• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Newly designed Audubons? (2 Viewers)

SEOW,

Yes, the ED version. It's the "new" (old B & L) style "Z" type porro body, first nutted out here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=2051968#post2051968

I'll try and post some pics next week, so that the historians can go wild!

I suppose folk want to know the ins and outs of the focus bridge, and whether it's a flexi-flyer like the old one?
As far as I can tell, this one's made from a metal alloy that's painted black (it's not obviously magnetic), same as the frame. Overall the outside frame / mechanisms / skin, have an air of quality about them. The focus, as I said is superb (could be perfect, bar the few minor quoibles I mentioned), and so far that includes the focus bridge - no issue with this one at all.

I'll get the torch out next week, and do a detailed report on the interior then, to see if the curtains match the carpet, or whether this one will more resemble a suicide blonde ......


Chosun :gh:
 
Ron,

Yes, the ED model.

I'm quite susceptible to CA, so the non-ED version was never a consideration. How people manage not to see CA is a bit beyond me, however for those in that group - don't try too hard to get out of it! Perhaps I've spent too much time mucking around seeing etheric life force and such ..... It certainly was much easier to find the "Holy Grail" than a satisfying binocular is proving to be .....

I had them out today, under brightish yet overcast and diffuse conditions, and tried them out v's the Zen 8x43 ED3's on various targets. By and large they were slightly better than the Zens on woodswallows way up high, as far as I could crank my neck back, and also crows and magpies flying by. When it came to looking low at an old dead eucalypt stag (weathered light silver colour) against where the late afternoon sun would have been, the Swifts seemed to show more (thicker) yellow fringing than the Zens for the first time. When looking at the moon at the moment (last half), it's clearly advantage Swift - very, very good indeed.

It struck me again today, what a nice quality tactile feel there is to the rubber armouring, both in terms of texture, frictional coefficient (let's see albino's start measuring that one!), and also elasticity (softness). It also occurred to me how nice the 'buttery smooth' focuser was, so I had a more detailed look inside the bins to see if the quality extended to the detail finish inside ......

How can I be kind about this .....? The best of the Swift's finish is on the outside? |:(|

Inside the barrels, there are mountains of dull 'as cast' (or stamped)-coloured metal and bracketry. Any minimal blackening applied seems to have been a last minute rush job only nearly completed in the dying minutes on 'p.o.e.t.s' day. The parts in the lightpath at least, are finished in a perpendicularly brushstroke applied black paint (though not as matte as could be). Incredulously, there are bright metal marked areas on the edges of some of the bracketry that appear to have been attacked by a metal file or even angle grinder!

I must admit, that part of the rationale for seeking out this new body style Audubon Swift ED porro, was in the hope that great attention would be applied to glare control details, such that the view from the eyepiece end would more resemble the best from Leica, rather than the christmas tree-like photo shown in the albino's test for the Swift. Although it's better than that photo, it's only just, and is much closer to that, than the uniformly dark Leica backgrounds. A major missed opportunity here.

Further scrutiny to follow .....


Chosun :gh:
 
A few pics of the Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED porro prism in comparison to the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3 (weight is ~about the same), and also to an A5 size (150mm W x 210mm H) field guide book, to gain some perspective.

Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro versus Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3_pic1.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro versus Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3_pic2.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro reason for 3-D Effect versus Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3 Roof.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro size compared to A5 book_pic3.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro size compared to A5 book_pic4.JPG


Chosun :gh:
 
A few pics of the Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED porro prism eyepiece in comparison to the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3, and also some close-ups of the eyecup.

The Swift has an OD of 43mm, and an ID (of that outer rubber ring) of 31mm, although there's a large chamfer which adds 2mm to the ID (so ~33mm in effect). The eyepiece lens visible is 22mm in diameter L & R. (No measurement of the recess height yet, but it's greater than the Zen's). The eyepieces extend up by 11mm, although the movement and intermediate position is by no means definitive. Not bad for a $99 bin. Glad I only ever use them fully down!

The Zen has an OD of 41mm, and an ID (of that outer rubber ring) of 30mm. The eyepiece lens visible is 24mm in diameter L, and 23mm R (the diopter side). The eyecups, and retaining trim are recessed about as flat as practicable, and yet I've never contacted the eyepiece lens with my glasses - good job Zen (even though I still can't quite see the full fov - in practice the fov through both bins is very similar - maybe a poofteenth more to the Zen). The eyepieces extend up by 9mm, and although the movement and intermediate position is not exactly precise, it's better than the Swift. Similarly, I only ever use them fully down.

Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Eyepiece versus Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3 Eyecup.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Eyecup.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Eyecup_oblique.JPG


Chosun :gh:
 
Last edited:
A few pics of the RUBBISH Individual, Untethered, Objective and Eyepiece covers of the Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED porro prism, in comparison to the nicely designed units of the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3. Also note the barely wide enough (40mm), but miserably flat neckstrap of the Swift; compare this to the wider (44mm), but welcomely curved (~150mm deep) Zen-Ray neckstrap.

The individual, untethered, objective and eyepiece covers are absolutely rubbish to use - your only option when taking them off (slowly), is to stick them in your pocket - where they pick up all manner of fluff, lint, and dust - which ends up all over your bins / lenses. Completely unacceptable. Wad up Swift?!

The inside diameter of the objective covers is 56mm.
The inside diameter of the eyepiece covers is 44mm.
Any suggestions for good, tethered alternatives welcome .

Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro nameplate.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro size compared to A5 book_pic1.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro size compared to A5 book_pic2.JPG Swift Rubbish Untethered Objective Covers versus Zen-Ray Tethered Objective Covers.JPG Swift Rubbish Untethered Eyepiece Covers versus Zen-Ray Tethered Eyepiece Rainguard.JPG


Chosun :gh:
 
Last edited:
Atrocious attention to glare control design detail inside Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED porro prism binocular. Just as well it's only a $99 bin! The result this has, is easy to see in the picture of the view from the eyepiece - better than the allbino's test result - but only just! (included for comparison). Still a Very Poor result at this price point. Compare the Swift to the much better picture from the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3.

Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Poor internal finish_pic1.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Poor internal finish_pic2.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Internal Reflections viewed from Eyepiece end.JPG 629_swift_ed_ol.jpg Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3 Internal Reflections viewed from Eyepiece end.JPG




Chosun :gh:
 
Last edited:
...... FFS ....... $#^&@%! DUST SPECKS ON PRISMS ..... WTF Swift !!!!!!!!!!!

Well, we started out with The Good, :t: The Bad, :-C and The Ugly. :C

The lead actor is the same, but now we have the sequel ......... "Unforgiven" :-@

No Awards for this one though ......

A closer inspection in good light confirmed the worst - specks on internal glass surfaces (looks like the prisms)

UNFORGIVEABLE. ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL. :storm:

A few pics of the internal quality that Swift deems fit for sale, with its Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED porro prism

Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Unforgiveable Internal Dust Specks on Prism.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Bright Metal Poor internal finish_pic1.JPG Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Bright Metal Poor internal finish_pic2.JPG


So what we are left with is $1000 optics, in a $350 mechanical package, with $99 internal glare control design work and execution (if bright metal file marks are even acceptable at that level); AND SPECKS ON INTERNAL GLASS SURFACES !!!!!!!!!!!!

My strong recommendation is that this is NOT a binocular that can be purchased based on the reputation of the "Brand", with any confidence, sight unseen (such as via internet from other countries). By all means, if you are able to get your hands on multiple samples which you can personally check for internal specks, metalwork butchery, and find a focuser to your satisfaction (this one's superb, even if the close focus is 50% more than listed), then go ahead - if the optical formula is to your liking (most similar to an ABK Zeiss FL) you'll be more than happy with "The Good". I hope you fluke one with decently clean "guts" - Do remember to budget for some decent accessories though .......


Looks like I'll have to find a way to scratch this "fakery" off my bin though ...... this name's not worth a cracker :storm:
Swift 820 Audubon 8.5x44 ED Porro Badge.JPG


Chosun :gh:
 
Last edited:
Chosun,
I got to talk to you about those specks, those are a serious matter, you can't mess around with those things. Here is what you gotta do, or this will spread.

Stab through both objectives with a dagger of the finest silver. Burn, until consumed, over a fire from the wood of the Dragon's Blood tree. Sprinkle the ashes onto a toad at midnight.

It works. That's what I do with Leicas, which have similar specks. I buy em up and rid the world of them one by one. My old dagger is about wore out though, BK-7 being a lot harder than silver.
Ron
 
Ron, :-O I wish it was that simple!

This is no laughing matter =( .......
unfortunately, my capacity for humour in relation to this is inversely proportional to the number of specks present ...... (exponentially so)!


Given the fluorescent nature of the photo taken - I'm a bit worried that the specks might be radioactive fallout!! :eek!:



Chosun :storm:
 
Last edited:
Field Notes

The Audubons have been out on a few casual strolls around the wetlands, and an epic bush-bashing exploratory trek up a river tributary, in an effort to see if they can earn a permanent gig at the house of Juan.

In a variety of conditions, some clear practical usage pro's /con's have emerged.

