Do you ignore Leica ? (2 Viewers)

This may seem a strange question, but whenever I`v been at an optics outlet in the past couple of years the dealers tell me the same things, "Leica are out of touch", "Leica have dropped the ball", "Unless a person asks to try a Leica, I don`t even open the cabinet", this seems a shame.

Some of you may know I bought an 8x42 UVHD earlier this year after much deliberation and demoing, and using it extensively has re-enforced my decision, I love the compactness, the quality and easy view.

I won`t be upset if you wish to give Leica a hiding for not following the flat field low distortion herd, I`m just wondering if the dealers are the ones out of touch and should plonk a Leica in front of perspective purchasers rather than keeping them locked in the cabinet.

Possibly like you, I was entirely unable to resist a discount to near half price.
For me, the choice of 7x42 is very limited, the UVHD is a great performer and a compact format.
Whilst out at RSB Leighton Moss a few times, looking at what is around the necks of other birders, Leica are uncommon, perhaps a few BA/BN, Zeiss are similarly scattered, but Swaro is everywhere. I may have missed that half price sale?

Cluster, the discount was very attractive, but I would have gone for the HD+ anyway.

Dealers will know more about this than me but I believe Leica didn't do themselves any favours when they chose to not make them available on SOR.

This meant they weren't even available in the cabinet in my local RSPB reserve when they had been previously.

It has come full circle though as they have recently now become available and we are getting back to the "good old days", where they now have Swaro, Zeiss and Leica binoculars with a presence for people to try in field conditions. Maybe Leica or Viking who supply the RSPB have a new arrangement.

No, I definitely don't ignore Leica, as a matter of fact, I've bought a new Trinovid 8x42 and I totally love it.

I was looking for a replacement (call it a "midpriced upgrade") of our Zeiss Terra ED, which I had sold to my dad.
Went to the store with a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42 in mind, and actually didn't pay much attention to the Trinny, as the price came too close to the new Swaro SLC. (Which I already had owned until I traded it in for a EL8x32SV.)

Tried the Conquest HD, pretty nice optics, but the E.R. didn't work for me. Lots of kidney beaning because of too short eyecups.
Out of curiousity, I asked about the Trinny which was standing next to it. The salesman told me there was a cashback promotion on the Trinny of 200€. Now it's getting interesting.
Took it outside, together with the Conquest, and that was a no brainer in favour of the Leica. Quite a difference to me.

Compared it to the new SLC as well, and the differences were smaller to me than the 450€ price gap could make up for.

Yes, the SLC is a little bit brighter, and the FOV is a bit wider, but I really loved the color saturation and contrast of the Leica. Sharpness is on a par between the two bins, and both have some CA around the edges, maybe the Leica a little bit more than the SLC, but not bothersome to me.
What really caught me was the absence of glare of the Leica. Very, very well controlled, better than the SLC.

Ergonomics of the SLC are a bit better, but the Leica's build quality an appearance seem to be better to me. It feels very solid and robust.
Long story short, I came home with the new Trinovid, and I totally love it.

The EL32SV wil probably see the most use from my wife now, as she found the Trinny to be a bit heavy to use over time. But frankly, I don't give a rats *** because when using the Trinny, I don't have the feeling I am missing something Mighty fine instrument if you ask me. Couldn't be happier with another bin, regardless of price.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still delighted with our SV32, but the Trinny has got other strenghts over the SV, to be exact, glare controll, ease of use because of bigger E.P, contrast, colour saturation, and focuser.
Pro's of the 32SV are size and weight, wide FOV, flat field, absence of CA, ergonomics.

Funny thing is, I had to get used to a "normal" bin after using the flat field SV the last year

Kind regards,

Gijs

I bought a leica 10x42 ultravid HD , which I love for several reasons.
Great compactness and nice colourcontrast and a superb focus drive.
I use the SV of my wife quite regularly as well and both have their strenghts.

