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Olive Oropendola (1 Viewer)

Kits

Kits

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Amazonian Oropendola

Discussion thread for Amazonian Oropendola. If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.

This seems to be known as Para Oropendola (Psarocolius bifasciatus).

Or am I confused?
 
There is ample reason to be confused, it seems.

Issue one, scientific name: Clements and S&M uses Gymnostinops bifasciatus while H&M uses Psarocolius bifasciatus; because two of our sources use the same version we should stick with that, but ideally have a redirect from the second scientific name.

Issue two, common name: it seems that Gill and Wright have accepted a split not accepted by anyone else which would split this species into Olive Oropendola and Para Oropendola with Para used for the form that keeps bifasciatus. SACC talks about an old split that would use these names in the opposite way for the two daughter species, and names the full species we have as Amazonian O as Olive O (H&M also has this name). SACC also states that a proposal for what their policy should be is badly needed ;). I think the appropriate thing for us to do is to say at the very top: "Includes Olive Oropendola and Para Oropendola", and have redirects from each of these to this entry. (One could also use the construct Alternative names: and give the two same ones).

Cheers
Niels
 
njlarsen said:
Issue two, common name: it seems that Gill and Wright have accepted a split not accepted by anyone else which would split this species into Olive Oropendola and Para Oropendola with Para used for the form that keeps bifasciatus. SACC talks about an old split that would use these names in the opposite way for the two daughter species, and names the full species we have as Amazonian O as Olive O (H&M also has this name). SACC also states that a proposal for what their policy should be is badly needed ;). I think the appropriate thing for us to do is to say at the very top: "Includes Olive Oropendola and Para Oropendola", and have redirects from each of these to this entry. (One could also use the construct Alternative names: and give the two same ones).
Click to expand...

To settle the confusion:

Names used:

** Only one species recognized (yuracares a ssp. of bifasciatus):
Amazonian Oropendola or Olive Oropendola (Amazonian is best; see explanation further down).

** Two species:
* bifasciatus: Pará Oropendola (careful with Avibase in this case; the SACC listing of this species should actually be placed on the pre-split P. bifasciatus - not the post-split species where it has been placed on Avibase. No-one ever use Olive for the post-split P. bifasciatus).
* yuracares: Olive Oropendola.

I'd suggest people stay away from using Olive Oropendola when only recognizing a single species, and instead stick with Amazonian. The reason is simple: bifasciatus isn't Olive (only yuracares is olive), and calling a species "olive" when it included non-olive populations is problematic IMO (if split, of course, the use of Olive for yuracares is perfectly fine). It should be noted that based on presently available evidence the case for splitting the two is weak.
 
njlarsen said:
Sorry, I misread the SACC entry (note seven a little more than mid-way down http://www.museum.lsu.edu/~remsen/SACCBaseline11.html); probably hurried a little more than I should have. SACC actually does use the same names as Gill & Wrigth, opposite of what I wrote.
Click to expand...

Gill & Wright (2 spp.) and SACC (1 sp.) don't follow the same species limits here, so no, they don't use the same name (but beware of the Avibase mix-up mentioned in my earlier post). Disregarding the taxonomic issues, SACC made a bad choice for English name IMO (explained in my prev. post).
 
Could I ask one or both of you please to check my entry for the bird to see if what I have put is correct?

Thank you muchly!
 
Kits,
Mostly I think it looked good, but I changed the "Alternative name" to only say Olive, and put "Includes" in front of Para Oropendola, as that designation has not been used for the full species.

I also added text in the taxonomy section and did another couple of things (caption).

Niels
 
Rasmus Boegh said:
I'd suggest people stay away from using Olive Oropendola when only recognizing a single species, and instead stick with Amazonian. The reason is simple: bifasciatus isn't Olive (only yuracares is olive), and calling a species "olive" when it included non-olive populations is problematic IMO (if split, of course, the use of Olive for yuracares is perfectly fine). It should be noted that based on presently available evidence the case for splitting the two is weak.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, both Clements (2008) and IOC (2009) have gone with Olive Oropendola for the lumped version, joining H&M 03. I have changed Opus to go with this.
 
Alan Manson said:
Unfortunately, both Clements (2008) and IOC (2009) have gone with Olive Oropendola for the lumped version, joining H&M 03.
Click to expand...

IMO a pretty bad choice on their part, and only because they've now "synchronized" their lists almost 100% with AOU. Two nice photos here:

* http://www.aves.brasil.nom.br//files/photos/137/4645/19914.jpg
* http://www.aves.brasil.nom.br//files/photos/137/4645/19925.jpg

I think I'll start calling the eastern group the Blue Oropendola; considering that it has as much blue in its plumage as olive ;)
 
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