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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

1980's Zeiss compact questions (1 Viewer)

B

Berika

New member
First post. My beloved Zeiss 8x20 I purchased in Germany in 1984 was stolen or lost while in the care of my wife while we were camping in Shenandoah National Park, Virginia last summer. Yes, we are still married. I'm looking at replacing these now, likely with a similar used pair. I am not primarily a birder, but use these for backpacking and other general use. A few questions from viewing some on eBay, etc.

1) I see some are listed with B and T suffix. I'm not remembering that initial from mine. Am I correct that B indicates the roll-back eye cups (which mine had) and T indicates a lens coating? I'm guessing the T is superior, right?

2) I see that some say they are made in Hungary. Are they different from the others, which I presume are made in Germany.

3) How would my 1984 8 x 20 compare with these that are currently offered-- Terra ED 8x25, Conquest HD 8x32 or Victory SF 8x42? I simply listed the smallest in each class. My assumption is that it is closest to the Terra ED. Is the Terra lower or higher quality compared to my former 8x20.

4) I'm also considering the similarly vintage 10x25.

Any info or counsel appreciated!
 
Berika said:
First post. My beloved Zeiss 8x20 I purchased in Germany in 1984 was stolen or lost while in the care of my wife while we were camping in Shenandoah National Park, Virginia last summer. Yes, we are still married. I'm looking at replacing these now, likely with a similar used pair. I am not primarily a birder, but use these for backpacking and other general use. A few questions from viewing some on eBay, etc.

1) I see some are listed with B and T suffix. I'm not remembering that initial from mine. Am I correct that B indicates the roll-back eye cups (which mine had) and T indicates a lens coating? I'm guessing the T is superior, right?

2) I see that some say they are made in Hungary. Are they different from the others, which I presume are made in Germany.

3) How would my 1984 8 x 20 compare with these that are currently offered-- Terra ED 8x25, Conquest HD 8x32 or Victory SF 8x42? I simply listed the smallest in each class. My assumption is that it is closest to the Terra ED. Is the Terra lower or higher quality compared to my former 8x20.

4) I'm also considering the similarly vintage 10x25.

Any info or counsel appreciated!
Click to expand...

Hello Berika

B stands for the German word for spectacles and indicates these binos are suitable for spectacle wears. The eyecups are adjustable to achieve this. The T refers to the lens coating, just as you said, and is shown as T*.

I am not familiar with the Compacts that had roll-down eyecups. Mine had pull-up eyecups and were made in Hungary at the Zeiss factory there.

I cannot comment too specifically on how your old Compacts compare with current models but I am guessing it would be somewhere similar to Conquest HD.

The latest model Victory Compacts have been very well received so you might want to look at those and visit the thread on them on here.

Lee
 
Welcome to the forum!

If your Zeiss 8x20s are anything like my Leica 8x20 binoculars that I bought in the 1980s, I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised by the capability of modern compact binoculars. When I tried a modern pair of quality compacts (from Kowa incidentally) I was amazed at the improvement in contrast and clarity - largely due to modern multicoatings, dielectric coatings and phase correction on the prisms.

I think if you try a pair of Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32 or the Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25s which have been getting quite a bit of appreciation on this forum, you'll be blown away by the improvement in the view. I think you may feel your wife has done you a favour...

As to 10x25 binoculars, my feeling is that they're too hard to hold steady and give too dim a view to be satisfactory, but some others seem to get on with them. As always with binoculars, try before you buy is a good mantra...
 
In 1984 there were two Zeiss 8x20 models: an 8x20 Dialyt, which looked like a miniature version of the 8x30 Dialyt and an 8x20 mini, which was smaller and had a double hinge. Both carried the "B" designation and had fold down rubber eyecups. Both also used the old "T" single layer lens coating rather than the superior "T*" multicoating and of course neither was phase corrected. Neither would come close to the performance any decent quality modern binocular. The Terra 8x25 ED would be considerably superior and the Victory Compacts better still.
 
