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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

"Swarovski 8.5x42 SV" or "Zeiss 8x42 HT" ? (1 Viewer)

Those unnerved by the lack of anything relevant to the original subject of this thread may want to visit Post 1472 on the Here are the New Victories thread, where there is an actual comparison of SV and HT.

Meanwhile on here, normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.

Lee
 
Well that's a new one. Never hear of AAHs before (ass-averse hawks) but trust you to have them.

You are welcome to find out if this clears your back yard of unwelcome predators, but beware, the smell will probably clear your front yard of everyone else too, including the mail man and the man from the IRS. Ah, now I see where you are coming from...

We had Mr Ed over here in the UK too and as a nipper I must say I liked Ed a lot more than that whiney and barky Lassie.

Have you heard? There are folks on here complaining this thread has lost its way. Meh.

Lee

LOL!
 
Just watch how you type in "Owl" in google when you do the search. Don't get all creative, as Pileatus did, or you will get some interesting results CJ.

;)

On a more serious note, James is correct. The only reason I know about the inflatable owl decoy is because we use them up at the local hawkwatch to get the birds to come in exceptionally close. There is nothing like watching a Sharpie or Merlin suddenly "pop up" 20 feet in front of you as it attempts to attack the owl.

On the other hand, it may be distracted enough by the owl to ignore the songbirds for awhile.

;)

Frank,

Uh hum... you were the first person to recommend I buy owl decoys!

But so did the game commission biologist and the BOP expert at Shavers Creek Environmental Center. The center had an wooden owl figurine in the gift shop, but it was quite expensive since it was hand carved by a local craftsman. Not for a decoy but as a mantlepiece for owl lovers.

Considering the humungous size of the Rough-legged Hawk that took up residence this winter in the kiddie park across the street, it would have to be a Great Horned Owl to match her size.

According to my birding book, rough-legged hawks only winter in Pa. I saw her again for one day in early April when it was still cold, but I haven't seen her since. So I have some time to prepare for her return next winter.

I saw an all white Rough-legged Hawk a couple years ago, hovering over a field at the base of Mt. Nittany. I used to go there to watch hawks, because they were infrequent visitors to my neighborhood, but an uptick in housing and shale development has changed that. Now hawks have been been spotted downtown in the alleyways, looking for mice near the dumpsters.

Cooper's Hawks still stop by now and them but are easily spooked, and the latest visitor has been a Sharp-shinned Hawk - broad wings, long, squarish tail, and identifiable flight pattern of beating wings and glides. Scared one off yesterday with my hawk exorcist - two shiny pie plates attached to line at the end of a fishing pole -- they spin around like Whirling Dervishes and make lots of noise as they bang against each other.

<B>
 
Just go the safe route Brock and get a Great Gray Owl decoy. That oughta scare them.

Either that or see if you can still find one of the Rodan toys that were popular when I was a kid.

;)

Changing times call for new technology, Frank. I'm thinking about buying one of these to chase hawks away.

http://www.complex.com/tech/2013/03/10-cool-drones-you-can-buy-right-now/parrot-ardrone-20#galleryS

Btw, if you click on the images, you will see more drones, some more sophisticated and expensive.

<B>
 
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Frank,

Uh hum... you were the first person to recommend I buy owl decoys!

But so did the game commission biologist and the BOP expert at Shavers Creek Environmental Center. The center had an wooden owl figurine in the gift shop, but it was quite expensive since it was hand carved by a local craftsman. Not for a decoy but as a mantlepiece for owl lovers.

Considering the humungous size of the Rough-legged Hawk that took up residence this winter in the kiddie park across the street, it would have to be a Great Horned Owl to match her size.

According to my birding book, rough-legged hawks only winter in Pa. I saw her again for one day in early April when it was still cold, but I haven't seen her since. So I have some time to prepare for her return next winter.

