Why No More High End Porros? (1 Viewer)

F

fleurviola

Member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #1

BTW, I'm a new member; this is my first post.

I need someone to explain to me how the binocular industry has come to a stage where the production of really fine porro prism instruments have faded away, where even nice mid-level binos like the Nikon E II are getting harder to find? A Nikon E 8x30, which I bought new for my wife over 20 years ago, is still giving great views. There are so many advantages to porros - important among them the illusion of three dimensional space - which IMO just can't be bettered by a roof instrument, except perhaps in the most expensive of them. If Zeiss or Swarovski took the pains to produce a great porro-based bin, I have a feeling it would blow their present instruments out of the water. Can someone kindly explain why a more efficient, easier to make, in my view superior, optical system is being lost?

 

C

ceasar

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #2

Hi Fleurviola,

Welcome to Bird Forum:hi:

There are a number of reasons why Porro prism binoculars are out of favor.

In my opinion one of the major reasons, and perhaps the worst reason, for not getting a Porro prism is because they are not water proof. (They can be made water proof.) Most people who use binoculars do not need ones that are waterproof, and since good Porro prism binoculars will cost less than a good roof prism binoculars (And great Porro prism binoculars will cost a heck of a lot less than great roof prism binoculars!) it makes sense to have one.

I do not believe this mind set against non-waterproof binoculars will ever change. Thanks to the internet it is embedded in the psyche of binocular users by now.

Roof prism binoculars also cost more to make than Porro prism binoculars mainly because of their more costly prisms but they are easier to waterproof than Porro prism binoculars and many people find their design easier to hold and use and they generally weigh less than equivalent Porro prism binoculars.

Bob

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2017

D

[email protected]

Well-known member

Supporter

• Dec 22, 2017

• #3

Ceasar's answer basically covers the reasons porro's have fallen out of favor but here is a thread which covers the same subject called "Are Porro's Dead?" It was my thread.:king: It has many comments by a member who was a very big porro promoter and very knowledgeable about them his favorite being the Nikon 8x30 EII.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=208464&highlight=porro+prisms+dead

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2017

Mono

Hi!

Staff member

Supporter

• Dec 22, 2017

• #4

I don't think there are any real technical answers it is just down to market forces. People don't buy them.
Why would a profit driven commercial company go to the expense of developing something nobody is going to buy. The same applies to 6x (and increasingly 7x) binoculars.

 

Troubador

Moderator

Staff member

Supporter

• Dec 22, 2017

• #5

ceasar said:

Hi Fleurviola,

In my opinion one of the major reasons, and perhaps the worst reason, for not getting a Porro prism is because they are not water proof. (They can be made water proof.) Most people who use binoculars do not need ones that are waterproof

Bob

Click to expand...

This is surely true and it doesn't help when folks (me included) don't specify what they mean when they say they want waterproof binos.

It surely is overkill to have binos waterproof to umpteen metres depth of water when for most nature observation purposes they need to keep out at worst heavy rain or even a breaking ocean wave, but not immersion to a depth of several metres. So heavy-rain proof and fogging proof is good. Our experience with porros is decades old (a Swift Audubon and Saragtoga that fogged up in light to medium rain in the UK) and probably isn't relevant any longer.

Lee

 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly

• Dec 22, 2017

• #6

Hey FV , Welcome!

One word: ..... "ergonomics".

You are right that a modern porro by one of the top 'Alpha' dawgs would likely trump their roof offerings ...... in all regards except one: ergonomics. Some people like that 'wings out' hold - most don't. :cat:

Nikon recently tried making a really top porro (well A-K anyway binocular ...... the only thing it is likely to 'blow' 'out' though is the odd rotator cuff !! :eek!: :-O
https://www.allbinos.com/index.php?test=lornetki&test_l=328

It would be really nice to see a thoroughly cutting edge, long ER, EWA (70° AFov), modern interpretation of the Nikon 8x30, & 10x35 EII, SE 8x32 & 10x42, and the Swift Audubon 8.5x44 ED .... surely we all deserve that ! :t:



Chosun :gh:

 

W

wllmspd

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #7

One does have to wonder whether we will reach market saturation, there must be loads of bins out there, many really good ones from yesteryear. If looked after nicely they last for decades. When you have a good pair, there’s little need to get another (are the new ones that much better... ED/HD etc etc)? I am sure I’d want an alpha roof if I let myself look thorough one, they’re lighter and more ergonomic that Porros, but I’m happy with my rangemasters (even if they are a bit weighty).