Thanks all. This is helpful. Mine were the double-hinged 8x20's. It does sound like I should be considering something other than my vintage model. I'll try to find a local shop to do that.
 
berika, post 5,
Leica has two very good 8x20's in its programme: the Trinovid 8x20BCA and the 8x20 Ultravid BR (rubber armament) or the Blackline (leather). Especially the Ultravids are excellent and certainly comparable and in some aspects may be even better than the older Victories.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
If you're not particularly on a tight budget or driven to get a vintage pair for sentimental reasons, both of course quite valid, I'd look at the Terra 8x25 or Victory Pocket 8x25 if the budget can stretch. I have the latter and am very happy indeed, I think you'd find both of these a vast improvement on any vintage model.
 
F88 said:
If you're not particularly on a tight budget or driven to get a vintage pair for sentimental reasons, both of course quite valid, I'd look at the Terra 8x25 or Victory Pocket 8x25 if the budget can stretch. I have the latter and am very happy indeed, I think you'd find both of these a vast improvement on any vintage model.
Click to expand...

Based on your reported experience, I agree completely with F88's rec above that depending on budget you can safely simplify your choice between the Zeiss Terra and Zeiss Victory 8x25 models. I am not an expert, only a pathological binocular enthusiast and especially pocket models. Because you enjoyed your Zeiss 8x20 for more than a third of a century, it's safe to say another compact pair is the best place to start. The "try before you buy" commandment is a good one but you may only learn more what you do not like or at best that you have a slight preference for one over the other by brief comparison in a store or even several days of casual use in your neighborhood. OTOH your appreciation for what seems initially to be only a slightly better bin (at more than twice the price) may well increase exponentially over time with extended use in the field. For context, I currently own and regulary use 16 different pockets including both the Zeiss models, 8x20 and 8x25 Swarovski and the jewel like Leica Ultravid 8x20 (a possible alternative if ultra compact and light weight are critical for you) . IMO there is nothing wrong with the Terra for the money, but the Victory is a game changer, a revelation in compacts. Especially for someone who uses and appreciates binoculars the way you apparently do.

I have no affiliation with any manufacturer and generally prefer my Swarovski bins in a given format over all other alphas. But in my experience (and given the standard caveat that a person's individual anatomy may dictate the choice) the Victory 8x25 has no competition in its class at this time.

Keep us posted on your search, choice and experience.
 
mwhogue, post 8,
I can not share your conclusion that the Victory 8x25 has no competition in its class at this time, see my test report of 8x25 binocuars in "Verrekijkers testen en vergelijken" on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Gijs van Ginkel said:
mwhogue, post 8,
I can not share your conclusion that the Victory 8x25 has no competition in its class at this time, see my test report of 8x25 binocuars in "Verrekijkers testen en vergelijken" on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
Gijs van Ginkel
Click to expand...

While I'm sure there are other 8x25's out there that would perform excellently, e.g. Swarovski, perhaps what he is saying is that the Zeiss offers the best sum of all parts? Quality of view, FOV, ease of view combined with exceptional handling.
My personal taste very much agrees with the Zeiss 8x25 like many others.
I can agree that the Zeiss with the sum of it's parts is likely up the top of or best of class but can also agree that it certainly isn't without it's peers of note at varying price levels.
Not to mention the varied personal preference factor or that I'm biased B :)
 
Last edited:
Hi Berika,

first of all, welcome to birdforum!

The Zeiss 8x20B was a true shirt pocket bin with 190g and its tiny size - unlike most of todays 8x25 pairs which are closer to 300g and a bit more bulky. Its closest current relative would be the Trinovid 8x20 BCA.

Zeiss did sell a multicoated and phasecoated variant of your former pair under the name Conquest 8x20 T* until a few years ago - I have the 10x version although I should have gotten the 8x one... the 10x25 is a bit hard to hold stable...

If you can fit the slightly increased bulk of todays 8x25 pairs, those will give a better view for 100g more - and light 8x30 pairs start around 450g and are fine for general birding.