I saw an all white Rough-legged Hawk a couple years ago, hovering over a field at the base of Mt. Nittany. I used to go there to watch hawks, because they were infrequent visitors to my neighborhood, but an uptick in housing and shale development has changed that. Now hawks have been been spotted downtown in the alleyways, looking for mice near the dumpsters.

Cooper's Hawks still stop by now and them but are easily spooked, and the latest visitor has been a Sharp-shinned Hawk - broad wings, long, squarish tail, and identifiable flight pattern of beating wings and glides. Scared one off yesterday with my hawk exorcist - two shiny pie plates attached to line at the end of a fishing pole -- they spin around like Whirling Dervishes and make lots of noise as they bang against each other.

<B>


A Rough-legged Hawk would be very unlikely to winter in or near a suburban park - this is a bird of wide-open country. The behaviour you mentioned previously is very unlike Rough-leg too - chasing squirrels and very bold. And the Rough-leg is not ''humongous'', it is smaller and of lighter build than a Red-tail, much smaller than a GH Owl.

And there is no such thing as an all white Rough-leg.

And, doesn't matter what type of owl decoy you choose, it will never deter any raptors, more likely attract them.
 
A Rough-legged Hawk would be very unlikely to winter in or near a suburban park - this is a bird of wide-open country. The behaviour you mentioned previously is very unlike Rough-leg too - chasing squirrels and very bold. And the Rough-leg is not ''humongous'', it is smaller and of lighter build than a Red-tail, much smaller than a GH Owl.

And there is no such thing as an all white Rough-leg.

And, doesn't matter what type of owl decoy you choose, it will never deter any raptors, more likely attract them.

To give Brock his due it is quite possible that his description is accurate.

Rough-legged Hawks do winter over in Central PA and throughout PA. Several years ago some were seen very near Hawk Mountain in mid winter down in the farm fields below Bake Oven Knob. I have heard that they are even more common in Central PA.

Wheeler's "Raptors of North America" books note that they average in length and wing span almost exactly the same as Red-tailed Hawks do. See pp 254 and 312 in the Eastern Edition. Plates 404 and 409 in the same edition show pictures of an adult male light morph (lightly marked type) both perched and flying and it could easily be described as "white." It lacks the black carpal patches and is black only on the primary greater coverts.

Bob
 
To give Brock his due it is quite possible that his description is accurate.

Rough-legged Hawks do winter over in Central PA and throughout PA. Several years ago some were seen very near Hawk Mountain in mid winter down in the farm fields below Bake Oven Knob. I have heard that they are even more common in Central PA.

Wheeler's "Raptors of North America" books note that they average in length and wing span almost exactly the same as Red-tailed Hawks do. See pp 254 and 312 in the Eastern Edition. Plates 404 and 409 in the same edition show pictures of an adult male light morph (lightly marked type) both perched and flying and it could easily be described as "white." It lacks the black carpal patches and is black only on the primary greater coverts.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for giving me my "due," which was long overdue. ;)

"Horton" wasn't all white like the hawk I saw near Mt. Nittany, which mooreorless suggested was a Rough-legged Hawk, and he sent me a photo that looked very similar.

This one was more typically colored, brown and white and looked very much like the photo in my birding book, "Birds of the Mid-Atlantic Region and where to find them," by John H. Rappole. There is also a dark "morph" of this hawk.

She fit the description perfectly:

"A large hawk with legs feathered all the way down to the toes; mottled brown and white above; buffy with brown streaks on breast; dark brown belly; white tail with dark subterminal band."

Each bird photo and description is accompanied by a map of where and when they can be found. For the Rough-legged Hawk all of Pennsylvania is shaded as a winter habitat. As to it being found in open areas such as farm fields, grasslands, pastures and salt marshes (which it says in the book), that's probably not during winter season. But the three acres of woods across from the house are divided between a large open ball field. When she wasn't hunting squirrels in the park, she sat on a branch on either side of the ball field. At night, she slept at the far edge of the park near the street.