Pro's:
In close-in, dense, riverside shrubbery, the Swifts show great dof, brightness and clarity, and the fast focuser is ideal. The fov is wide, and the bins 'point' really well. They are ideal for finding /following gee-whizzits, and the smaller porro image scale is suitably realistic. After looking through these, you would have to largely wonder, what all the 7x fuss is over.

In woodland canopy, or longer lakeshore viewing, the clarity, and faithful colour rendition, make for great viewing. The image scale gets back toward where it should, and the ever-so-imperceptably muted blues aid the birds to 'pop' out in the image. Looking at a rainbow bee-eater, the colours are well represented, with the yellows ever-so-slightly 'brighter', and the blues showing no 'artificial saturation pop'.

At longer distances (circling raptors, moonshots, etc) the extra dof is appreciated. I've nutted out a stable grip suitable for very large hands (two end fingers wrapped around the objective barrels, and braced against the body), which allows an offset push-pull focuser operation with the middle fingers. If the wrists are rotated down so that the forefingers just butt one another, and the thumbs are offset after circling under, to brace on the inside of each prism housing side, then a stable grip ensues which nearly, but not quite equals that available on an open-hinge design. I was able to clearly see the four moons of Jupiter the other night.

At all distances, resolution is around about a wash with the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3 - so kudos to the Zen for sticking neck and neck with the Swift.

Even though the Swift shows a brightness (and image quality around this dusk period) advantage over the Zen 8x43 ED3 up until just after sunset, during the remainder of the 'gloaming', it's pretty much even stevens in brightness and image quality. The 1mm objective diameter and ~3% transmission advantage of the Swift, by then, eventually succumb to the 0.2mm smaller exit pupil diameter compared to the Zen. Under midnight, near full moonlight conditions, the race is pretty much a dead heat in terms of brightness and image quality.

Con's:
The ER is just a bit short for me (needing around 19mm), and I'm probably losing 5 - 10% or more, of the fov, which is annoying.

At middling - longer distances, the image scale still doesn't quite cut the mustard.

Glare, although roughly on par with the Zen ED3, can wash out the image evenly over the whole fov in certain trying circumstances. At other times, the ususal ED3-type crescent appears at the edge of the view as bright light sources approach within 30°.

I did notice missing picking up some still birds on the edge of the fov with the Swift, until they moved, in comparison with the Zen ED3 (the wider fov visible may have helped here).

The ridiculous (and well over spec) 15ft close focus, caused a few missed views of lbj's close-in (luckily no newbies else I'd av been well p'd off).

The rubber armouring around the prism housings has now taken on a distinctly slippy - slidy feeling. Not sure if it was exactly the same type as the barrels when it first lobbed here - but the soft, grippy, tactility was identical when new.

The "rubbish" untethered obj / eyepiece covers remain a complete and utter pain, and will often see the bin left on the shelf when ducking out for shorter jaunts, or to hang the washing out etc. Totally impractical. For shame Swift.

Even though I've found a pretty good grip with my bear-sized paws, those with smaller hands may stuggle, and will more than likely be more 'wings-out' than preferrable.

On closer examination, some flex in the bridge mechanism can be deliberately induced (pushing down on eyecups - which then pivot about the central shaft) ...... I can't think of a time in practical use in which this would be a factor. If you are using the bins without glasses, and have the eyecups fully up, or in an intermediate position, then any great degree of pushing will result in the less than precise eyecups collapsing. When used with glasses, then, although I press somewhat firmly to maximise fov (not entirely successfully), any more force would be likely to cause possible damage to your spectacle frames, so normal flexing would be minimal. The degree of this movement is less than on other porros I have.

Unforgiveable:
Those damn internal glass surface specks! :storm:
In daylight, there are 1/2 a dozen easily visible on each side.
Scrutiny with a torch shows about 10~12 on each side.
Other companies have been crucified for a measly (but still rightly unacceptable) two specks - so what the bl**dy hell is going on Swift?
(The defence council has been damnably silent!)

Much mental to'ing and fro'ing has taken place over the fate of this bin .....

The plan was to do some eyecup (for greater ER), and maybe body (leather - ya vul herr frauline!) mods, and have this as a long term keeper. However, the specks change all that, and this bin has been convicted, and is on death row ........ only a last minute appeal can save it.


Chosun :gh:
 
Last edited:
So what we are left with is $1000 optics, in a $350 mechanical package, with $99 internal glare control design work and execution (if bright metal file marks are even acceptable at that level); AND SPECKS ON INTERNAL GLASS SURFACES !!!!!!!!!!!!

Chosun :gh:

Well, your experience recapitulates the core weakness of contract binocular manufacture. The buyer, Swift, specifies an excellent optical design but does not have corresponding control of the mechanical components and assembly. Hence the shortcomings you identify.
Zeiss became an alpha by emphasizing the non optical aspects of the product just as much as the optical elements.
One of these days, some Chinese producer will get religion on this and produce world class optics, but evidently Swift has not gotten the message.
 