Joachim
 
Last edited:
Berika said:
First post. My beloved Zeiss 8x20 I purchased in Germany in 1984 was stolen or lost while in the care of my wife while we were camping in Shenandoah National Park, Virginia last summer. Yes, we are still married. I'm looking at replacing these now, likely with a similar used pair. I am not primarily a birder, but use these for backpacking and other general use. A few questions from viewing some on eBay, etc.

1) I see some are listed with B and T suffix. I'm not remembering that initial from mine. Am I correct that B indicates the roll-back eye cups (which mine had) and T indicates a lens coating? I'm guessing the T is superior, right?

2) I see that some say they are made in Hungary. Are they different from the others, which I presume are made in Germany.

3) How would my 1984 8 x 20 compare with these that are currently offered-- Terra ED 8x25, Conquest HD 8x32 or Victory SF 8x42? I simply listed the smallest in each class. My assumption is that it is closest to the Terra ED. Is the Terra lower or higher quality compared to my former 8x20.

4) I'm also considering the similarly vintage 10x25.

Any info or counsel appreciated!
Click to expand...


Hi Berika,

I have a friend who has a very old Zeiss 8x20 or 10x25, not sure which as I haven't seen it in a while. He got it around 1980 or so. It focuses by turning a dial on the top of the binocular.:h?: Quite frankly it is a lousy binocular! He still has the paper work for it and he still uses it when he hunts.

I suggested that he send it back to Zeiss for cleaning and such and I mentioned that they might send him back instead a new compact Terra ED which would be much, much better! He told me he is satisfied with the one he has.

I have an 8x20 Victory T* Compact (made in Hungary) since 2009. It has the single off-set hinge and it is a good binocular. I can get along with its small eye cups because they are firm and have long enough eye relief for me. I brace them up against and just under my brow ridge. It is handy and easy to carry around.

Bob
 
Last edited:
I will offer my thoughts, if looking for a replacement, consider the Zeiss Terra 8x25, it is very
good, offers a bright and sharp view and has a more comfortable view that any 8x20 models.

I have not tried the new Victory model, but I have handled the Swaro. 8x25, and this one did not
offer any better comfort when viewing, eye relief, etc.

The small pocket binoculars are fiddly in use, no other way to say it, and all are a step below a nice
small 8x30 binocular, in field use and viewing comfort. I have many binoculars, and so do most that
have a pocket type, and when wanting to really use one for more than just a quick glance, bigger is
better.

That is why I recommend the Zeiss Terra, at less than half the price of the top lines.

Jerry
 
Gijs post 9

Hello Gijs -- Thanks for the reference to House of Outdoor and to your review of compact/pocket binoculars. I also read your post 14 on the "Pocket 10 x 25?" thread in which you gave a short summary of the reasons you prefer the Swaro 8x25 over Zeiss Victory 8 x 25 both ergonomically and optically. I also have read others prefer the Swaro ergonomics as well and I would not disagree with you or anyone else because it's such an individual anatomical matter that there can be no meaningful disagreement. For me the ergonomics and handling of the Zeiss are far superior to any pocket and compare well with many mid size bins. But I would be interested to know in more detail why you prefer the Swaro optically because I would like to compare them with your opinions in mind. I agree with your review that the image quality of both are excellent. For me the significantly wider FOV of the Zeiss is a big optical advantage over the Swaro. Today for example in overcast and very light rain I was surprised to see the Zeiss noticeably brighter and sharper than the Swaro. However in bright light, the Swaro seems a bit sharper and seems to resolve slightly more detail at long distance. If you have done a more detailed comparison as you mentioned in the 10 x 25 thread you might, please let me know where I can find it.

Mike
 
F88 said:
While I'm sure there are other 8x25's out there that would perform excellently, e.g. Swarovski, perhaps what he is saying is that the Zeiss offers the best sum of all parts? Quality of view, FOV, ease of view combined with exceptional handling.
My personal taste very much agrees with the Zeiss 8x25 like many others.
I can agree that the Zeiss with the sum of it's parts is likely up the top of or best of class but can also agree that it certainly isn't without it's peers of note at varying price levels.
Not to mention the varied personal preference factor or that I'm biased B :)
Click to expand...