As I said earlier, land development in this part of Central PA is putting pressure on BOP and displacing them from woodland and farmlands that are now being turned into housing developments and shale gas fields and driving them into the suburbs where birds and squirrels are easy pickins.

Plus the ground was covered with snow for most of this long winter. In the winter of 2011-2012, we didn't have any snow accumulation in Jan., Feb, or March. I've lived here 12 years and we've never had any winter resident hawk of any kind.

"Horton" was a female. I saw her next to her mate perched on the same branch. She was about 25% bigger than her mate. She was so big one neighbor thought she was an eagle. but she wasn't that large, I've seen a female eagle from about 30 ft. away at Fisherman's Paradise, and she was gargantuan (the male waiting for her near the nest looked puny in comparison), but the R-L hawk was quite big compared to most of the other hawks that I've seen around here, though she wasn't as big as a Great Horned Owl. I've seen one of those up close in a cage at Shavers Creek. I meant that I'd need an owl bigger than her to scare her off because she was fearless.

Which also fits this behavior description:

"A winter visitor to southern Ontario, the Rough-legged Hawk shows less fear of people than other raptors, probably due to the fact it has less contact as it breeds in the far north."

But forget the descriptions, let "Horton" speak for herself. Here she is holding the infamous chicken leg in her talons while perched in the kiddie park.

<B>
 

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Red-tail, immature by the pale eye. Note also the large, heavy bill [much smaller in RL] belly band of streaks and the short [doesn't reach the tail-tip] primary extension.

Here are a few good shots of Rough-legged Hawks....

http://www.utahbirds.org/birdsofutah/BirdsL-R/RoughLeggedHawk.htm

Note the much smaller, finer bill, the solidly dark belly, the diffuse streaking on the head, and the longer primary extension in all. Although the RL is nearly the same size as a Red-tail, it is a much more lightly built bird. They are often seen perched on the top of thin branches and can hover more effortlessly than the heavier Red-tail.

That and a Rough-leg probably wouldn't be eating KFC either.;]

You can pull all sorts of nuggets out of texts to fit whatever ID you purport, but in the end, you need to know your birds.
 
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To give Brock his due it is quite possible that his description is accurate.

Rough-legged Hawks do winter over in Central PA and throughout PA. Several years ago some were seen very near Hawk Mountain in mid winter down in the farm fields below Bake Oven Knob. I have heard that they are even more common in Central PA.

Wheeler's "Raptors of North America" books note that they average in length and wing span almost exactly the same as Red-tailed Hawks do. See pp 254 and 312 in the Eastern Edition. Plates 404 and 409 in the same edition show pictures of an adult male light morph (lightly marked type) both perched and flying and it could easily be described as "white." It lacks the black carpal patches and is black only on the primary greater coverts.

Bob

Brock is wrong.
 
Brock is wrong.

Brocks 2nd sentence makes it clear that "Horton" is not the all white hawk he saw earlier at Mt. Nittany.

Horton, the one he shows in the photograph, looks good far a Red-tail with a full crop but we can't see the tarsi. Nobody can mistake it for white.

Bob
 
Red-tail, immature by the pale eye. Note also the large, heavy bill [much smaller in RL] belly band of streaks and the short [doesn't reach the tail-tip] primary extension.

Here are a few good shots of Rough-legged Hawks....

http://www.utahbirds.org/birdsofutah/BirdsL-R/RoughLeggedHawk.htm

Note the much smaller, finer bill, the solidly dark belly, the diffuse streaking on the head, and the longer primary extension in all. Although the RL is nearly the same size as a Red-tail, it is a much more lightly built bird. They are often seen perched on the top of thin branches and can hover more effortlessly than the heavier Red-tail.

That and a Rough-leg probably wouldn't be eating KFC either.;]

You can pull all sorts of nuggets out of texts to fit whatever ID you purport, but in the end, you need to know your birds.
I agree...immature Red-tailed.
 