Should this Swift Stay or Should it Go ?

There seems to be a "Clash" between straightforward and reasonable quality expectations and the poor unit Swift has delivered ....

C'mon you got to let me know
Should Swift stay or should It go?
If you say It will be fine
I'll keep you til the end of time
So you got to let me know
Quality problems what's the go?

All these specks, specks, specks
You're happy selling them publicly
One speck is white, the next is black
So if you want me off your back
Well come on and let me know
Why do specks ruin the show?

Should Swift stay or should It go now?
Should Swift stay or should It go now?
If It goes postage will be double
And if It stays specks will be trouble
So come on and let me know

This impositions bugging me
que ha sido hecho por los monos
You should replace them for free
a partir de trozos de chatarra brillante
Quality like It's supposed to be
Boo! es sólo lanzados juntos de cualquier manera
Don't you know customers judgements rule?
el control del deslumbramiento es una mierda
Come on and let me know
payasos debe ejecutar la empresa
Should I keep it or send It home?
para que tales travesuras fuera de la puerta

Swifts reputación de calidad es una mentira, y el "nombre" está en el baño. Usted ha sido advertido .....
Should Swift stay or should It go now?
¿por qué los clientes reciben esta basura
Should Swift stay or should It go now?
después de pagar un buen dinero
If It goes postage will be double
si no son las manchas, es la distancia de enfoque cercano salvajemente encima de las especificaciones
And if It stays specks will be trouble
y el peso del cerdo porky es mucho más de lo anunciado
So you gotta let me know
y ¿qué pasa con los accesorios absolutamente basura
Should Swift stay or should It go?
risa! - Hace inutilizable la papelera, no vale 5 centavos de dólar por no hablar de $ 500

Should Swift stay or should It go now?
Control de calidad Swifts es una broma
If It goes postage will be double
más allá de la especificación es malo - es publicidad engañosa
And if It stays specks will be trouble
y ¿qué pasa con esas motas de polvo de sangre en los prismas ópticos
So you gotta let me know
¡Qué vergüenza! Vergonzoso! Imperdonable!
Should Swift stay or should It go?



This is a very good binocular in practical use, sadly let down by design quality and execution problems. Unforgiveable! that's what you are .......

Massive own goal by Swift |:(|


Chosun :gh:


btw, etudiant, serial # label has "Japan" written on it. No other information provided ..... maybe it's just the serial # label that is made in Japan? (or maybe it describes the colour - it is 'black' after all!) :eek!:
The Quality of this unit is definitely Not something you would normally associate with Japan ..... the Congo maybe?! (I suspect actual monkeys working for real peanuts!)
 
Last edited:
This impositions bugging me
que ha sido hecho por los monos
You should replace them for free
a partir de trozos de chatarra brillante
Quality like It's supposed to be
Boo! es sólo lanzados juntos de cualquier manera
Don't you know customers judgements rule?
el control del deslumbramiento es una mierda
Come on and let me know
payasos debe ejecutar la empresa
Should I keep it or send It home?
para que tales travesuras fuera de la puerta

Swifts reputación de calidad es una mentira, y el "nombre" está en el baño. Usted ha sido advertido .....
Should Swift stay or should It go now?
¿por qué los clientes reciben esta basura
Should Swift stay or should It go now?
después de pagar un buen dinero
If It goes postage will be double
si no son las manchas, es la distancia de enfoque cercano salvajemente encima de las especificaciones
And if It stays specks will be trouble
y el peso del cerdo porky es mucho más de lo anunciado
So you gotta let me know
y ¿qué pasa con los accesorios absolutamente basura
Should Swift stay or should It go?
risa! - Hace inutilizable la papelera, no vale 5 centavos de dólar por no hablar de $ 500

Should Swift stay or should It go now?
Control de calidad Swifts es una broma
If It goes postage will be double
más allá de la especificación es malo - es publicidad engañosa
And if It stays specks will be trouble
y ¿qué pasa con esas motas de polvo de sangre en los prismas ópticos
So you gotta let me know
¡Qué vergüenza! Vergonzoso! Imperdonable!
Should Swift stay or should It go?

Hilarious, Juan. Among my favorites in this, um, musical review is "el control del deslumbramiento es una mierda." :-O

David
 
Chosun,

Google Translate probably doesn't do it justice but it gave me a good chuckle. Well done.

David
 
The Swift responds:

This indecision's bugging me
If you don't want me, just return me
How many specks are one too many?
Don't you know tethered caps will fit me?
Come on and let me know
Am I good or do I blow?
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 11 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top