?

Thanks

Gareth
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 11:59   #2
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Correct on all counts I'd say.
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 12:45   #3
Adey Baker
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1 and 2 look more like Silver-studded to me. No forewing 'cell spot' and no hindwing 'colon' spots leave little else and the upperside hindwing shows just enough to suggest SSB
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 12:50   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adey Baker View Post
1 and 2 look more like Silver-studded to me. No forewing 'cell spot' and no hindwing 'colon' spots leave little else and the upperside hindwing shows just enough to suggest SSB
But they don't have the silver 'studs', the black, blue centred spots on the hindwing.

One of mine from Russia is attached albeit a male.
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 13:22   #5
Adey Baker
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But they don't have the silver 'studs', the black, blue centred spots on the hindwing.

One of mine from Russia is attached albeit a male.
They should do, yes, but I've just had a quick look at some shots I took several years ago of SSBs at Prees Heath and the studs are clear on one female, almost worn away on a male and not visible on another female (though a bit of vegetation covers one potential 'spot area').

Perhaps the studs wear off easily, but I've not seen enough in this country to be sure on that (any comments from anyone who lives in a regular area for them?).
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 14:12   #6
Adey Baker
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They should do, yes, but I've just had a quick look at some shots I took several years ago of SSBs at Prees Heath and the studs are clear on one female, almost worn away on a male and not visible on another female (though a bit of vegetation covers one potential 'spot area').

Perhaps the studs wear off easily, but I've not seen enough in this country to be sure on that (any comments from anyone who lives in a regular area for them?).
Actually, looking again at photo 2, the ground colour of the hindwing isn't 'plain' enough for SSB, which wouldn't have that whitish area on it, so is it a Common Blue without cell-spot?
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 14:37   #7
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Actually, looking again at photo 2, the ground colour of the hindwing isn't 'plain' enough for SSB, which wouldn't have that whitish area on it, so is it a Common Blue without cell-spot?
It's Brown Argus.
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 14:54   #8
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Thanks Andy and everyone for your help. A few more coming......................
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 15:57   #9
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It's Brown Argus.
Interesting. I've never known of Brown Argus with the diagnostic 'colon' spots so mis-aligned as that.
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 16:57   #10
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Interesting. I've never known of Brown Argus with the diagnostic 'colon' spots so mis-aligned as that.
Why do you seem so surpised when you seemed fully prepared to accept Common Blues with the lower spot missing altogether?
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 18:46   #11
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Why do you seem so surpised when you seemed fully prepared to accept Common Blues with the lower spot missing altogether?
Well, I'm not aware of either possibility, so that's why I phrased it as a question - I could just have easily have done it the other way round! As the 'colon' is a first port of call for BA and 'cell spot,' when visible, is the same for Common Blue (in UK) then I would have been equally surprised either way!
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Old Monday 30th July 2018, 23:43   #12
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For what it is worth. I have been looking at Newland/Swash/Tomlinson/Still - the female common blue seems to have a blue tinge to the upper parts, I don't see any in picture one.

Gareth
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Old Wednesday 1st August 2018, 18:14   #13
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For what it is worth. I have been looking at Newland/Swash/Tomlinson/Still - the female common blue seems to have a blue tinge to the upper parts, I don't see any in picture one.

Gareth
Common blue females are notoriously variable...most commonly brown with a bit of blue, but extremes at either end can occur.
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Old Wednesday 1st August 2018, 21:34   #14
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Or it could be a Brown Argus?
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Old Wednesday 1st August 2018, 21:37   #15
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Or it could be a Brown Argus?
Bloody hell, I've said twice that's what it is!
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Old Thursday 2nd August 2018, 00:31   #16
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I know Andy, I think I hear dissenting voices though :)

Not mine obviously

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Old Saturday 11th August 2018, 04:37   #17
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1-2 is a female Common Blue, aberration icarinus. Frequent enough on the mainland to have fooled many top naturalists and was responsible for the relatively late detection and description of Chapman's Blue. I've seen quite a few in Portugal, it's well known and there's nothing strange about that.
See male #5 and female #19 here: http://www.lepiforum.de/lepiwiki.pl?Polyommatus_Icarus
Also, how to ID correctly a Common Blue: http://www.naturspaziergang.de/Fotoh...Hilfe_US-1.jpg
And another female icarinus: http://www.naturspaziergang.de/Tagfa...inus_Hilfe.jpg
Some Common Blues will lack the cell spots only on one side.
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