Thanks Brock, Frank et al. for the advanced discussion on:

"Swarovski 8.5x42 SV" or "Zeiss 8x42 HT".

Must say, unfortunately, a bit too advanced for me.
 
Brocks 2nd sentence makes it clear that "Horton" is not the all white hawk he saw earlier at Mt. Nittany.

Horton, the one he shows in the photograph, looks good far a Red-tail with a full crop but we can't see the tarsi. Nobody can mistake it for white.

Bob

Definitely not a red-tail. I saw her perched from the back and front and flying overhead dozens of times over those six weeks of terror, and she had no red color in her tall.

What you can't see in my photo is the dark band around her belly, which is partially hidden by the tree branch, but you can see the brown mottling that extends upward from it. Otherwise, the photo closely matches this Audubon shot:

http://eastsideaudubon.org/birding/birding_resources/gallery/raptors/rough-legged-hawk-buteo-lagopus-1/images/rough-legged-hawk.jpg

I've seen plenty of red-tails and they are easy to ID because of their fanned red tail, and they are plentiful in central Pa. and a permanent resident in the state. Horton was only wintering here.

This is what she looked like when she pounced on the squirrel in the park:

http://www.gschneiderphoto.com/gallery3/birds/raptors/rough-legged-hawk/rough-legged-hawk-pouncing-on-prey-tight-crop_6506

And this is what she looked like flying overhead (except she had two primary wing feathers missing in her right wing):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/3311454663_7b1d01f8df_o.jpg

I'm surprised that even after showing her photo, and there's no mistaken this is the exact hawk I'm talking about because of the chicken leg in her talon, James is still skeptical.

Then again, there are people who think that man never walked on the moon. I know they did, because I can see the American flag through my 600x Jason 50mm telescope (of course, with that small an exit pupil, it could be a floater in my eye like Lowell's canals. ;)

Anyway, deadlines up the ying yang this week, so as Colin Quinn used to say, "That's my story and I'm sticking to it."

<B>
 
Definitely not a red-tail. I saw her perched from the back and front and flying overhead dozens of times over those six weeks of terror, and she had no red color in her tall.

What you can't see in my photo is the dark band around her belly, which is partially hidden by the tree branch, but you can see the brown mottling that extends upward from it. Otherwise, the photo closely matches this Audubon shot:

http://eastsideaudubon.org/birding/birding_resources/gallery/raptors/rough-legged-hawk-buteo-lagopus-1/images/rough-legged-hawk.jpg

I've seen plenty of red-tails and they are easy to ID because of their fanned red tail, and they are plentiful in central Pa. and a permanent resident in the state. Horton was only wintering here.

This is what she looked like when she pounced on the squirrel in the park:

http://www.gschneiderphoto.com/gallery3/birds/raptors/rough-legged-hawk/rough-legged-hawk-pouncing-on-prey-tight-crop_6506

And this is what she looked like flying overhead (except she had two primary wing feathers missing in her right wing):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/3311454663_7b1d01f8df_o.jpg

I'm surprised that even after showing her photo, and there's no mistaken this is the exact hawk I'm talking about because of the chicken leg in her talon, James is still skeptical.

Then again, there are people who think that man never walked on the moon. I know they did, because I can see the American flag through my 600x Jason 50mm telescope (of course, with that small an exit pupil, it could be a floater in my eye like Lowell's canals. ;)

Anyway, deadlines up the ying yang this week, so as Colin Quinn used to say, "That's my story and I'm sticking to it."

<B>
Brock,

Immature Red-tailed hawks do not have a red tail.
Google and you shall find...