Following the pack may not always be a good thing. I wouldnt say they are out of touch, just not trendy.

I have several friends whos opinions I respect, they have bought Leica, when they tell me they are good optics, I listen. Flat field is fine, but means nothing to me in real use. I'd buy one as fast as I would a Swaro or Zeiss.

Lovely forum to hang out; refreshingly civil, no doubt the fine British influence. I spent some time in the Cirencester area, I loved it!

Back to topic. I "feel" closer to Leica than the other 2 big names, used their binoculars for many, many years, but have recently switched to Swaro, and am impressed with quality and speed of communication. Seems like Leica HQ Germany has its nose a tad too high in the air? You decide. A request to SONA will usually result in a same day answer, same with Zeiss; not so much with Leica. I have money burning a hole in my pockets, yearning to buy me a 10x32 alpha - preferably a Leica 10x32 HD PLus, which does not exist yet. A request to Leica USA about a possible introduction into the Plus line-up was finally answered (finally...): yeah maybe, yeah maybe not... I might have asked an unanswerable question I know. Couldn't help but think Leica USA did not feel overly happy with Leica Germany.

I still feel for you, Leica, maybe we meet again, but for now I just ordered the Swaro EL 10x32 after falling in love with the EL 8.5 x 42.

Says my neighbor "I lika my Leica...".

Totally off-topic P.S.: Wished we had Tesco Digestives in Alaska, they are sooooo good!

Having previously owned alpha level glass and then eventually moving on and selling it, Leica is the only alpha that tempts me into thinking I may someday want to own another alpha..... I think they are doing it very right.

CG

I just bought a Leica 7x42 HD+ after comparing it to a Swarovision 8x32 and 8.5x42. I couldn't be happier. It was very close, but overall I preferred the Leica for it's view, design, and handling. No regrets.

Torview said:

This may seem a strange question, but whenever I`v been at an optics outlet in the past couple of years the dealers tell me the same things, "Leica are out of touch", "Leica have dropped the ball", "Unless a person asks to try a Leica, I don`t even open the cabinet", this seems a shame.

Some of you may know I bought an 8x42 UVHD earlier this year after much deliberation and demoing, and using it extensively has re-enforced my decision, I love the compactness, the quality and easy view.

I won`t be upset if you wish to give Leica a hiding for not following the flat field low distortion herd, I`m just wondering if the dealers are the ones out of touch and should plonk a Leica in front of perspective purchasers rather than keeping them locked in the cabinet.

Click to expand...

I just want to give Leica a "hiding," because I've never given anyone a hiding before nor used the word as a verb, so it might be fun.

Salespeople want to push the latest and greatest, whether it's binoculars or a car. No salesperson is going to say, "Pssst! Forgot about paying a premium for SV EL or Zeiss SF" (if and when they hit the stores) and point you to an original UV demo and tell you, the HD glass adds expense but doesn't really make much difference in controlling CA, according to allbinos and our customers.

Once they realized you were one of those diehard Leica fans, I'm surprised they didn't try to push the UV HD PLUS on you...unless they didn't have that model, which is why they might have tried to steer you elsewhere to a higher priced bin.

As a rule of thumb, never trust a salesman farther than you can throw him with your thumb.

Brock

Brock !, you`v never given Swaro a "good-hiding" on these pages before ?

It also depends where you are. In Germany, most decent optics stores stock Leica, along with Zeiss and Swaro.

I think the lower presence of Leica in US stores simply reflects the amount of effort the companies put into marketing. The US hunting and birding market is certainly one of the main markets for Swarovski, while for Leica the main market is camera enthusiasts worldwide and luxury shoppers in Asia. I guess this is reflected proportionally in the marketing budgets.

Compared to the fuzz Swaro and Zeiss made when they introduced the SV or HTs, Leica made zero effort anouncing the updates of the UV.