Right. I use that cliche "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts" to try to describe why IMO the victory is so far ahead of other pockets. Oversimplifying here but trying to describe more concretely the overall appeal of the victory: all my bins tick all 4 boxes you mention. So if we give 1 point for each box, all have a "sum" and a "whole" totaling 4 which for the sake of this example reasonably reflects their performance in actual use. Except for the Zeiss which has a sum of 4 but somehow delivers a whole of 5 or 6 in actual use for me.

Fortunately the original poster is looking to replace the bins he used for over 30 years so if we amortize his purchase over the next 30 years he could reasonably purchase any of the top three pockets if so inclined. More preferably. ;)
 
mwhogue, post 14,
I wil come back to your question in more detail, but I have some work obligations, that fill too much of my time right now.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
mwhogue, post 14,
I reread my test report of 8x25 binoculars a few times, but I have not drawn the conclusion that one of the tested ones could be considered as the best one.
There are differences that may be important for users, for example (I will try to do that in alphabetical order:
Weight: Bynolyt Seagull 302 g, Swarovski CL Pocket 346 g, Zeiss Victory 287 g
FOV: Bynolyt 113m/100m, Swarovski 119 m/1000m , Zeiss Victory 130 m/1000m
Close Focus: Bynolyt 2,45 m, Swarovski 2,1m, Zeiss 1,75m
Transmission 550 nm: Bynolyt 92,6%, Swarovski 95,3%, Zeiss 94,6%
Focussing speed (CF to Infinity): Bynolyt 3 turns, Swarovski 2 turns, Zeiss 2 turns
Eyecup quality (can one remove them or not): Bynoly, no, Swarovski yes, Zeiss no
Price: Bynolyt 300 euros, Swarovski 730 euros, Zeiss 745 euros
Turning resistance focussing wheel is for the Swarovski the best of the three, the wheel of the Zeiss is turning stiffer, the wheel of the Bynolyt is large and very convenient to handle.
Service level also in the long turn: Swarovski nr 1 (by far the best), Bynolyt and Zeiss nr 2
Color reproduction are for all three almost neutral.
All three binoculars are attractive instruments.
I hope to have answered your questions.
As reader one can decide which binocular is most attractive considering all these details, I did not want to write down a preference in the test report, so no conclusion as far as I am concerned about which one is the best.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
In addition to my post 17:
The hinge constructions of the three binoculars I described im my test report and in post 47 differs:
The Bynolyt Seagull 8x25 has a central single hinge, the Swarovski and Zeiss binoculars have a different hinge constructions, which makes it possible to fold them to a small volume. In te test report I have not given my opinion about these constructions, but I will do that here: I prefer the single hinge of the Bynolyt Seagull despite the fact that the binocular yields a slight larger volume for transport.
The critical reader may have seen, that the Victory 8x25 is made for Zeiss in Japan as is the monocular 8x26 Zeiss RF. And I asked myself: how long will it take before Zeiss binoculars made in Germany are becoming a rarity?
(Binocular production is only a very small part of the total Zeiss instrument production, but it used to be the flag on the Zeiss ship as one of the directors once told me).
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Lots of good advice above. I agree that a top-end current pocket bin will be MUCH better than the old Zeiss 8x20. As one who uses compact bins very often, for birding and butterflying, and under variable and tough field conditions, I recommend the Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket over everything else of small size. Killer FOV and contrast! It also offers the best grip if you prefer wrap-around as I do.

If you absolutely want an 8x20 (rather than 8x25, or larger), make sure you try the Leica 8x20 Ultravid BL (which is lighter and more compact than the rubberized version). I consider it the best 8x20 for birding use based on optics and handling qualities when unfolded asymmetrically (For the two hinges, extend fully whichever side corresponds to the hand you focus with, then use the other side to get the IPD set correctly).

--AP
 
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