Here's a useful series...
http://bironandrussobirds.blogspot.com/2012/09/red-tailed-hawk.html
 
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"That's my story and I'm sticking to it." Brock, nice story, but a bit difficult |:S| to make out clearly in it the answer to: "'Swarovski 8.5x42 SV' or 'Zeiss 8x42 HT'?" Lee, your very recent attempts to elucidate this also were a bit too indirect |:S| for me. Frank, noted. After your deletions posterity might wonder what I meant |:S| in my last post but quotes of your comments within Mark's posts should give a clue |^|. PS Just saw that Mark's posts too are gone! Oh well, posterity will find a way |=\|.
 
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Definitely not a red-tail. I saw her perched from the back and front and flying overhead dozens of times over those six weeks of terror, and she had no red color in her tall.

What you can't see in my photo is the dark band around her belly, which is partially hidden by the tree branch, but you can see the brown mottling that extends upward from it. Otherwise, the photo closely matches this Audubon shot:

http://eastsideaudubon.org/birding/birding_resources/gallery/raptors/rough-legged-hawk-buteo-lagopus-1/images/rough-legged-hawk.jpg

I've seen plenty of red-tails and they are easy to ID because of their fanned red tail, and they are plentiful in central Pa. and a permanent resident in the state. Horton was only wintering here.

This is what she looked like when she pounced on the squirrel in the park:

http://www.gschneiderphoto.com/gallery3/birds/raptors/rough-legged-hawk/rough-legged-hawk-pouncing-on-prey-tight-crop_6506

And this is what she looked like flying overhead (except she had two primary wing feathers missing in her right wing):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/3311454663_7b1d01f8df_o.jpg

I'm surprised that even after showing her photo, and there's no mistaken this is the exact hawk I'm talking about because of the chicken leg in her talon, James is still skeptical.

Then again, there are people who think that man never walked on the moon. I know they did, because I can see the American flag through my 600x Jason 50mm telescope (of course, with that small an exit pupil, it could be a floater in my eye like Lowell's canals. ;)

Anyway, deadlines up the ying yang this week, so as Colin Quinn used to say, "That's my story and I'm sticking to it."

<B>


Just let it go Brock - this is an immature Red-tail. I'll give you 10 to 1 odds, for $1000.00. So, buck up if you have the stomach for it.

''I'm surprised that even after showing her photo, and there's no mistaken this is the exact hawk I'm talking about because of the chicken leg in her talon, James is still skeptical.''

I'm still skeptical because your picture is an immature Red-tail - send it over to the bird ID forum and see for yourself. The ID is birding 101, the differences are so vast and glaring that only the most inexperienced can make these mistakes.

''Definitely not a red-tail. I saw her perched from the back and front and flying overhead dozens of times over those six weeks of terror, and she had no red color in her tall.''

Another rookie mistake - immature Red-tails have brownish/gray tail with thin banding, no ''red'' until the 2nd pre-basic moult, in the 2nd fall.

Sometimes you just need to admit things and move on - I've been lead hawk counter for 10 years on numerous renewable energy projects [and trained others to do the same] in Ontario and birding for 40, and I'm afraid that I'm not going to be drawn into a debate with someone that can't tell a Chimney Swift [in winter of all things!] from a Kestrel.

And, just to add, in 40 years I have never seen a RL try to take on a Gray Squirrel or terrorize a suburban kiddie park or ever seen one in which an experienced birder would ever call ''all white'' despite the rationalizing here. Basically everything written above is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Brock, pull out a birdbook, get out there more often and build your experience - then you can put up a vigorous defense over an ID. Until then, admit your mistake and move on...
 
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Brocks 2nd sentence makes it clear that "Horton" is not the all white hawk he saw earlier at Mt. Nittany.

Horton, the one he shows in the photograph, looks good far a Red-tail with a full crop but we can't see the tarsi. Nobody can mistake it for white.

Bob

We don't need to see the tarsi, everything about this bird is plainly 1st basic [1st cycle] Red-tailed Hawk. Everything.
 
I should add that this bird would have been clearly identifiable as a Red-tail through the Zeiss HT, due to it's superior stray light control.......;]
 
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