Peter

 

G

Gijs van Ginkel

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #8

fleurviola, post 1,
Swarovski still makes three different porro binoculars: 8x30, 7x42 and 10x40. They are all waterproof and have their own customer circle, who like them a lot (mostly hunters I assume, but I do not know).
Gijs van Ginkel

 

C

Canip

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #9

„.... who like them a lot (mostly hunters I assume, but I do not know)“

... and binocular geeks like me ;-)

 

S

Stephen Mark

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #10

Dennis thanks for the reminder, I had almost forgotten about Brock. What the heck has happened to him I don't see much that's current.
Steve

 

P

PHA

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #11

Hello fleurviola,

As Gijs says, Swarovski ARE MAKING these, superb, Porro prism binoculars. I have one, my favorite configuration, the GREAT Habicht W GA 10x40 of the last version. And have had 5 of them, older, 1 8x30 and 4 older 10x40. Two of the older 10x40 were not sealed but the other two, was sealed/nitrogen purged (as Swarovski guaranteed).
ALL of them was, and are, SUPERBLY MADE. Period. My last and present one, compared favorably, in my opinion, in its optical qualities and construction with ANY alpha roof prism.
May be the Habicht are not the ideal birding binocular because of its rather long minimum focusing distance, but in ALL its other specifications I think is great!!!

Happy Christmas!

PHA

 

S

Synaps

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #12

PHA said:

....

May be the Habicht are not the ideal birding binocular because of its rather long minimum focusing distance, but in ALL its other specifications I think is great!!!

Click to expand...

I just checked and minimum focus distance is 3,5m to 4m (for the 7x and the 10x respectively). Personally I find such a minimum focus distance fine for birding. If any closer, than I prefer reading glasses

 

D

[email protected]

Well-known member

Supporter

• Dec 22, 2017

• #13

I don't know what happened to Brock. Does anybody?

 

chill6x6

Registered User

Supporter

• Dec 22, 2017

• #14

For me it comes down to eye relief....mostly.

I've tried a few of the better porros...none I have tried have sufficient eye relief. The Swarovski 7X42 below comes CLOSE.

I try not kid myself....the two binoculars pictured with it(all 7X) are miles ahead of it in terms of user-friendliness featuring adjustable eyecups, central diopter adjustment, wider focusing knob, smoother/less effort focusing, etc...

Even though I have a few porros around the house(a couple of Habichts and a Nikon) I know they will never become a part of my primary birding binoculars unless some binocular producer decides to throw a pile of money towards bringing them up to date. I just can't see that happening...

 

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Steve C

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #15

Opticron sells a nice porro, the HR WP. They are internal focusing and have a really nice image. They come in advertised 8 and 10x. They would represent a close thing to a modernized porro prism binocular. However their fov is really stingy. Mine is supposed to be a 10x, but it measures out to 9x with a 300' fov. The 8x is 340 and the 10x is 250. They do appear to be restrictive in the fov. I do not expect any market analysis would support the idea of improving the ocular assembly to widen the fov. Marketers have pretty well promoted all of the advantages of the roof, to the detriment of the porro.

Let me add my welcome to BF as well :t:

 

D

[email protected]

Well-known member

Supporter

• Dec 22, 2017

• #16

Nice pictures, Chuck! It sure is interesting to see those binoculars sitting next to each other for a size comparison. The scenery with the Alabama woods in the back round makes it that more intriguing.

 

Neil G.

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #17

What about steiner binoculars.I have a pair of wildlife pro.....waterproof,fogproof,light and compact,excellent image,ultra close focus,sport focus,ultra tough and far nicer to hold than many roof designs.
Personally i agree with fleurviola,a good pair of porros gives a nicer image.

 

J

jan van daalen

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #18

Neil G. said:

What about steiner binoculars.I have a pair of wildlife pro.....waterproof,fogproof,light and compact,excellent image,ultra close focus,sport focus,ultra tough and far nicer to hold than many roof designs.
Personally i agree with fleurviola,a good pair of porros gives a nicer image.

Click to expand...

Isn't that Porro model a Individual Focus system?

Jan

 

C

ceasar

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #19

chill6x6 said:

For me it comes down to eye relief....mostly.

I've tried a few of the better porros...none I have tried have sufficient eye relief. The Swarovski 7X42 below comes CLOSE.

I try not kid myself....the two binoculars pictured with it(all 7X) are miles ahead of it in terms of user-friendliness featuring adjustable eyecups, central diopter adjustment, wider focusing knob, smoother/less effort focusing, etc...

Even though I have a few porros around the house(a couple of Habichts and a Nikon) I know they will never become a part of my primary birding binoculars unless some binocular producer decides to throw a pile of money towards bringing them up to date. I just can't see that happening...

Click to expand...

Chuck,

Isn't that 1st binocular a Meopta 7x42 rather than a Swarovski 7x42 B? They both have long eye relief. 20mm and 19mm. The Zeiss 7x42 has 16 mm ER.

Nikon's EIIs and SEs would be even better if they got rid of those thin folding rubber eye cups and replaced them with modern hard eye cups that had a couple of positions.

Bob

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2017

M

Maljunulo

Well-known member

• Dec 22, 2017

• #20

ceasar said:

Chuck,

Isn't that 1st binocular a Meopta 7x42 rather than a Swarovski 7x42 B? They both have long eye relief. 20mm and 19mm. The Zeiss 7x42 has 16 mm ER.

Nikon's EIIs and SEs would be even better if they got rid of those thin folding rubber eye cups and replaced them with modern hard eye cups that had a couple of positions.

Bob

Click to expand...

The only waterproof porros I am aware of are individual focus, so live and learn.