The updates themselves also reflect the situation. Swaros and Zeiss new developments were driven very much by marketing arguments, always attemting to be better than the rest at least in some specs (sharpest edges, widest field, highest transmission etc.). Leica simply keeps updating a well proven design, but not bettering anyone in specs.

It can be read in the threads on the UV HD+, that the result of Leica's approach, in the hands, on the eyes, in the field, seems to be quite good. It's just not so spectacular in spec sheets and so easy for vendors in the shops to tout.

There doesn't seem to be much point in Leica making a lot of hoop-la over the incremental improvement of their HD glass to HD Plus glass in just their 42mm series of binoculars. The improvement is there for people who need it. The ones who don't need it won't notice it. It isn't a major overhaul like Swarovski and Zeiss made to theirs.

After all, Leica still sells these binoculars in the 42mm format without any HD glass at all in their special "Blackline" edition which have the standard HDC (High Durable Coatings) coatings.

Bob

ceasar said:

There doesn't seem to be much point in Leica making a lot of hoop-la over the incremental improvement of their HD glass to HD Plus glass in just their 42mm series of binoculars. The improvement is there for people who need it. The ones who don't need it won't notice it. It isn't a major overhaul like Swarovski and Zeiss made to theirs.

Click to expand...

1. They didn't just change the 42mm bins. The 50mm bins are also HD Plus by now.

2. From the information that's available they didn't just change the coatings. They changed the glas types as well.

3. The difference between HD and HD Plus binoculars is far more visible than you seem to think. In fact, it's pretty obvious - and not just to people who "want" to see such differences.

Hermann

I am a potential customer for the Leica HD Plus 7x42, but not just yet.

My interest lies first and foremost in the use, then the specification, then the ergos, then the view, the brand is virtually irrelevant although I will always look for a bin that won't break if I drop it !

Best wishes,

Hermann said:

1. They didn't just change the 42mm bins. The 50mm bins are also HD Plus by now.

2. From the information that's available they didn't just change the coatings. They changed the glas types as well.

3. The difference between HD and HD Plus binoculars is far more visible than you seem to think. In fact, it's pretty obvious - and not just to people who "want" to see such differences.

Hermann

Click to expand...

They put Schott HT glass in the HD Plus according to B&H Photo in NYC.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1084488-REG/leica_40092_7x42_ultravid_binocular_hd.html

B&H says that the HD is no longer available so it is not surprising that it is in the 50mm versions now, which Leica hasn't done much to publicize either.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/519033-USA/Leica_40294_10x42_Ultravid_HD_Binocular.html

As for the rest, that is your opinion. I am quite satisfied with my 8x42 Ultravid Blackline and do not feel handicapped at all in using it. If I should visit Europe with it do you think I should hide it under my coat?

Bob

Leica first and foremost earns their money by selling very succeful last decades digital cameras for ridiculos money.

Whether or not binoculars amount for anything at Leica, I dont know. But which of the other great Alpha makers would ignore the Perger prisma the way Leica does?

I think there's only one reason I've used the Zeiss 8x32 FL all these years instead of the Leica 8x32 UV: eye relief.

At 16mm ER, the Zeiss just squeaks by with my glasses. The Leica at 13.3 was too short to be comfortable. If it weren't for that, I have to say I liked the UV better. I've always liked the look of Leica as well. Classy and understated.

But then along came the SV with 20mm ER and the case was closed. It just works so well with glasses.

So, if Leica could work on getting some more ER across the board that would really help. So many birders, probably the majority, are four-eyes.

Interestingly, I can get by with my 8x20 UV with 15mm ER pretty well thanks to the almost flush eyecups. But again, the Swaro 8x25 Pocket is easier with 17mm.

Four-eyes for life,
Mark

Torview said:

Brock !, you`v never given Swaro a "good-hiding" on these pages before ?

Click to expand...

Well, I can say that those stiff and harder to turn in one direction Swaro focusers took some "hide" off my fingers.

I will go back into hiding before Mark stomps on me with his One Trick Pony. :gn:

Brock